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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On March 13 2010 12:38 citi.zen wrote:
Thank you Zona. Finally someone else gets it: the dt is huge in this game, and needs to play ultra safe. The medic is another story, if there is a mafia driver (also huge, as 8've been saying). Don't trust... anyone right now, it's just day 1 (a looooong one, to be sure). Madnessman worries me. Foolishness too. Plus those trying to confuse dts. Also, I continue to be amazed at how articulate bill is this game. Night&day change, how can this be??
I'm not worried. You changed your vote 3 times during the day. I'm sure you'll have a different opinion tomorrow, of which I will be ready to do a good ol' nobody cares!
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Hooray!
We got a mayor and a pardoner now
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On March 13 2010 12:41 flamewheel91 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 12:38 citi.zen wrote:
Thank you Zona. Finally someone else gets it: the dt is huge in this game, and needs to play ultra safe. The medic is another story, if there is a mafia driver (also huge, as 8've been saying). Don't trust... anyone right now, it's just day 1 (a looooong one, to be sure). Madnessman worries me. Foolishness too. Plus those trying to confuse dts. Also, I continue to be amazed at how articulate bill is this game. Night&day change, how can this be?? T_T Sorry. I haven't heard anything from BC so we can't go to night until then...
It's all good. My 13h workday is finally over, on the train home, in no hurry since I'll probably crash when I get home anyway. Take your time!
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On March 13 2010 12:42 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 12:12 JeeJee wrote:On March 13 2010 12:03 L wrote:On March 13 2010 12:01 Bill Murray wrote:
jeejee pmed me telling me to change my vote, and I originally wanted Incognito in power anyways. I voted for BC out of necessity so I can make the mafia waste a hit on me later on.
I guess i've finally convinced people not to trust you, and i'm going to admit something now:
I kind of trust you, L.
Sorry that I was so accusatory with you, I sort of had to do that to keep myself alive.
I feel like you're either townie or the bus driver... only like 10-15% chance of being mafia. Well, doesn't really matter. Both you and JeeJee should probably be our next 2 lynch targets. If you believed me, and thought i was the driver, you'd want me sitting protected as pardoner. Incog now has the most BLATANTLY OBVIOUS FISHY VOTE TRAIN that I've ever seen. Bunch of inactives, then a vote swing. Wow. yeah i tried my best to start the swing via PMs because i trust incog, i don't trust you, and if you were mafia, changing votes ahead of time with 3 viable candidates pretty much guarantees that they get who they want in via gradual change themselves (or last-minute wagon if they want to look fishy). at this point, i'm sure they didn't get who they wanted in. but hey if you think i'm mafia and dumb enough to pm random people and ask to change the vote instead of working with my mafia buddies, then what can i say. all mindgamez now  How can. You openly say you "trust incognito" at this point in the game? Even he will tell you right now it's based on... nothing. Maybe faith. I didn't have you picked as the gullible kind.
wow you really want me to spell out the context for you?
i trusted incog more than i trusted L during the election process. and so here we are.
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Enogh to start pm-ing people campaigning for him. Say you are right and L is red. Would it make sense to contact unproven people to convince them of that? What are the chances of reaching out to another red? Why does that not concern you? Lol - oopsie...
I mean "yes please" spell out the context.
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On March 13 2010 12:42 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 12:38 citi.zen wrote:
Thank you Zona. Finally someone else gets it: the dt is huge in this game, and needs to play ultra safe. The medic is another story, if there is a mafia driver (also huge, as 8've been saying). Don't trust... anyone right now, it's just day 1 (a looooong one, to be sure). Madnessman worries me. Foolishness too. Plus those trying to confuse dts. Also, I continue to be amazed at how articulate bill is this game. Night&day change, how can this be?? I'm not worried. You changed your vote 3 times during the day. I'm sure you'll have a different opinion tomorrow, of which I will be ready to do a good ol' nobody cares!
My vote did change, but my approach remained consistent: vote people who claimed blue. So yeah, you can hope I will change my mind. But will it happen? BOO!
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On March 13 2010 12:49 citi.zen wrote:
Enogh to start pm-ing people campaigning for him. Say you are right and L is red. Would it make sense to contact unproven people to convince them of that? What are the chances of reaching out to another red? Why does that not concern you? Lol - oopsie...
