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On February 14 2010 12:37 Ace wrote:
L there is no confusion to resolve. I'm not going to sit here and argue about clue content because it's SUBJECTIVE. I will debate on whether or not it's valid to even discuss over them at length since that is something that can be supported with facts: majority of games we play with clue discussion lead to lots of innocent death.
See. It's not that hard to call you out on your bullshit ^_^
The majority of anything that people discuss lead to innocent deaths on day 1-2. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. If anything, the discussion is useful to see who's talking, who isn't, and who's pushing against who.
As for the profile change, I added a picture because I didn't have one. Prior to the change my profile was the same with the lack of picture.
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On February 14 2010 12:35 Malongo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2010 12:17 Abenson wrote:
L v Ace...
Flame war between vets o.o Is this a DEJA VU¿ Now centering on the important matters: So far there is just no plan on the table. I mean literally all the candidates for office are just proposing themselves. So im inclined to think l10f is actually a good man to be on the office. First of all he claimed blue. Second reason is more a personal choice but im just too bored to see the same guys always there: Ver, BC, Ace... we need some new blood, with the added benefit that he is more likely to misstep if he plays red. For the first lynch play i really oppose the general feeling that we should lynch an inactive. Im all in to kill a big name. Three that come inmediatly into my mind are: Caller. Half inactive up to now. Posted defending BC out of nowhere. L: Wanted to change his profile. Not really doing what he does in all games to benefit the town. BC: Already spotted by ver. In fact if you think about it most of the time we lynched an inactive first day we got a town side player. Just lynch someone in the big names.
I'm pretty sure that the BC connection was fairly weak too...
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Nice the game is underway! I am slightly intimidated by the monumental amount of posts though, although its definitely a refreshing change to last game.
Regarding the clues: now that everyone has a detailed profile my intuition is that the analytical value of the clues should be higher. Especially since if it is easier for the host to create the killer profile it will be easier for us to reach the same conclusions, as it will not be too obscure given you have more stuff to base it on.
On February 14 2010 12:16 Ace wrote:
We should NEVER rely on clues are our primary weapon for catching Mafia. Remember they are based on interpretation NOT fact. This is why I said it DOES NOT MATTER how many more people in the game are Mafia, it's always going to come down to guesswork. At the very least we can focus on behavior. Look at all the people vying for clue work when it's an easily acceptable fact by anyone that has played before that it's a bad idea.
Ace, I find myself disagreeing with you here. Mainly because you may think that behavioral clues are stronger but the problem with them is that you might be interpreting an interpretation. I.e. its easy for players to get in character and assume some sort of posting pattern that would not reflect their usual written style or speech. This is especially true for veteran players, of which there are a lot in this game. Sure clue analysis still has interpretation issues but at least we know that the host has decided on a profile for every mobster and will be consistent with it.
I do however think that day 1 clues are always a long stretch but thats all we got right now so they cant be ignored totally. I dont know much about Incognito's narration style, but in BC's last game some of the clues were really obvious and others were more obscure and this makes them harder to interpret. So based on that I dont think we can eliminate the connection to ace on the grounds of it being too obvious.
With regards to the election Im having a hard time deciding right now since its quite late here, but Ill look through the candidatures and subsequent posts tomorrow and post my reasoning.
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On February 14 2010 12:40 Fulgrim wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2010 11:45 Ace wrote:
Ok, the KingPin has arrived. Time to stop this nonsense and get this game started.
First of all, I'm going to be brutally honest here. Some of you playing are newbies. That isn't to say you're bad, but more so that you haven't had the experience of playing a true cut throat game of Mafia. The last 2 games were honestly so bland - aka too much talking about clues, that it wasn't really that much high level strategy going on.
Like Ver said, talking too much about clues early is USELESS. Don't try to convince anyone that someone is Mafia based on clues for the first few days. It's nice to mention it, but do not make it a central point of focus. MTF and Camlito are the best 2 clue analyzers along with Plexa that we ever had. That was in Mafia 2 and it took a ton of planning + input from various people to even come to some of those conclusions. Chances are you won't be able to do much with clues this game unless you've got some additional proof. What I mean by this is catch someone on behavior analysis + clues + shoddy voting or motives. Saying "this clue points to Ace" is just stupid.
