EPTOn February 28 2012 12:55 Bluelightz wrote:
Our progress pony is not making any progress
Our progress pony is not making any progress
He needs more carrots. Or more sticks. Someone else decide!
TL Mafia Ban List - Page 130
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
He needs more carrots. Or more sticks. Someone else decide! | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22634 Posts
i am requesting a ban against sinani206 for playing against his win condition in werewolf mafia. i think intentionally harming your team should never be acceptable. | ||
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
On February 29 2012 17:32 Palmar wrote: seeing as ciryandor hasnt posted anything about werewolf yet, i guess i will request this directly here. i am requesting a ban against sinani206 for playing against his win condition in werewolf mafia. i think intentionally harming your team should never be acceptable. Is this the right game? his filter He didn't really play against his wincon, as much as he did not play for it. I think we should revise that rule to make people play for the wincon. I support a ban regardless. He talks about how bad he is, and then while fully acknowledging it, doesn't attempt to do anything about it. Edit: The rule from that games OP is play to win, whether he was playing against his win-con or just not playing doesn't really matter, he wasn't trying to win. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22634 Posts
not playing is playing against your win condition. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
On February 29 2012 21:01 prplhz wrote: Everybody can have a bad day. sinani206 usually tries a lot harder, and in his own unique way, to win the games he participates in. This is the first time I've seen him play this apathetically. I think at the very least we owe it to him to ask him what made him play like he did. i usually post, if i dont post for a game i expect to be mod-killed... previous experiences shouldn't be considered, it should be about that game and that game only. It doesn't matter how many games he participated in actively, he should be banned for "ruining" or "attempting to ruin" the game in question. | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
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iGrok
United States5142 Posts
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On March 01 2012 05:09 Cyber_Cheese wrote: He didn't play to win, and deserves a ban. If thats the case, does everyone who didn't play perfectly deserve a ban? How about a stupid roleclaim, is that bannable too? (Palmar, like your cop claim in Ace's Some Normal Game, done for the hell of it). Inactivity ban if he didn't meet the activity requirements and the host wanted one is fine, random behavioral ban because he was mildly inactive and didn't play well is not fine, because then we get on the slippery slope of "GM claimed medic as town and got lynched for it, he wasn't the medic, OMG not playing to win!" or "Qatol missed his team's last minute voteswitch because he was out at the time! That's not playing to win!" Plus, its a PM game, it would be a huge pain to have to dig around and find out "hey, did he PM people, was he active in IRC/AIM/GTalk/Skype or anything else?" | ||
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
He has done the same inactive "playing against win con" in every game he has ever been in, with no intention or effort to change. I think this should be more the spirit of the rule than the letter, I think 99% of people (the 1% being Nisani) would rather not play with sinani ever and that sentiment more than warrants a harsh ban. To add on: every single game he does the bare minimum (usually useless one sentence posts trolling or making excuses) to avoid an inactivity modkill and never actually plays the game, only posting useless garbage. Again it's destroying the spirit/purpose of the activity rule while not strictly breaking the letter of it. The fact that's he done this over and over (and over and over and over) again shows he has no serious intentions of changing. He has avoided getting a big ban because as I mentioned he posts useless crap once in a while to avoid modkills but I think something beyond the standard ban really has to be done about him. A multi-game ban with a heavy probation (play like that again and face a permanent ban) is what I would suggest. It seems harsh but he obviously doesn't take Mafia seriously and shouldn't be allowed to play with other people who put effort in unless he plans to change (which he has shown no intention of doing). He is the worst repeat offender too; most people who don't have interest in Mafia get modkilled but either don't come back at all or sit out their bans then play fine from then on. He has no interest in Mafia, skirts inactivity modkills with bullshit posts, and constantly signs up for games. I had similar feelings for Nisani but he has really shaped up and become an active poster/contributor in the games he's been signing up for. sinani has no such redeeming qualities. | ||
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GreYMisT
United States6736 Posts
On March 01 2012 06:19 Curu wrote: As someone who has played many times with sinani both on the same team and against him I have no desire to ever play with him again. He has done the same inactive "playing against win con" in every game he has ever been in, with no intention or effort to change. I think this should be more the spirit of the rule than the letter, I think 99% of people (the 1% being Nisani) would rather not play with sinani ever and that sentiment more than warrants a harsh ban. To add on: every single game he does the bare minimum (usually useless one sentence posts trolling or making excuses) to avoid an inactivity modkill and never actually plays the game, only posting useless garbage. Again it's destroying the spirit/purpose of the activity rule while not strictly breaking the letter of it. The fact that's he done this over and over (and over and over and over) again shows he has no serious intentions of changing. He has avoided getting a big ban because as I mentioned he posts useless crap once in a while to avoid modkills but I think something beyond the standard ban really has to be done about him. A multi-game ban with a heavy probation (play like that again and face a permanent ban) is what I would suggest. It seems harsh but he obviously doesn't take Mafia seriously and shouldn't be allowed to play with other people who put effort in unless he plans to change (which he has shown no intention of doing). He is the worst repeat offender too; most people who don't have interest in Mafia get modkilled but either don't come back at all or sit out their bans then play fine from then on. He has no interest in Mafia, skirts inactivity modkills with bullshit posts, and constantly signs up for games. I had similar feelings for Nisani but he has really shaped up and become an active poster/contributor in the games he's been signing up for. sinani has no such redeeming qualities. Didn't sinani just come off of a multi game ban for steamship? or was it something more recent? | ||