I mean "yes please" spell out the context.
silly silly
of course!
if i am right, i probably did get in contact with a red (although to be fair i think i only pm'd like 2 people that voted for L so maybe i didn't), and it's just another way to get them to talk. the more reds talk, the better; should be self-explanatory why this is.
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Silly, yeah. No way they would kill ZYOU if you make a strong case against one of them. After all, you have protection. But I digress.
What was "the context" again?
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On March 13 2010 12:53 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 12:42 Foolishness wrote:On March 13 2010 12:38 citi.zen wrote:
Thank you Zona. Finally someone else gets it: the dt is huge in this game, and needs to play ultra safe. The medic is another story, if there is a mafia driver (also huge, as 8've been saying). Don't trust... anyone right now, it's just day 1 (a looooong one, to be sure). Madnessman worries me. Foolishness too. Plus those trying to confuse dts. Also, I continue to be amazed at how articulate bill is this game. Night&day change, how can this be?? I'm not worried. You changed your vote 3 times during the day. I'm sure you'll have a different opinion tomorrow, of which I will be ready to do a good ol' nobody cares! My vote did change, but my approach remained consistent: vote people who claimed blue. So yeah, you can hope I will change my mind. But will it happen? BOO! I initially voted BC because he claimed to be DT, and a DT in one of the mayoral positions is extremely extremely helpful for the town. When it became clear that BC was definitely going to be mayor, I changed my vote to L, because he implied that he too is a powerful blue, and Incog never seemed to deny that he was a green. HOWEVER, as I was skimming through the posts I had missed, I came across this:
On March 13 2010 08:57 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 07:58 L wrote:On March 13 2010 01:49 Incognito wrote:On March 13 2010 01:32 L wrote:On March 13 2010 01:12 citi.zen wrote:On March 13 2010 00:56 L wrote:On March 13 2010 00:17 johnnyspazz wrote:
L, why haven't you voted? I voted for me. I dunno why that doesn't count anymore. 4. You cannot vote for yourself or anyone dead or outside the game. Also On March 11 2010 09:31 citi.zen wrote:
And L, you still cannot vote for yourself. Not even once, let alone twice. Sorry mate. I can't even remember the last game to allow people to vote for themselves. Weren't you the one accusing everyone of not reading carefully? La-la-la... I know what the rule is, I just think its dumb seeing as it hasn't always been that way. I'll vote later, probably for cobbler. And incog, why would mafia rather you in office rather than me? I know I'm not mafia, I also know I'm generally more active than you, and I've also stated that if I'm getting a role that can't be checked that I'm basically going to kill myself to have a full set of roleclaims. So pretty much no matter what I am, I'm claiming with the intent to prove it shortly thereafter. You, by contrast, are not offering any such game breaking attempts, yet you think mafia is more scared of you than me. But then you admit that you probably have like 3-4 fishy people voting for you. So how does that add up? It doesn't. I've got a paper due in 1.5 hours and I haven't even started formatting it, so I'll be back in 5.5 hours after transit/class is factored in. Uh I didn't say mafia would rather have me in office than you. I said I think they'd prefer to have you in office. The reason is because, as you have already noticed, people are trying to discredit and doubt you. I'd think its much easier to discredit you than me, and thus the mafia might think that they can deal with you better in office than me. I'm not saying mafia will be scared of me, but that it will just be more difficult to get rid of me than you. It was a rhetorical question. Ie, mafia would much rather have you in office sitting around nothing nothing as a green. Your statement here essentially implies that you aren't going actually step up and lead and be held accountable for the results. Somehow I don't see how that's a quality you should have. We already know who the DT is.... You know who's claimed to be the DT. You know he didn't want you to know, and you have no evidence supporting anything beyond that. Once we have a rolecheck or two to confirm his identity, we'll know things for certain. Once again, I'm not green. Why do you keep saying that? Its just like everyone else saying you're DT. I'm not implying that I'm trying to avoid leading. Yay reading comprehension. I'm looking at it from the a likely mafia point of view. You've done a good job painting me green, which may keep me alive once I lose office. Its harder to throw dirt on me. It would be simpler just to kill me. Its just a lot easier to discredit someone who posts abrasively and unclearly. Like you. So just look carefully at the people who vote you then try to plant seeds of doubt. That is all. L seriously, who do you think of lynching if elected mayor? Knowing that Incog. is ALSO claiming blue completely changed my perspective. Because