Knowing this, I'm not surprised LL and Zato -1 are already accusing me. Look people, especially for you new players - I'm one of the biggest targets in any Mafia game. Every time. I'm super valuable. I catch people in lies all the time and I always save townies from the obvious bandwagon deaths. L and Zato may not have blatantly accused me but they just planted a seed of suspicion on me of all people, based on some wild clues. Be very wary of light weight accusations like this.
I'm running for Mayor of course. But in the event I don't win, my vote is possibly going to Ver. The only reason I might not vote for him is because he has elected to kill BC which is just as bad as L/Zato wanting me dead. Our most valuable players should be saved unless it's blatantly obvious they are Mafia. There are 3 teams this game, don't even bother trying to murder all of our good players so soon.
Ace you really need to give people more incentive if you expect them to vote for you. You should try and post something with more substance, then just "I'M ACE VOTE FOR ME". Some healthy mafia accusations never hurt anyone, I agree that clues aren't the most helpful early game as you can easily screw up, but its not any worse then just lynching a random player.
my incentive is there. I'm already the shining beacon of innocence I always am. If I tried to do anything radically different from normal I'd be labeled as Mafia and gg'd.
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On February 14 2010 12:44 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2010 12:40 Fulgrim wrote:On February 14 2010 11:45 Ace wrote:
Ok, the KingPin has arrived. Time to stop this nonsense and get this game started.
First of all, I'm going to be brutally honest here. Some of you playing are newbies. That isn't to say you're bad, but more so that you haven't had the experience of playing a true cut throat game of Mafia. The last 2 games were honestly so bland - aka too much talking about clues, that it wasn't really that much high level strategy going on.
Like Ver said, talking too much about clues early is USELESS. Don't try to convince anyone that someone is Mafia based on clues for the first few days. It's nice to mention it, but do not make it a central point of focus. MTF and Camlito are the best 2 clue analyzers along with Plexa that we ever had. That was in Mafia 2 and it took a ton of planning + input from various people to even come to some of those conclusions. Chances are you won't be able to do much with clues this game unless you've got some additional proof. What I mean by this is catch someone on behavior analysis + clues + shoddy voting or motives. Saying "this clue points to Ace" is just stupid.
Knowing this, I'm not surprised LL and Zato -1 are already accusing me. Look people, especially for you new players - I'm one of the biggest targets in any Mafia game. Every time. I'm super valuable. I catch people in lies all the time and I always save townies from the obvious bandwagon deaths. L and Zato may not have blatantly accused me but they just planted a seed of suspicion on me of all people, based on some wild clues. Be very wary of light weight accusations like this.
I'm running for Mayor of course. But in the event I don't win, my vote is possibly going to Ver. The only reason I might not vote for him is because he has elected to kill BC which is just as bad as L/Zato wanting me dead. Our most valuable players should be saved unless it's blatantly obvious they are Mafia. There are 3 teams this game, don't even bother trying to murder all of our good players so soon.
Ace you really need to give people more incentive if you expect them to vote for you. You should try and post something with more substance, then just "I'M ACE VOTE FOR ME". Some healthy mafia accusations never hurt anyone, I agree that clues aren't the most helpful early game as you can easily screw up, but its not any worse then just lynching a random player. my incentive is there. I'm already the shining beacon of innocence I always am. If I tried to do anything radically different from normal I'd be labeled as Mafia and gg'd.
Ace, if you should have acting radical like me every game so that you can do whatever you want...but then it makes getting a mayor role really hard.. If only people could see pass my image and vote for me..I f only people could see pass the image in my profile and see it's true meaning...
