EPTArgument Compilation
Anything listed in red is an objectively untrue statement or something I find completely ridiculous. I didn't list a lot of redundant arguments for the sake of time, but I got mostly everything. I've changed my mind a bit after going back and really scrutinizing every post. I suggest everyone do the same, you'd be surprised what bad conclusions you may have come to because you weren't really thinking.
I blame my lack of focus yesterday due to packing up my room and playing video games while half-assedly browsing the mafia thread, but from now on I'm on full alert ;o
I will post another update to this when I feel it's relevant.
KEEP IN MIND THAT I DID NOT COMPILE ARGUMENTS FROM PAGE 24 OR BEYOND
BloodyC0bbler
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Argues that people should vote him for mayor because he is a strong player who can guide the town.
I don't need to offer a strategy for the town to be mayor.
l10f has done nothing to get people to vote for him, anyone who votes for him is suspicious.
Don't use previous games to justify actions in this one.
If L is mafia he wants Ace dead because Ace is another mafia or a strong townie.
Ver
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Discussing clues too much on the first day helps the mafia, Day 1 clues are very vague and shouldn't be taken seriously until later.
Posting behavior isn't very easy to lynch people off of unless they make bad mistakes.
We need to have a plan for the elected/blue roles and gather as much information as possible.
Don't hide your thoughts. Post whatever, the more active people are the harder it is for mafia to hide.
Instead of making immediate accusations based on clues, build clue profiles that grow stronger over time.
Primary suspect is BloodyC0bbler due to a change in posting behavior.
Posting behavior isn't very easy to lynch people off of unless they make bad mistakes.
We need to have a plan for the elected/blue roles and gather as much information as possible.
Don't hide your thoughts. Post whatever, the more active people are the harder it is for mafia to hide.
Instead of making immediate accusations based on clues, build clue profiles that grow stronger over time.
Primary suspect is BloodyC0bbler due to a change in posting behavior.
L
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Looking at clues is very helpful, even on Day 1 because the clues are very good this time around.
The clues very clearly point toward Ace as being mafia.
Ace is discouraging clue analysis because he knows it will kill him.
We can't afford to waste any lynches.
Clues will help the mafia kill eachother for the benefit of the town.
Ace needs to provide an alternative person to fit the day 1 clues.
Ace is mafia because he refuses to analyze the clues and provide an alternative even though he is "innocent"
The majority of anything people discuss lead to innocent deaths. Discussion still needs to happen and will tell us who is active and who isn't.
Don't treat this game like a large 1 mafia game. Clues will be very important here.
There isn't necessarily a clear clue division between the two families.
The clues pointing to Ace are specific and very clear, not at all a stretch.
It isn't likely that clues will grow stronger over time due to the sheer amount of mafia in this game.
Don't make useless posts.
People should listen to my clue analysis because I am very good at it.
Town can't waste time due to KP disparity.
Saying Ace is innocent because Incog wants him alive makes it too easy to twist clues.
Mafia might have several good/veteran players.
People look more innocent if herring clues apply to them.
If Ace is red, Malongo probably is too.
Don't be scared to kill a good player on day 1.
I'm not trying to force Ace to die, I'm trying to analyze the clues. Offer an alternative fit if you want to turn away suspicion.
I don't want Ace dead, I want the moonlight rider dead.
The clues very clearly point toward Ace as being mafia.
Ace is discouraging clue analysis because he knows it will kill him.
We can't afford to waste any lynches.
Clues will help the mafia kill eachother for the benefit of the town.
Ace needs to provide an alternative person to fit the day 1 clues.
Ace is mafia because he refuses to analyze the clues and provide an alternative even though he is "innocent"
The majority of anything people discuss lead to innocent deaths. Discussion still needs to happen and will tell us who is active and who isn't.
Don't treat this game like a large 1 mafia game. Clues will be very important here.
There isn't necessarily a clear clue division between the two families.
The clues pointing to Ace are specific and very clear, not at all a stretch.
It isn't likely that clues will grow stronger over time due to the sheer amount of mafia in this game.
Don't make useless posts.
People should listen to my clue analysis because I am very good at it.
Town can't waste time due to KP disparity.
Saying Ace is innocent because Incog wants him alive makes it too easy to twist clues.
Mafia might have several good/veteran players.
People look more innocent if herring clues apply to them.
If Ace is red, Malongo probably is too.
Don't be scared to kill a good player on day 1.
I'm not trying to force Ace to die, I'm trying to analyze the clues. Offer an alternative fit if you want to turn away suspicion.
I don't want Ace dead, I want the moonlight rider dead.
Zato-1
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The Horsemen are on a different team from the torch thrower, the psychopath is on a different team from the angel.
There may come a time when we may need to help one mafia family survive over another.
The clue connection to Ace is strong, but perhaps not strong enough.
