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Hypothetical Situation - Page 2

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Qatol
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
United States3165 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-18 12:25:22
February 18 2010 12:05 GMT
#21
+ Show Spoiler +
You hit the medic. If you hit the other player, you risk giving additional information to the medic, in which case you automatically lose. If you hit the medic and the hit gets blocked, the medic doesn't learn any additional information and then you can try to talk your way into the win during the day. If you hit the other player and your hit is blocked, basically the only way to win I can see is if you pull off a fake medic roleclaim after the hit (and get the real medic lynched). I'd personally prefer to have the flexibility to lynch the more suspicious of the 2 players rather than confirming one of the players, thus forcing a lynch attempt of the other.
Obviously, this is subject to change based on the players, RoL as medic in particular comes to mind, but assuming players I don't have history on, I'd hit the medic.


EDIT: Now that I look at Ace's answer, we wound up with pretty similar solutions. I didn't think about + Show Spoiler +
how people lean based on that earlier vote
, but otherwise the logic pretty much looks the same.
Uff Da
d3_crescentia
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States4054 Posts
February 22 2010 02:03 GMT
#22
Hmm. Being fairly new to mafia overall, I figured that: + Show Spoiler +
hitting the medic would be the best, because hitting Townie B runs the risk of additional information being fed into the game, whereas hitting the medic just maintains the status quo in the worst case scenario.

Having not read the scenario carefully enough in my first run, I was at a loss after that. If the Medic protected himself and continued to do so what would happen? The only way to really win the game would be to try to convince Townie B to lynch the Medic. Getting Townie B lynched might set up a draw.
Reading through Ace's answer, I hadn't really considered the previous votes all too much, though I'm pretty happy with my reasoning capabilities thus far.
once, not long ago, there was a moon here
L
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Canada4732 Posts
February 22 2010 02:06 GMT
#23
+ Show Spoiler +
RoL as medic
ROFL.
The number you have dialed is out of porkchops.
Malongo
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Chile3472 Posts
February 22 2010 04:05 GMT
#24
Looking all the setup from the medic pov i think i hit the townie. Medic has only 50/50 of guessing who is mafia and worst 33% of blocking the hit giving the town "chances" to win. Medic is a lot more likely to protect himself or you in the case you posted. Plus it also has to do with some pride: if the medic blocks a hit on you or on him it is going to be a good play from him. If he protects the townie and fails he is going to be an asshole.
Help me! im still improving my English. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. M. G.
Fulgrim
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States560 Posts
February 22 2010 21:49 GMT
#25
If I were the medic, I would prot myself so I could be sure I wasn't proting the remaining mafia, although I still agree with your logic that the medic should be hit, because then he won't know who hit him that night.
One does not simply walk into mordor
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-25 00:44:03
October 25 2011 00:41 GMT
#26
+ Show Spoiler +
Shoot the medic obviously. Either I win the game or nothing happens and I have to convince a mislynch. Better than hitting the townie. In that case either I win or I got a medic who saved a townie, I'm insta lynched. Not shooting is the same as shooting the medic except without the chance of insta winning.

Though if I was in a situation where it was LYLO, I was townie and Ace was somehow still alive, it's be an obvious lynch =]


EDIT: yayy I was right =]
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
kitaman27 *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9245 Posts
October 25 2011 00:48 GMT
#27
Convince the medic to protect you, shoot yourself, and win with style.
I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
October 25 2011 00:50 GMT
#28
On October 25 2011 09:48 kitaman27 wrote:
Convince the medic to protect you, shoot yourself, and win with style.


lolol +1
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
bumatlarge
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States4567 Posts
October 25 2011 01:17 GMT
#29
speifically tell medic that whater they do, DONT PROTECT YOU. 100% NO-NO. Don't say "Oh protect yourself", make sure that they whatever they do, they can not protect you.

Choose not to shoot, claim vet and the shot, lynch whoever the fuck you want.

Kita's idea is good.
Together but separate, like oatmeal
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
October 25 2011 01:20 GMT
#30
If you claim Vet you'll be lynched the next day. 1 Medic is alive and you tell them do not protect you and then have an alibi for not getting shot the next day? Thats a bit insane
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
hp.Shell
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2527 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-12 00:57:04
December 12 2011 00:22 GMT
#31
+ Show Spoiler +
This is a example of a dilemma seen infrequently in chase stories. I can't remember the name of the dilemma (if it even has one) but I know an extremely similar case appears in the movie Collateral, specifically this scene starting at 11:00 and ending at 13:08:

There are two iterations of this dilemma seen in these two minutes, but both are dealt with the same way, and Tom Cruise's character chooses correctly in both situations because he recognizes the strategy involved. Though not 100% the same as the medic / townie case, it is similar enough in that there are two paths for the medic to take, and two paths for the goon to take. The goon must take into account the medic's choice in his own, and it is because the medic has to make a choice "first" that the goon has an advantage.

The first choice happens when the good guys get to the bottom floor. There is a diverging of paths: take the street or the subway? The most important thing here is the potential for escape. The street offers the greatest potential for escape, because the good guys can just keep running and hide in a manhole if necessary, or they can quickly grab a taxi. The subway offers the least potential for escape because there is no way to know whether a train will be there on time for the good guys to keep running, and there is a high chance that they will be caught up to if they take this route. But they know that the "goon," Tom Cruise, is close behind. So Jamie Foxx attempts to trick Tom Cruise by taking the path that offers the least potential for escape, the subway.

The second choice is between the upper (same level) or lower (different level) trains. Again, the medic wishes to fool the goon by picking the least obvious choice. But the medic just chose the least obvious choice. If, then, the goon has picked correctly between the street and subway, then the goon is onto the medic's game and it is to the medic's advantage to pick the most obvious choice, thereby attempting to trick the goon again.

The second choice is more difficult, but the principle is the same. At first, the good guys run down the stairs so as not to be spotted, in case the goon has chosen correctly. Then, the upper train arrives first. The most obvious choice for escape in this situation is the upper train, which the good guys will pick to trick the goon. It is always the medic's advantage to attempt to trick the goon. This is why Tom Cruise is able to choose correctly, though it takes some brainpower as you can tell by the video.

In the first case the street choice represents the medic taking action to defend himself. The subway represents the medic acting to protect the townie. The medic isn't sure whether the goon knows he is the medic. So the medic can assume one of two things:
1. The goon doesn't know that he is the medic, or
2. The goon does know that he is the medic.
The medic notices that in the first case, it doesn't matter who he decides to protect, as the result will be a coin flip. So he decides that it is best to assume [2], that the goon knows he is the medic. The medic will most likely then decide it is in his best interest to trick the goon by protecting the townie. In the medic's mind, it is most likely that the goon will decide to kill the medic if he knows his role.

The goon's situation happens to be far superior. By assuming the medic will try to trick the goon, the choice becomes as simple as the one between the street and the subway in Collateral. The medic will pick the least obvious route of escape, which is to protect the townie. The goon can then choose to kill the medic, and he will probably be right.

Edit: This can be considered WIFOM, that's the name I was trying to think of.
Edit2: + Show Spoiler +
Also if the final day begins with only the medic and the goon alive, it's a draw.
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