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i'm on page 14 right now but seriously random people need to stop running for mayor. saying stuff like "i think i'm a nice guy" (masterdana) you're just becoming a distraction. voters should only vote on truly experienced players so far. i didn't really watch the recent 2 large games so i don't know who excelled in them but BC and L seem to be the only proven players running for mayor.
as much as i joked about chezinu pregame, his trash is becoming a distraction but he's actually trying to be useful instead of trolling about brown. that shit about citizen is the exact type of day 1 clue analysis we are trying to avoid. why the hell would you vote him mayor because of that? i'm going to finish reading but keep an eye on the list of mayor candidates and if you aren't a proven player, have no legitimate chance of winning the election, or are stupid and just want attention don't run for mayor anymore. mayor candidates are important because mafia would obviously want to get a mayor in so they'll send in candidates.
ok i'm really going to go finish now.
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On February 14 2010 10:21 Bill Murray wrote:
"Mayor candidates must have a plan."
My plan is to follow the majority.
I will make no decisions unless it is through the active town (I hope most of the town is active). see. this is useless. you would be a useless mayor. we don't need brain-dead herd mentality robots as mayors.
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On February 14 2010 12:47 Chezinu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2010 12:44 Ace wrote:On February 14 2010 12:40 Fulgrim wrote:On February 14 2010 11:45 Ace wrote:
Ok, the KingPin has arrived. Time to stop this nonsense and get this game started.
First of all, I'm going to be brutally honest here. Some of you playing are newbies. That isn't to say you're bad, but more so that you haven't had the experience of playing a true cut throat game of Mafia. The last 2 games were honestly so bland - aka too much talking about clues, that it wasn't really that much high level strategy going on.
Like Ver said, talking too much about clues early is USELESS. Don't try to convince anyone that someone is Mafia based on clues for the first few days. It's nice to mention it, but do not make it a central point of focus. MTF and Camlito are the best 2 clue analyzers along with Plexa that we ever had. That was in Mafia 2 and it took a ton of planning + input from various people to even come to some of those conclusions. Chances are you won't be able to do much with clues this game unless you've got some additional proof. What I mean by this is catch someone on behavior analysis + clues + shoddy voting or motives. Saying "this clue points to Ace" is just stupid.
Knowing this, I'm not surprised LL and Zato -1 are already accusing me. Look people, especially for you new players - I'm one of the biggest targets in any Mafia game. Every time. I'm super valuable. I catch people in lies all the time and I always save townies from the obvious bandwagon deaths. L and Zato may not have blatantly accused me but they just planted a seed of suspicion on me of all people, based on some wild clues. Be very wary of light weight accusations like this.
I'm running for Mayor of course. But in the event I don't win, my vote is possibly going to Ver. The only reason I might not vote for him is because he has elected to kill BC which is just as bad as L/Zato wanting me dead. Our most valuable players should be saved unless it's blatantly obvious they are Mafia. There are 3 teams this game, don't even bother trying to murder all of our good players so soon.
Ace you really need to give people more incentive if you expect them to vote for you. You should try and post something with more substance, then just "I'M ACE VOTE FOR ME". Some healthy mafia accusations never hurt anyone, I agree that clues aren't the most helpful early game as you can easily screw up, but its not any worse then just lynching a random player. my incentive is there. I'm already the shining beacon of innocence I always am. If I tried to do anything radically different from normal I'd be labeled as Mafia and gg'd. Ace, if you should have acting radical like me every game so that you can do whatever you want...but then it makes getting a mayor role really hard.. If only people could see pass my image and vote for me..I f only people could see pass the image in my profile and see it's true meaning...
Please stop begging for votes... try to put forth some constructive ideas
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Actually, I figured that a topic related to our current conversation should be addressed;
As the town, how do we win given the game format?
Faction win conditions:
The town must eliminate at least 8 members of each family AND must outnumber the surviving mafia.
The Gambino family must eliminate the Sumiyoshi family.
The Sumiyoshi family must eliminate the Gambino family.
This post says that 18 mafia need to die for us to win. Compared to us, mafia have 6 times our kp per day/night cycle. If we want to win, are we forced to rely on mafia cross hits?