Ace needs to argue against the clues, not the people analyzing them.
Our job as town is to direct the mafia into killing eachother.
It seems redtooth has an ulterior motive for defending Ace.
There may come a time when we may need to help one mafia family survive over another.
The clue connection to Ace is strong, but perhaps not strong enough.
Ace needs to argue against the clues, not the people analyzing them.
Our job as town is to direct the mafia into killing eachother.
It seems redtooth has an ulterior motive for defending Ace.
laaan
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Clues promote discussion which helps the town.
There is a possibility that BloodyCobbler's profile fits the clues.
Town should focus on keeping good players alive while the mafia kill eachother.
Mafia will want the pardoner role.
There is a possibility that BloodyCobbler's profile fits the clues.
Town should focus on keeping good players alive while the mafia kill eachother.
Mafia will want the pardoner role.
l10f
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We shouldn't point fingers until later days.
If I am elected, I will lynch someone who was previously mafia.
Chezinu is mafia and I will lynch him if I'm mayor.
If I am elected, I will lynch someone who was previously mafia.
Chezinu is mafia and I will lynch him if I'm mayor.
DoctorHelvetica
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Let's not make accusations based on clues until later. Worry about the mayor lynch.
Agrees with Ver that clue profiling will be very helpful.
Don't lynch Day 1 based on clues, they're useful later.
BloodyCobbler should be lynched because the accusations on him are based on posting behavior and inconsistency.
Use clues to help DT's and the town in the late-game.
Agrees with Ver that clue profiling will be very helpful.
Don't lynch Day 1 based on clues, they're useful later.
BloodyCobbler should be lynched because the accusations on him are based on posting behavior and inconsistency.
Use clues to help DT's and the town in the late-game.
Malongo
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We need a protected DT.
Disagrees with Ver, even a wrong or fake analysis can help us.
l10f should be mayor because he claimed blue
l10f never roleclaimed a blue role
Caller, L, and BC are mafia
Disagrees with Ver, even a wrong or fake analysis can help us.
l10f should be mayor because he claimed blue
l10f never roleclaimed a blue role
Caller, L, and BC are mafia
Caller. Half inactive up to now. Posted defending BC out of nowhere.
L: Wanted to change his profile. Not really doing what he does in all games to benefit the town.
BC: Already spotted by ver.
L: Wanted to change his profile. Not really doing what he does in all games to benefit the town.
BC: Already spotted by ver.
meeple
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Clues will be very important here.
The accusation on BloodyCobbler is too weak to lynch him.
Town should focus on surviving and hunting mafia
The accusation on BloodyCobbler is too weak to lynch him.
Town should focus on surviving and hunting mafia
Mystlord
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We shouldn't lynch on clues before Day 3.
Clues are mostly a vehicle for potentially incriminating discussion.
Don't lynch Chezinu Day 1 arbitrarily.
We need a mayor who is uninvolved in this drama.
Using information from past games isn't helpful.
Clues are mostly a vehicle for potentially incriminating discussion.
Don't lynch Chezinu Day 1 arbitrarily.
We need a mayor who is uninvolved in this drama.
Using information from past games isn't helpful.
Caller
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BloodyCobbler will be such a helpful townie that he's a poor choice for a Day 1 lynch.
Don't lynch strong players without good reason.
Don't lynch strong players without good reason.
d3_crescentia
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Don't lynch strong players without good reason.
Clues need to be strong in this game, we shouldn't ignore Day 1 clues because there are so many mafia.
We need to keep in mind how the dynamic shifts due to there being 2 mafia.
Clues need to be strong in this game, we shouldn't ignore Day 1 clues because there are so many mafia.
We need to keep in mind how the dynamic shifts due to there being 2 mafia.
Abenson
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Lynching someone based on posts hurts on the first day.
Focus on the elections
Focus on the elections
Ace
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Talking about clues early is useless, they are useful later.
I'm being targeted by L and Zato because I'm a good pro-town player. (Implies L and Zat are mafia)
Be wary of light/ungrounded accusations.
Don't lynch strong players unless it is obvious they are mafia.
Blindly pointing fingers is bad no matter what.
Clues are subjective, not objective.
Never rely on clues.
I refuse to provide an alternative because I don't want to point fingers at anyone.
Clues are useful only when processed through DT's.
I can't be mafia because if I acted differently than in previous games everyone would notice and lynch me instantly.
I won't argue about clue analysis because it is subjective. I can debate whether they are valid because that is objective. Clue discussion leads to innocent death.
Don't think of this as 1v1v1, this game is about temporary allegiances as the mafia try to kill eachother.
L is trying to turn the town against me.
Very few people actually doubt me as pro-town.
L is trying to force my death and if I'm green/blue, he's definitely red.