what are the odds that the three most veteran players ARE ALL BLUE?? Between L and Incog. I was torn--was one of them lying? I decided that between L and Incog, L was marginally more suspicious in my eyes, especially with sidesprang voting for him out of nowhere and only saying some stupid post, completely meaningless post:On March 12 2010 16:48 sidesprang wrote:This is my first post, its coming up really late. Sorry about that, FF13 messed up my schoolwork which then again messed up my mafiaposting. I've now read through all the posts, and i ended up voting for L. Beliving he is the best bet for pro-town player. Tho honestly i dont think im capable of spotting scummy behavior this early in the game :S When i analyzed players before i usualy was looking at clues because that was the easiest(altho im usualy wrong there to  ). so I decided to change my vote to Incog. I later saw Zona's post, and wondered if it was a bad idea to impulsively switch to Incog. But with only three minutes left to spare and it still being 5 vs. 7, I figured it didn't matter--L would win pardoner. It turned 9 o clock and I thought voting was over. But then at 9.01 BM changed his vote, and thinking this was all incredibly suspicious, I tried to change mine back...but it was too late.
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I've gotten confirmation from flamewheel. The DT will know who his result corresponds to even if the bus driver is involved. This is different from what my assumption was due to previous experience (see here, for example), so many of my stated fears regarding confusing the DT are not valid in the way I originally envisioned.
However I will still respond to portions of your post, because I rather dislike some parts of it.
On March 13 2010 12:04 Foolishness wrote:
The point of the matter is that it's better to have the blue roles organized and under some general plan of action, and not letting them "choose for themselves" as you said. Being "organized" can mean so many different things. The way you choose to define "organized" (publicized lists of people to use blue powers on) is not the only way for the town to work together, and in any case, "organization" in itself is not necessarily beneficial unless it helps the town's goals, which are to find scum, and keep town members alive. I have laid out in a recent post a specific "plan of action" for DTs which I think is reasonable, which does not involve public DT lists. I have also provided the specific steps in how the plan can possibly proceed, while your argument against it was to vaguely refer to one previous game as an isolated example where something vaguely similar to what I'm proposing did not work out and emphasize "organized" as some sort of mantra, as if it in itself would lead to success.
On March 13 2010 12:04 Foolishness wrote:
If the bus driver chooses to mess it up, they can only mess up ONE of the 3 people. Still a good chance DT's check is going to go through. Even though the fears of DT checks being muddled are no longer relevant, I take issue with your point of view here - the point of view in which you find one in three inaccuracy in a DT check acceptable. I already have a better check than that - I can tell you with 80% accuracy who else is a town member. Just pick any player randomly. I want to point out here that being satisfied with a one in three chance of your DT check being wrong is setting incredibly low standards for what the DT power could do. I hesitate to move forward with this argument, but here it is: only mafia would be happy if the DT check was wrong 1 in 3 of the time.
In any case, this will be my last post on this matter so you can have the last word if you wish, unless you really make some truly outrageous statements. I don't feel that drawing out this discussion any further benefits the town. Too much focus on any one issue or just a few people induces tunnel vision and could lead the town to lose sight of the wider picture, such as the other mafia members out there. We should move on to different issues instead of further dragging this along.
P.S. Every town member who isn't posting: post your thoughts, one way or another. The rest of the town has no way to evaluate you and eliminate you as a mafia suspect unless you contribute something, since there are no clues! Even if you aren't really sure of something, at least take a stand one way or another so that later on we can try to judge your actions to see if you were cooperating with mafia (you weren't, of course) and to see if you had inside information the mafia had (but you don't, of course).
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So I suspiciously voted for the person I wanted to vote for originally? you all make me laugh.
The timing of it was off because I wasn't even thinking "you know, you can totally screw this guy who wanted to lynch you" until JeeJee brought it to my attention.
Tough shit, L. Sorry you didn't get to lynch me. If BC does, that's his decision. I'm going to like him whether he does it or not. If he does lynch me, though, I guaran-fucking-tee you I'm going to be flipping blue, green, or black. Anyone want to step up and put their head on the line for Day 2 if I don't flip red?