I mean, seriously, given the format, it seems like town's main job is to out mafia with dts/try to soak hits on greens with medics, and just survive the mafia crossrape. If that's the case, shouldn't our main objective be to throw up as much clue information as possible? Unlike typical 1 mafia team games with clues, even if one team is deadset on keeping someone underwraps, its in the interest of someone from the opposing team to out them.
So, two questions that I want people to think about:
1) What's our job as town? Survive? Hunt mafia? You tell me.
2) How do we react to information? Even classic things like DT gambits are changed in this game; If someone from a team that's winning wants to delay the town a turn, he can accuse someone of the opposite team and be 'confirmed' as a DT for a day. If he's killed as a claimaint, his team is still ahead, especially if his move lowers his opponent's kp.
For 2) I think that information given to the town on the whole will be more 'true' in that there is no single underground group controlling information flow.
Anyways, feel free to talk about this, and I still think you're red Ace.
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Whats the true meaning in your profile picture Chezinu?
Or should I just be ignoring him? xd
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On February 14 2010 12:49 meeple wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2010 12:47 Chezinu wrote:On February 14 2010 12:44 Ace wrote:On February 14 2010 12:40 Fulgrim wrote:On February 14 2010 11:45 Ace wrote:
Ok, the KingPin has arrived. Time to stop this nonsense and get this game started.
First of all, I'm going to be brutally honest here. Some of you playing are newbies. That isn't to say you're bad, but more so that you haven't had the experience of playing a true cut throat game of Mafia. The last 2 games were honestly so bland - aka too much talking about clues, that it wasn't really that much high level strategy going on.
Like Ver said, talking too much about clues early is USELESS. Don't try to convince anyone that someone is Mafia based on clues for the first few days. It's nice to mention it, but do not make it a central point of focus. MTF and Camlito are the best 2 clue analyzers along with Plexa that we ever had. That was in Mafia 2 and it took a ton of planning + input from various people to even come to some of those conclusions. Chances are you won't be able to do much with clues this game unless you've got some additional proof. What I mean by this is catch someone on behavior analysis + clues + shoddy voting or motives. Saying "this clue points to Ace" is just stupid.
Knowing this, I'm not surprised LL and Zato -1 are already accusing me. Look people, especially for you new players - I'm one of the biggest targets in any Mafia game. Every time. I'm super valuable. I catch people in lies all the time and I always save townies from the obvious bandwagon deaths. L and Zato may not have blatantly accused me but they just planted a seed of suspicion on me of all people, based on some wild clues. Be very wary of light weight accusations like this.
I'm running for Mayor of course. But in the event I don't win, my vote is possibly going to Ver. The only reason I might not vote for him is because he has elected to kill BC which is just as bad as L/Zato wanting me dead. Our most valuable players should be saved unless it's blatantly obvious they are Mafia. There are 3 teams this game, don't even bother trying to murder all of our good players so soon.
Ace you really need to give people more incentive if you expect them to vote for you. You should try and post something with more substance, then just "I'M ACE VOTE FOR ME". Some healthy mafia accusations never hurt anyone, I agree that clues aren't the most helpful early game as you can easily screw up, but its not any worse then just lynching a random player. my incentive is there. I'm already the shining beacon of innocence I always am. If I tried to do anything radically different from normal I'd be labeled as Mafia and gg'd. Ace, if you should have acting radical like me every game so that you can do whatever you want...but then it makes getting a mayor role really hard.. If only people could see pass my image and vote for me..I f only people could see pass the image in my profile and see it's true meaning... Please stop begging for votes... try to put forth some constructive ideas
OK, I shall state the obvious and call it constructive ideas:
1. clues are good to start conversation on day 1 and provide a way to accuse people without really accusing then so that you can perform behavior analysis
2. If you don't want me to read your role, don't reply to my pm's
3. I'm the safest person to elect as mayor. Why? No one trusts me. Think about it.
4. There is no such thing as a "waste post" That is just an excuse to get people to talk, distract, or focus attention.
5. I am insane and don't play like normal player - have fun reading me
6. You don't want to kill me
7. I will not listen to "town" aka mafia when I am mayor
8. I will kill both mafia teams equally?
9. How will I do this -- I won't, It's called a bluff.
10. I have no idea what is considered a "constructive idea" in this game...
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So whats different about this game then our previous games is that the mafia want to USE our DT's and medics, and not kill them. Just throwing this idea out there for discussion: What would happen if one of our DT's revealed themselves? What would the mafia do? Waste a hit on them when they will probably be receiving medic protection? I doubt it. Any thoughts about this?