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On March 01 2012 06:19 Curu wrote: + Show Spoiler + As someone who has played many times with sinani both on the same team and against him I have no desire to ever play with him again. He has done the same inactive "playing against win con" in every game he has ever been in, with no intention or effort to change. I think this should be more the spirit of the rule than the letter, I think 99% of people (the 1% being Nisani) would rather not play with sinani ever and that sentiment more than warrants a harsh ban. To add on: every single game he does the bare minimum (usually useless one sentence posts trolling or making excuses) to avoid an inactivity modkill and never actually plays the game, only posting useless garbage. Again it's destroying the spirit/purpose of the activity rule while not strictly breaking the letter of it. The fact that's he done this over and over (and over and over and over) again shows he has no serious intentions of changing. He has avoided getting a big ban because as I mentioned he posts useless crap once in a while to avoid modkills but I think something beyond the standard ban really has to be done about him. A multi-game ban with a heavy probation (play like that again and face a permanent ban) is what I would suggest. It seems harsh but he obviously doesn't take Mafia seriously and shouldn't be allowed to play with other people who put effort in unless he plans to change (which he has shown no intention of doing). He is the worst repeat offender too; most people who don't have interest in Mafia get modkilled but either don't come back at all or sit out their bans then play fine from then on. He has no interest in Mafia, skirts inactivity modkills with bullshit posts, and constantly signs up for games. I had similar feelings for Nisani but he has really shaped up and become an active poster/contributor in the games he's been signing up for. sinani has no such redeeming qualities. Have you tried talking to him rather than making a request to ban him straight up? Find him on IRC/AIM/Skype or something and try explaining your concerns to him, rather than trying to bend the banlist to make him change. Its probably a lot more effective than having him banned for not meeting some murky threshold of effort that we could never truly define anyway. | ||
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
It's reached a breaking point with him. Well let's see what others think. I try to be unbiased but I realize that might not be possible with how much he pissed me off in Ace's game where he refused to do anything but post nonsense. I didn't want to cause a big ruckus afterwards with that but to see he's still doing the exact same thing several months later I personally think he deserves some form of punishment. | ||
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On March 01 2012 08:06 Curu wrote: Yeah I tried in the middle of a game we were playing. All I got was him trolling even harder. Stuff like "u mad bro?" and other crap along those lines. It's reached a breaking point with him. Well let's see what others think. I try to be unbiased but I realize that might not be possible with how much he pissed me off in Ace's game where he refused to do anything but post nonsense. I didn't want to cause a big ruckus afterwards with that but to see he's still doing the exact same thing several months later I personally think he deserves some form of punishment. You can't do it in the middle of a game, you have to address it post or pre-game during a game behaving like that if he is unsure of your alignment is fair game, outside the game you are actually addressing an issue. Frankly, sinani is not the only player who "only posts nonsense", and posting nonsense isn't bannable . The purpose of the banlist is these two things 1.) Bar inactive players from playing. Inactivity is defined as posting X amount of times per cycle (X is defined by the host) and voting every cycle. 2.) Punish people who break the rules of the game, as stated in the OP, as those rules are there to ensure both fairness and fun for everyone. The point of the "Play to win" clause is to have a catchall for things that clearly break the spirit of the game or sabotage it (Claiming mafia day 1, outing yourself a sk for giggles, etc), but aren't spelled out Can you honestly say sinani falls into either category? Has he broken any rules or broken the inactivity line? Has he violated the spirit of any of the rules, even? Seriously, sit down and have a chat with him, while neither of you are in the same game, and explain to him, nicely that you think he is really ruining games for you and others, then in a couple games, if it persists, PM me and I'll have a chat with him, the banlist is not here to punish players based on some unmeasured standard of effort. If you'd rather I talked with him, let me know. EDIT: I think this comes off as a little more aggressive than it should, I'm not in the least bit angry, I'm happy to keep discussing it even, its just that people seem to misunderstand what the banlist is for. EDIT2: When the hell did I hit 6k? | ||
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GreYMisT
United States6736 Posts