I can't trust anyone, because I'm the only person I know is a townie. I have noone.
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going to go lay down... might be back.
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you think Mafia will kill you in your sleep?
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guys i will be away this weekend on a trip much like tree.hugger so forgive me if i don't post or miss a vote. i've already told flamewheel91 and hopefully when BC finally gets back, he will lynch a mafia member cause that would be awesome.
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On March 13 2010 13:10 madnessman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 12:53 citi.zen wrote:On March 13 2010 12:42 Foolishness wrote:On March 13 2010 12:38 citi.zen wrote:
Thank you Zona. Finally someone else gets it: the dt is huge in this game, and needs to play ultra safe. The medic is another story, if there is a mafia driver (also huge, as 8've been saying). Don't trust... anyone right now, it's just day 1 (a looooong one, to be sure). Madnessman worries me. Foolishness too. Plus those trying to confuse dts. Also, I continue to be amazed at how articulate bill is this game. Night&day change, how can this be?? I'm not worried. You changed your vote 3 times during the day. I'm sure you'll have a different opinion tomorrow, of which I will be ready to do a good ol' nobody cares! My vote did change, but my approach remained consistent: vote people who claimed blue. So yeah, you can hope I will change my mind. But will it happen? BOO! I initially voted BC because he claimed to be DT, and a DT in one of the mayoral positions is extremely extremely helpful for the town. When it became clear that BC was definitely going to be mayor, I changed my vote to L, because he implied that he too is a powerful blue, and Incog never seemed to deny that he was a green. HOWEVER, as I was skimming through the posts I had missed, I came across this: Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 08:57 Incognito wrote:On March 13 2010 07:58 L wrote:On March 13 2010 01:49 Incognito wrote:On March 13 2010 01:32 L wrote:On March 13 2010 01:12 citi.zen wrote:On March 13 2010 00:56 L wrote:On March 13 2010 00:17 johnnyspazz wrote:
L, why haven't you voted? I voted for me. I dunno why that doesn't count anymore. 4. You cannot vote for yourself or anyone dead or outside the game. Also On March 11 2010 09:31 citi.zen wrote:
And L, you still cannot vote for yourself. Not even once, let alone twice. Sorry mate. I can't even remember the last game to allow people to vote for themselves. Weren't you the one accusing everyone of not reading carefully? La-la-la... I know what the rule is, I just think its dumb seeing as it hasn't always been that way. I'll vote later, probably for cobbler. And incog, why would mafia rather you in office rather than me? I know I'm not mafia, I also know I'm generally more active than you, and I've also stated that if I'm getting a role that can't be checked that I'm basically going to kill myself to have a full set of roleclaims. So pretty much no matter what I am, I'm claiming with the intent to prove it shortly thereafter. You, by contrast, are not offering any such game breaking attempts, yet you think mafia is more scared of you than me. But then you admit that you probably have like 3-4 fishy people voting for you. So how does that add up? It doesn't. I've got a paper due in 1.5 hours and I haven't even started formatting it, so I'll be back in 5.5 hours after transit/class is factored in. Uh I didn't say mafia would rather have me in office than you. I said I think they'd prefer to have you in office. The reason is because, as you have already noticed, people are trying to discredit and doubt you. I'd think its much easier to discredit you than me, and thus the mafia might think that they can deal with you better in office than me. I'm not saying mafia will be scared of me, but that it will just be more difficult to get rid of me than you. It was a rhetorical question. Ie, mafia would much rather have you in office sitting around nothing nothing as a green. Your statement here essentially implies that you aren't going actually step up and lead and be held accountable for the results. Somehow I don't see how that's a quality you should have. We already know who the DT is.... You know who's claimed to be the DT. You know he didn't want you to know, and you have no evidence supporting anything beyond that. Once we have a rolecheck or two to confirm his identity, we'll know things for certain. Once again, I'm not green. Why do you keep saying that? Its just like everyone else saying you're DT. I'm not implying that I'm trying to avoid leading. Yay reading comprehension. I'm looking at it from the a likely mafia point of view. You've done a good job painting me green, which may keep me alive once I lose office. Its harder to throw dirt on me. It would be simpler just to kill me. Its just a lot easier to discredit someone who posts abrasively and unclearly. Like you. So just look carefully at the people who vote you then try to plant seeds of doubt. That is all. L seriously, who do you think of lynching