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@ L, I think we as the town need to survive until the Mafia numbers are lower, like less then 5 per team. During that time it is more important to figure out who belongs to what family than it is to actually kill them, so towards the end we kill the right people, instead of helping the leading family win. That's what I think at least, we need to kill the right mafia members at the right time rather than just killing all mafia members asap.
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On February 14 2010 12:51 L wrote:Actually, I figured that a topic related to our current conversation should be addressed; As the town, how do we win given the game format? Show nested quote +Faction win conditions:
The town must eliminate at least 8 members of each family AND must outnumber the surviving mafia.
The Gambino family must eliminate the Sumiyoshi family.
The Sumiyoshi family must eliminate the Gambino family. This post says that 18 mafia need to die for us to win. Compared to us, mafia have 6 times our kp per day/night cycle. If we want to win, are we forced to rely on mafia cross hits? I mean, seriously, given the format, it seems like town's main job is to out mafia with dts/try to soak hits on greens with medics, and just survive the mafia crossrape. If that's the case, shouldn't our main objective be to throw up as much clue information as possible? Unlike typical 1 mafia team games with clues, even if one team is deadset on keeping someone underwraps, its in the interest of someone from the opposing team to out them. So, two questions that I want people to think about: 1) What's our job as town? Survive? Hunt mafia? You tell me. 2) How do we react to information? Even classic things like DT gambits are changed in this game; If someone from a team that's winning wants to delay the town a turn, he can accuse someone of the opposite team and be 'confirmed' as a DT for a day. If he's killed as a claimaint, his team is still ahead, especially if his move lowers his opponent's kp. For 2) I think that information given to the town on the whole will be more 'true' in that there is no single underground group controlling information flow. Anyways, feel free to talk about this, and I still think you're red Ace.
Relying on Mafia crosshits is obviously a big part of the game... although I don't think that we should throw up as much clue information as possible (Since perhaps,you're using the game format to strengthen your theory... )
I think we should hunt mafia... the same thing we normally do. I agree that reacting to information will be a bit more interesting though
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It might be funny at the end, if we have to use medics to protect the losing mafia family xd
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On February 14 2010 11:56 Mystlord wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2010 11:45 Ace wrote:
Knowing this, I'm not surprised LL and Zato -1 are already accusing me. Look people, especially for you new players - I'm one of the biggest targets in any Mafia game. Every time. I'm super valuable. I catch people in lies all the time and I always save townies from the obvious bandwagon deaths. L and Zato may not have blatantly accused me but they just planted a seed of suspicion on me of all people, based on some wild clues. Be very wary of light weight accusations like this.
Such elitism. Regardless, I'm still all for incorporating clues into Day 1 discussion. For instance, we now have a defense from you, which is good for building a profile, whether you're innocent or not. lol. get to know Ace. he talks like this, gets killed by people screaming 'elitism', then turns out to be correct. listen to him. there's a lot of merit in what he is saying. especially the newbies thing - you really shouldn't spam the thread about clues and instead should discuss strategies or, depending on how you play, get PMing with suspicious people or analyze posts. clue analysis is the LAST thing we need right now.
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On February 14 2010 12:17 Abenson wrote:
L v Ace...
Flame war between vets o.o it's like that in every mafia game. in reality, they love each other.
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On February 14 2010 13:01 redtooth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2010 12:17 Abenson wrote:
L v Ace...
Flame war between vets o.o it's like that in every mafia game. in reality, they love each other.
