EPTSamsung win the 2017 World Championship! - Page 85
| Forum Index > LoL Tournaments |
Join the LiquidLegends 2017 Worlds Pick'em Group! Ban bets!! Ban bets will continue for the duration of Worlds. You can place bet at any phase of Worlds; on individual games, series, whatever your heart desires. Bans will be enacted the day after Worlds ends, to ensure everyone can still post on LL while Worlds is ongoing. glhf~ - Winners in bold - better, better's win condition, bettee [ban duration for loser] - Yorbon, EDG fails to make it out of groups, vs DarkCore [1 week] - Sleight, Fnatic doesn't make it out of groups, vs AlterKot [2:1 weeks] - Apex, Gigabyte getting out of groups as a 1st place seed + TSM will finish 1st in their groups + Samsung will fail to qualify from their group + C9 will get out of their groups, vs JimmiC [1 week] - geript, Korean teams will win a combined 17 or more games in Groups, vs Gahlo [1 month] - geript, NA teams will win a combined 7 or less games in Groups, vs Torchise [1 month] - zer0das, SKT doesn't win Worlds, vs no one [1 year] - Zato-1, NA teams combined wins will be greater than or equal to EU teams combined wins, vs Yorbon [1 month] | ||
|
ghrur
United States3786 Posts
| ||
|
chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
| ||
|
Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
At least I got that stupid icon for my Pick 'Em out of it. | ||
|
General_Winter
United States719 Posts
But 'look' of the games aside, when they need to win they just win. | ||
|
geript
10024 Posts
| ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
In RNG's three losses yesterday, Faker's Galio helped SKT keep tempo but I definitely feel like it's a double edged sword. Just like in the Inven reaction thread, even Korean fans were questioning in real time the constant Galio pick by SKT. If SKT wins, everyone's gonna ask why didn't RNG ban away Galio from Faker. If SKT loses, everyone's gonna ask the opposite, why didn't kkoma put Faker on a champion that he could deal damage and carry team fights. (Remind anyone of fan criticism of Faker or Bjergsen on Lulu?) Taking Faker's 5 games of Galio anomaly aside, I can't really criticize RNG on their first round bans. Maybe they could've banned Galio instead of Xayah, but RNG won Games 1 and 3, so that point is somewhat moot. Also, if you're a team drafting against SKT, doesn't it make more sense to target bans at Huni (which RNG did with the constant Jayce bans) and shrink the Jungle/Support pools? Faker's champion pool is immense and he will impact the game, regardless if he's on Galio or not. More importantly, it seems like RNG at least had a plan with how to deal with Galio by counterpicking with Malz twice. You could argue how effective of a counterpick Malz is but XiaoHu didn't come close to losing lane, so it became more of an issue with RNG's execution mid and late game. | ||
|
Skitter
United States899 Posts
| ||
|
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On October 29 2017 09:44 Skitter wrote: they could have won g4/5 with the drafts. the drafts weren't really good, but shouldnt be used to substitute royal's real problems in that series RNG definitely had the opportunity to win both G4/5 but botched the team fight around Baron hard both times. I thought SKT wasn't on the same page for much of G3, Bang especially, but then RNG pulls the same uncoordinated nonsense and blow the series themselves. When you say drafts weren't really good, are you just saying it as a euphemism or do you legitimately think there was some ban or pick RNG could've/should've done? http://lol.esportswikis.com/wiki/2017_Season_World_Championship/Main_Event/Picks_and_Bans/Bracket_Stage Show me where. | ||
|
Skitter
United States899 Posts
I don't think Ryze was the right mid to put xiaohu on in game 4.He was prob the best player in the series yet couldnt show any of it on ryze, esp against galio. His previous ryze game when he was delivered so much early gold yet even then he couldn't have that much impact, and getting gifted early leads isn't something u should rely on. They had no engage in game 5 with a comp that wanted to fight so much. This could have been fixed if they picked an engage jungler to put mlxg on, Lee isn't the right champ for that past 20 minutes. Plus they picked lee with 1 winning lane, at best. In general: I wanted to see more early game-based comps out of RNG, and more winning lanes | ||
|
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
XiaoHu's Ryze was fine fwiw. He was literally gifted a kill early cause SKT did that 2v2 skirmish with Faker out of mana. "Not having much impact" seems to be the story of RNG's demise in the last two games. I couldn't see XiaoHu or Uzi stepping up to get RNG the win. @Lee: Both teams came into this series with some odd pocket picks in mind. Blitz and Noc didn't pan out for either team so it ended up as a reset to a Bo3. I like the idea of early play making champs, which everyone will admit that's what Lee is. But RNG didn't expect that level 2 J4 roam bot and that really threw a wrench into RNG's early game. From there, RNG was pretty nonexistent. They weren't behind until that botched MXLG pick but RNG still didn't do anything proactive either. In terms of laning matchups, I agree that G4 looked pretty abysmal for RNG. Getting pushed in all three lanes is hard but they really needed godlike wombocombos. They only got that one when SKT tried to siege Mid but that wasn't enough. | ||