On March 01 2012 08:30 GMarshal wrote: You can't do it in the middle of a game, you have to address it post or pre-game during a game behaving like that if he is unsure of your alignment is fair game, outside the game you are actually addressing an issue. Frankly, sinani is not the only player who "only posts nonsense", and posting nonsense isn't bannable . The purpose of the banlist is these two things 1.) Bar inactive players from playing. Inactivity is defined as posting X amount of times per cycle (X is defined by the host) and voting every cycle. 2.) Punish people who break the rules of the game, as stated in the OP, as those rules are there to ensure both fairness and fun for everyone. The point of the "Play to win" clause is to have a catchall for things that clearly break the spirit of the game or sabotage it (Claiming mafia day 1, outing yourself a sk for giggles, etc), but aren't spelled out Can you honestly say sinani falls into either category? Has he broken any rules or broken the inactivity line? Has he violated the spirit of any of the rules, even? Seriously, sit down and have a chat with him, while neither of you are in the same game, and explain to him, nicely that you think he is really ruining games for you and others, then in a couple games, if it persists, PM me and I'll have a chat with him, the banlist is not here to punish players based on some unmeasured standard of effort. If you'd rather I talked with him, let me know. EDIT: I think this comes off as a little more aggressive than it should, I'm not in the least bit angry, I'm happy to keep discussing it even, its just that people seem to misunderstand what the banlist is for. EDIT2: When the hell did I hit 6k? 68 posts ago | ||
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
On March 01 2012 08:30 GMarshal wrote: You can't do it in the middle of a game, you have to address it post or pre-game during a game behaving like that if he is unsure of your alignment is fair game, outside the game you are actually addressing an issue. Frankly, sinani is not the only player who "only posts nonsense", and posting nonsense isn't bannable . The purpose of the banlist is these two things 1.) Bar inactive players from playing. Inactivity is defined as posting X amount of times per cycle (X is defined by the host) and voting every cycle. 2.) Punish people who break the rules of the game, as stated in the OP, as those rules are there to ensure both fairness and fun for everyone. The point of the "Play to win" clause is to have a catchall for things that clearly break the spirit of the game or sabotage it (Claiming mafia day 1, outing yourself a sk for giggles, etc), but aren't spelled out Can you honestly say sinani falls into either category? Has he broken any rules or broken the inactivity line? Has he violated the spirit of any of the rules, even? Seriously, sit down and have a chat with him, while neither of you are in the same game, and explain to him, nicely that you think he is really ruining games for you and others, then in a couple games, if it persists, PM me and I'll have a chat with him, the banlist is not here to punish players based on some unmeasured standard of effort. If you'd rather I talked with him, let me know. EDIT: I think this comes off as a little more aggressive than it should, I'm not in the least bit angry, I'm happy to keep discussing it even, its just that people seem to misunderstand what the banlist is for. EDIT2: When the hell did I hit 6k? So when he ruins games with his purposeful bad play, thats not bannable? | ||
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On March 01 2012 08:57 Mattchew wrote: So when he ruins games with his purposeful bad play, thats not bannable? Can you prove he is playing purposefully badly, and isn't just bad and this is the best he can do? Did he in fact "ruin" a game, to the point where it either became unplayabe, caused ragequits or resulted in a modkill? Because if we are banning people for playing poorly, then a lot of people are going to be facing bans. Playing poorly is not bannable. | ||
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
On March 01 2012 08:57 Mattchew wrote: So when he ruins games with his purposeful bad play, thats not bannable? First of all, how do you know he is intentionally playing poorly? Can you prove that he's doing it on purpose? If you can't, just say he's playing poorly. Secondly, how does him playing poorly ruin the game? Can the game simply not go on after he is lynched? Does he completely ruin the game for the other players? Otherwise, just learn to pick up the slack. There are stronger players and weaker players in games. The stronger players have to learn to compensate for the weaker players. And if they can't, that's part of the game too. You can't ban someone just because they don't play well as long as they're trying to play well. | ||
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
On March 01 2012 09:07 Qatol wrote:+ Show Spoiler + On March 01 2012 08:57 Mattchew wrote: So when he ruins games with his purposeful bad play, thats not bannable? First of all, how do you know he is intentionally playing poorly? Can you prove that he's doing it on purpose? If you can't, just say he's playing poorly. Secondly, how does him playing poorly ruin the game? Can the game simply not go on after he is lynched? Does he completely ruin the game for the other players? Otherwise, just learn to pick up the slack. There are stronger players and weaker players in games. The stronger players have to learn to compensate for the weaker players. And if they can't, that's part of the game too. You can't ban someone just because they don't play well as long as they're trying to play well. On March 01 2012 09:01 GMarshal wrote:+ Show Spoiler + On March 01 2012 08:57 Mattchew wrote: So when he ruins games with his purposeful bad play, thats not bannable? Can you prove he is playing purposefully badly, and isn't just bad and this is the best he can do? Did he in fact "ruin" a game, to the point where it either became unplayabe, caused ragequits or resulted in a modkill? Because if we are banning people for playing poorly, then a lot of people are going to be facing bans. Playing poorly is not bannable. You both say similar things and I wasn't exactly speaking on just this specific instance (mostly cause I don't want to call only 1 person, who has been here longer than I, out). I think curu makes the argument that it is intentional and consistent. My argument is more along the lines that playing with no effort (barely avoiding modkills) and posting literally nothing of value, should be bannable. He ruins the game because they are all balanced around the notion that each player will play to their win con.. if he is getting mislynched for no reason other than because he did next to nothing, this is playing against his win condition. A lot of people are willing to put a ton of efforts into this game, only to be at a disadvantage purely because a player like this is on your team | ||
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