Do tell everyone the secret that what people say publicly isn't what they are thinking/saying in pm's!!!!
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-confused-
Now what o.o
What do we do?
the mafia have like 6 kill power O.O
other than electing mayor i can't think of any other productive thing to do TT.TT
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On February 14 2010 12:55 Chezinu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2010 12:49 meeple wrote:On February 14 2010 12:47 Chezinu wrote:On February 14 2010 12:44 Ace wrote:On February 14 2010 12:40 Fulgrim wrote:On February 14 2010 11:45 Ace wrote:
Ok, the KingPin has arrived. Time to stop this nonsense and get this game started.
First of all, I'm going to be brutally honest here. Some of you playing are newbies. That isn't to say you're bad, but more so that you haven't had the experience of playing a true cut throat game of Mafia. The last 2 games were honestly so bland - aka too much talking about clues, that it wasn't really that much high level strategy going on.
Like Ver said, talking too much about clues early is USELESS. Don't try to convince anyone that someone is Mafia based on clues for the first few days. It's nice to mention it, but do not make it a central point of focus. MTF and Camlito are the best 2 clue analyzers along with Plexa that we ever had. That was in Mafia 2 and it took a ton of planning + input from various people to even come to some of those conclusions. Chances are you won't be able to do much with clues this game unless you've got some additional proof. What I mean by this is catch someone on behavior analysis + clues + shoddy voting or motives. Saying "this clue points to Ace" is just stupid.
Knowing this, I'm not surprised LL and Zato -1 are already accusing me. Look people, especially for you new players - I'm one of the biggest targets in any Mafia game. Every time. I'm super valuable. I catch people in lies all the time and I always save townies from the obvious bandwagon deaths. L and Zato may not have blatantly accused me but they just planted a seed of suspicion on me of all people, based on some wild clues. Be very wary of light weight accusations like this.
I'm running for Mayor of course. But in the event I don't win, my vote is possibly going to Ver. The only reason I might not vote for him is because he has elected to kill BC which is just as bad as L/Zato wanting me dead. Our most valuable players should be saved unless it's blatantly obvious they are Mafia. There are 3 teams this game, don't even bother trying to murder all of our good players so soon.
Ace you really need to give people more incentive if you expect them to vote for you. You should try and post something with more substance, then just "I'M ACE VOTE FOR ME". Some healthy mafia accusations never hurt anyone, I agree that clues aren't the most helpful early game as you can easily screw up, but its not any worse then just lynching a random player. my incentive is there. I'm already the shining beacon of innocence I always am. If I tried to do anything radically different from normal I'd be labeled as Mafia and gg'd. Ace, if you should have acting radical like me every game so that you can do whatever you want...but then it makes getting a mayor role really hard.. If only people could see pass my image and vote for me..I f only people could see pass the image in my profile and see it's true meaning... Please stop begging for votes... try to put forth some constructive ideas OK, I shall state the obvious and call it constructive ideas: 1. clues are good to start conversation on day 1 and provide a way to accuse people without really accusing then so that you can perform behavior analysis 2. If you don't want me to read your role, don't reply to my pm's 3. I'm the safest person to elect as mayor. Why? No one trusts me. Think about it. 4. There is no such thing as a "waste post" That is just an excuse to get people to talk, distract, or focus attention. 5. I am insane and don't play like normal player - have fun reading me 6. You don't want to kill me 7. I will not listen to "town" aka mafia when I am mayor 8. I will kill both mafia teams equally? 9. How will I do this -- I won't, It's called a bluff. 10. I have no idea what is considered a "constructive idea" in this game...
1. You're right, I agree
2.Bragging about how good you are?
3. Thought about it... not really that safe
4. There are waste posts... but usually used by mafia to distract the town
5. That makes it worse if you're the mayor... since we'd want to be able to read you
6.Hint about role?
7. Not listening to the town, and going off on your own tangents, especially when no one apprently trusts you isn't all that helpful
8/9
10. Something that adds to the discussion at hand? Or creates new discussion?
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EPT