I'm being targeted by L and Zato because I'm a good pro-town player. (Implies L and Zat are mafia)
Be wary of light/ungrounded accusations.
Don't lynch strong players unless it is obvious they are mafia.
Blindly pointing fingers is bad no matter what.
Clues are subjective, not objective.
Never rely on clues.
I refuse to provide an alternative because I don't want to point fingers at anyone.
Clues are useful only when processed through DT's.
I can't be mafia because if I acted differently than in previous games everyone would notice and lynch me instantly.
I won't argue about clue analysis because it is subjective. I can debate whether they are valid because that is objective. Clue discussion leads to innocent death.
Don't think of this as 1v1v1, this game is about temporary allegiances as the mafia try to kill eachother.
L is trying to turn the town against me.
Very few people actually doubt me as pro-town.
L is trying to force my death and if I'm green/blue, he's definitely red.
Redtooth
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Day 1 clue analysis is useless.
Don't post distracting things.
Ace is right. Clue analysis is the last thing we need right now.
The winning mayor should lynch a veteran mayor candidate.
BloodyCobbler is suspicious.
Mafia will have one person running for mayor at least.
The clues pointing toward Ace are a stretch.
We will never have a good Day 1 analysis.
Incognito wouldn't make obvious clues point to Ace, even if Ace was mafia.
Ace plays aggressive whether he is mafia or town, attacking his argument style is useless.
An alliance between mafia will be terrible for the town.
I agree that we will probably never see 2 sets of clues on 1 mafia.
If Ace was mafia, incognito wants him alive.
Ace is innocent because the clues point to him.
There have been no mafia accusations between L and Ace up until now.
-Untrue. L directly said "I think you're red" to Ace before this post, Ace also implied Zato/L were mafia in his first post although he didn't directly accuse them
L is upset about the last game in which he was mafia which is why he wants Ace dead.
Ace isn't necessarily innocent, the clues just don't point to him. Clue analysis on day 1 is trash.
Don't post distracting things.
Ace is right. Clue analysis is the last thing we need right now.
The winning mayor should lynch a veteran mayor candidate.
BloodyCobbler is suspicious.
Mafia will have one person running for mayor at least.
The clues pointing toward Ace are a stretch.
We will never have a good Day 1 analysis.
Incognito wouldn't make obvious clues point to Ace, even if Ace was mafia.
Ace plays aggressive whether he is mafia or town, attacking his argument style is useless.
An alliance between mafia will be terrible for the town.
I agree that we will probably never see 2 sets of clues on 1 mafia.
If Ace was mafia, incognito wants him alive.
Ace is innocent because the clues point to him.
There have been no mafia accusations between L and Ace up until now.
-Untrue. L directly said "I think you're red" to Ace before this post, Ace also implied Zato/L were mafia in his first post although he didn't directly accuse them
L is upset about the last game in which he was mafia which is why he wants Ace dead.
Ace isn't necessarily innocent, the clues just don't point to him. Clue analysis on day 1 is trash.
Dozko
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Disagrees with Ace: Behavioral analysis is much more subjective than clues.
All we have are Day 1 clues, we shouldn't ignore them.
All we have are Day 1 clues, we shouldn't ignore them.
Chezinu
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Day 1 clues are good to start discussion.
Use clues to accuse people even if you don't really suspect them, then analyze their reaction.
I should be mayor because I am untrustworthy.
There is no such thing as a wasted post.
Don't kill me.
What people say in public isn't necessarily what they actually think.
Use clues to accuse people even if you don't really suspect them, then analyze their reaction.
I should be mayor because I am untrustworthy.
There is no such thing as a wasted post.
Don't kill me.
What people say in public isn't necessarily what they actually think.
Hobbes
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By lynching active posters with clues pointing toward them, we gain a lot of helpful information.
It isn't a bad idea to lynch Ace.
Just because a player is good doesn't mean they are sacrosanct.
It isn't a bad idea to lynch Ace.
Just because a player is good doesn't mean they are sacrosanct.
The bolded spoilers are very important as they will shine a lot of light on the argument between Ace/L/Redtooth.
After reading through the thread more closely, I believe clue analysis is a lot more important than I first though. The clues are much stronger and L's point about clue profiling being mostly useless because of the large number of mafia is a very good one. L has been consistent and well-spoken in his arguments.
Ace/Redtooth have been a bit inconsistent and too personal. Saying things like "L is obviously upset about this previous game" doesn't help anything and is just worthless speculation that distracts from the real argument. Ace's refusal to provide an alternative fit cannot be ignored.
L did imply that Ace was butthurt about a previous game and I do hold that against him, unless he has some sort of strategical reason for doing so (such as trying to provoke a specific reaction)
Read through this and make what you will of it! Keep in mind newer arguments (Page 24 onward) aren't posted here.