if elected mayor? Knowing that Incog. is ALSO claiming blue completely changed my perspective. Because what are the odds that the three most veteran players ARE ALL BLUE?? Between L and Incog. I was torn--was one of them lying? I decided that between L and Incog, L was marginally more suspicious in my eyes, especially with sidesprang voting for him out of nowhere and only saying some stupid post, completely meaningless post: Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 16:48 sidesprang wrote:This is my first post, its coming up really late. Sorry about that, FF13 messed up my schoolwork which then again messed up my mafiaposting. I've now read through all the posts, and i ended up voting for L. Beliving he is the best bet for pro-town player. Tho honestly i dont think im capable of spotting scummy behavior this early in the game :S When i analyzed players before i usualy was looking at clues because that was the easiest(altho im usualy wrong there to ). so I decided to change my vote to Incog. I later saw Zona's post, and wondered if it was a bad idea to impulsively switch to Incog. But with only three minutes left to spare and it still being 5 vs. 7, I figured it didn't matter--L would win pardoner. It turned 9 o clock and I thought voting was over. But then at 9.01 BM changed his vote, and thinking this was all incredibly suspicious, I tried to change mine back...but it was too late.
Short version: I switched my vote but thought it wouldn't matter.
Sorry, doesn't work like that.
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I would like to call out L, nemY, and Bloodycobbler for voting for d3_crescentia.
Not being allowed to abstain in votes is a huge plus for town members as votes reveal information that can be used to evaluate a player later in the game.
Yet the three of you subvert that by essentially abstaining by voting for someone who has basically not participated in the game so far. Explain yourselves - why can you not commit to helping the town by leaving a paper trail of your opinion?
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FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
BC come back please T_T
If he doesn't get back before I go to bed...
Well I'll just have to get it in the morning then :/.
But then that's only a 12 hour night.
Oh well we'll see...
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PM from JeeJee. I didn't reply the first time. The only reply I did was the top one asking him if he's aware he's being suspicious as fuck and he's retarded if he's mafia. I dunno. Sorry if you're not mafia JeeJee, but god damn, I figure if you are you pming me this will get me killed anyway.
+ Show Spoiler +To: JeeJee [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: Fw: hey
Date: 3/13/10 15:28
Is it not extremely suspicious mass switching votes before the right at the end? I could just change it now. I really don't get why wait right to the end. This is suspect as fuck JeeJee....But you pming me is kind of retarded if you are mafia....
lol...I dunno...L looks suspect as shit. No lie there.
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Original Message:
hey
i am really not trusting L at the moment, and am anxious to see him not get into office. at the moment it looks like i will be switching to incog to push L out (and I trust incog), since c0bbs looks to be in for a role barring some major changes in the votes
do you agree with my thinking on L?
what do you think about switching votes towards the end (so that if mafia still want to push L in, they'd have to make it pretty obvious instead of gradually shifting over a 10-12 hour timespan)
what do you think?
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Original Message:
i want you to switch votes with me from L to c0bbles at the last minute if it looks like L is going to get in
ok?
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Okay, wait.
In this game, why SHOULDN'T a GF more easily be able to fake DT, if rolechecks aren't returned until morning? Wouldn't GF be able to "check" a corpse after everyone else has found out about it? Obviously it would start to seem less of a coincidence as time goes on but the number of scum tactics is far from exhausted - claiming Bus Driver shenanigans, sacrificing their own members, etc.
This is why I don't like the idea of public check lists - it gives the mafia more information to play with and manipulate us with. I'd rather the DTs do an arbitrary check - say, the player that is two spaces above their name on the first page (crossing over to the bottom if they're near the top) OR SOME OTHER ARBITRARY SYSTEM, don't really care. There's such thing as organization without disclosure.
The other thing that I'm sort of surprised about is that the sheer importance of the DT role should make us very, very suspicious of our elected officials, no matter how good/bad their plans are for town. It's inconceivable that at least one of our candidates (myself excluded) isn't scum, and the fact that all three of them are strong players with some pretty shady tactics during the election should beg closer scrutiny in the days to come.
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EPT
