TL Mafia XX - Page 26

On March 13 2010 11:28 Zona wrote:
With a public DT list, however, the bus driver could elect to switch someone in that DT list with anyone else. Remember the bus driver doesn't even need for this 'someone else' to be mafia for this to be effective - even if a blue is switched with a green, or a green with a blue, then the DT can be discredited. Or, if people are considering the chance that the DT's check was bus driven, then doubt is thrown on the result of the check, making it a lot less useful.

On March 13 2010 11:59 Bill Murray wrote:
oh, yeah.
too bad i'd end up green or the miller.

On March 13 2010 11:05 Foolishness wrote:Letting the DT's and medics roam free is certainly not beneficial to the town.

Why do you want the medic/DT's acting on their own accord? Problem with forming some sort of town circle eh? Don't like the town being organized? Oh! Perhaps you've adopted the Chezinu style of play where you just try to cause some chaos for shits and giggles.

On March 13 2010 12:01 Bill Murray wrote:
jeejee pmed me telling me to change my vote, and I originally wanted Incognito in power anyways. I voted for BC out of necessity so I can make the mafia waste a hit on me later on.

I guess i've finally convinced people not to trust you, and i'm going to admit something now:

I kind of trust you, L.
Sorry that I was so accusatory with you, I sort of had to do that to keep myself alive.
I feel like you're either townie or the bus driver... only like 10-15% chance of being mafia.

On March 13 2010 11:28 Zona wrote:
Have you thought through the implications of the mafia bus driver role? This is no ordinary mafia game where a public DT/medic list *might* be beneficial. Alone, and without public DT/medic lists, the mafia bus driver (who does not begin knowing his/her mafia teammates) cannot really use the power effectively. The power cannot be used to protect the mafia or whitewash for them, since the bus drvier doesn't know who they are. And if the bus driver has no idea who the DTs will check, doing a random switch has a very low chance of producing useful results for the mafia.

With a public DT list, however, the bus driver could elect to switch someone in that DT list with anyone else. Remember the bus driver doesn't even need for this 'someone else' to be mafia for this to be effective - even if a blue is switched with a green, or a green with a blue, then the DT can be discredited. Or, if people are considering the chance that the DT's check was bus driven, then doubt is thrown on the result of the check, making it a lot less useful.

A DT choosing his or her own check instead can hopefully find a fellow town member, and then can form a private, trusted discussion group where all participants know that every idea is free from mafia interference, even if they aren't necessarily correct at first.

I do agree that on the whole, the medic power isn't that effective. But once again, having a public medic list that the medics actually follow just allow the mafia to avoid wasting their hits and slowing down their killing of the town, when wasted hits give the town more days, more time to figure out who the mafia are. The medic becomes a ton more powerful if he/she survives to late game because there are a lot fewer people for the mafia and medic to choose from, and thus the chances of their choices coinciding are a lot higher.


Addendum:
+ Show Spoiler +

On March 13 2010 12:04 Foolishness wrote:
The point of the matter is that it's better to have the blue roles organized and under some general plan of action, and not letting them "choose for themselves" as you said. Mafia bus driver is at a severe disadvantage because they do not know the rest of the mafia team. Even say that the DT was going to inspect someone on the list of 3 people Incog gave. If the bus driver chooses to mess it up, they can only mess up ONE of the 3 people. Still a good chance DT's check is going to go through. Also they could accidentally switch with a mafia member, letting the DT check a mafia by mistake. Heck the bus driver could switch a mafia hit onto one of their own.

On March 13 2010 12:02 Zona wrote:
I'll further extend my thoughts on DT strategies, since you seem to be expressing disdain for the ideas of DTs acting on their own.

First, if the DT can get access to a protected mouthpiece to the town (by becoming a protected elected official, or perhaps somehow confirming that a certain elected official is town and proving him/herself to that elected official and then communicating through them), then it's smooth sailing. The DT uses his or her rolechecks to find mafia, then proclaims the finds to the town through the mouthpiece, allowing the town to lynch them. The DT's power contributes a ton to the town's success.

However, if the DT cannot secure such a mouthpiece, it's better early on to find fellow town members, not mafia. If the DT finds a mafia member early in the game in this kind of situation, it often won't be easy to convince the rest of the town to lynch the target without revealing themselves. And revealing leaves the DT a prime target to be nightkilled: if a game is reasonably balanced, the mafia will be able to kill the revealed DT.

However, if the DT finds fellow town members, they can form a private, trusted discussion circle which can become even more useful once the DT starts hunting mafia. Then the circle can work together to lynch the mafia - both in votes and in public arguments, rather than the DT working alone trying to convince the town.

If a DT chooses who to check privately, the chances of his or her results being inaccurate are low. The godfather chance is low, and the bus driver chance is low, since the bus driver has no information. If the targets that the DT checks are public however, it's so much easier for the bus driver to make a difference.

So yes, if the DT cannot get elected, I'm advocating that the DT chooses who the check on his or her own (and check for potential TOWN members, not mafia, at least in the early game). As the godfather can be chosen AFTER the election in this game, the mafia actually as a great chance of faking a 'town' DT result on an elected official so the 'confirm a protect mouthpiece' avenue is also not ideal.


You are using very skewed language here, rather than reasoning.

"Letting the DT's and medics roam free" - as if they were wild animals or something?
"Why do you want the medic/DT's acting on their own accord?" - as if town members thinking on their own is a bad thing?
"Chezinu style of play where you just try to cause some chaos for shits and giggles." - this is a thoroughly unfair comparison. I am arguing against someone's plan and have laid out my reasons on why their proposals were flawed. I don't see how it's even remotely comparable to some other player's history of "cause some chaos for shits and giggles."

On March 13 2010 12:03 L wrote:

Well, doesn't really matter. Both you and JeeJee should probably be our next 2 lynch targets.

If you believed me, and thought i was the driver, you'd want me sitting protected as pardoner. Incog now has the most BLATANTLY OBVIOUS FISHY VOTE TRAIN that I've ever seen.

Bunch of inactives, then a vote swing. Wow.

On March 13 2010 12:12 JeeJee wrote:


yeah i tried my best to start the swing via PMs because i trust incog, i don't trust you, and if you were mafia, changing votes ahead of time with 3 viable candidates pretty much guarantees that they get who they want in via gradual change themselves (or last-minute wagon if they want to look fishy). at this point, i'm sure they didn't get who they wanted in.

but hey if you think i'm mafia and dumb enough to pm random people and ask to change the vote instead of working with my mafia buddies, then what can i say. all mindgamez now

On March 13 2010 12:26 Fishball wrote:
Curious question
L, how old are you.

On March 13 2010 12:38 citi.zen wrote:
Thank you Zona. Finally someone else gets it: the dt is huge in this game, and needs to play ultra safe. The medic is another story, if there is a mafia driver (also huge, as 8've been saying). Don't trust... anyone right now, it's just day 1 (a looooong one, to be sure). Madnessman worries me. Foolishness too. Plus those trying to confuse dts. Also, I continue to be amazed at how articulate bill is this game. Night&day change, how can this be??

On March 13 2010 12:12 JeeJee wrote:


yeah i tried my best to start the swing via PMs because i trust incog, i don't trust you, and if you were mafia, changing votes ahead of time with 3 viable candidates pretty much guarantees that they get who they want in via gradual change themselves (or last-minute wagon if they want to look fishy). at this point, i'm sure they didn't get who they wanted in.

but hey if you think i'm mafia and dumb enough to pm random people and ask to change the vote instead of working with my mafia buddies, then what can i say. all mindgamez now