|
Slusher
United States19143 Posts
| ||
|
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
I think the casters mentioned this but in theory, Paranoia seems really good in tandem with other skills/champs in a team fight. So for G2, it should've been Uzi's going off with Spray and Pray while MLXG denied vision and preventing SKT from jumping onto Uzi. Except that didn't even happen in a single team fight that game. At best, I assume RNG took the Noc pick because it looked great on paper and had the novelty factor this Worlds from that Gigabyte Marines game. Much like how Wolf incorporated Blitz/Leona into his pool after SKT's series against MSF. | ||
|
Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On October 29 2017 08:27 NeoIllusions wrote: I understand drafting criticism is a common occurrence in highly competitive games and even at time warranted, I think fans pointing at drafts as the primary reason for a loss has taken a whole other level this year. In RNG's three losses yesterday, Faker's Galio helped SKT keep tempo but I definitely feel like it's a double edged sword. Just like in the Inven reaction thread, even Korean fans were questioning in real time the constant Galio pick by SKT. If SKT wins, everyone's gonna ask why didn't RNG ban away Galio from Faker. If SKT loses, everyone's gonna ask the opposite, why didn't kkoma put Faker on a champion that he could deal damage and carry team fights. (Remind anyone of fan criticism of Faker or Bjergsen on Lulu?) Taking Faker's 5 games of Galio anomaly aside, I can't really criticize RNG on their first round bans. Maybe they could've banned Galio instead of Xayah, but RNG won Games 1 and 3, so that point is somewhat moot. Also, if you're a team drafting against SKT, doesn't it make more sense to target bans at Huni (which RNG did with the constant Jayce bans) and shrink the Jungle/Support pools? Faker's champion pool is immense and he will impact the game, regardless if he's on Galio or not. More importantly, it seems like RNG at least had a plan with how to deal with Galio by counterpicking with Malz twice. You could argue how effective of a counterpick Malz is but XiaoHu didn't come close to losing lane, so it became more of an issue with RNG's execution mid and late game. If you're putting Faker on Galio on purpose, fine. But if you're doing that, why would you ban Jayce(the prominant physical damage mid in the meta) all 5 games while putting Faker on a tank that leans tankier against magic damage while constantly putting your own mid on champions that get punished hard by Adaptive Helm(Malz/Ryze/Corki)? | ||
|
cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
Regarding Galio, I think it was fine to give it to Faker a few times, but you are against SKT, so your goal in every game should be to have a 5k gold lead pre-25 mins. Thus, the Ryze picks were bad. They got lucky in G3. It just provides so little, particularly into Galio. How many good Ryze ults did you see? Uzi may have deserved a rare losing MVP in this series. His gold leads in losing lanes, just shutting down everything bang wanted to do in lane. Faker being a beast putting out fires and roaming without losing any CS makes him MVP, but people who think Uzi wasn't clearly the #2 player are high. Xiawho? Guy is just a generic midlaner. MLXG, same. | ||
|
scrubtastic
1166 Posts
First bans eliminated Gragas/Seju, first pick trist eliminated J4. My guess is that they were shooting for Nocturne and they didn't expect SKT to ban it away since RNG lost with it. Unfortunately for them, SKT banned it away in phase 2 The only other two junglers MLXG played in Worlds were Reksai and Lee, and it's a game 5, MLXG probably wanted something he was comfortable with instead of something unpracticed. *edit* Holy shit everything is going right for WE, wonder if this game 1 is gonna tilt Samsung | ||
|
chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
On October 29 2017 01:10 chipmonklord17 wrote: Best timeline still possible. SKT vs WE final would be incredibly hype Do we live in best timeline? | ||
|
DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
At best, I assume RNG took the Noc pick because it looked great on paper and had the novelty factor this Worlds from that Gigabyte Marines game. Much like how Wolf incorporated Blitz/Leona into his pool after SKT's series against MSF. Noc pick was really awful though. Leona/Blitz work because they can always make plays, but Noc is almost trolling right now, other junglers are clearly better. RNG really threw that game in the draft phase, especially because MLXG playde pretty poorly in the latter half of the series, Noc and Lee are big playmakers that need to go off or they become a liability. If you're putting Faker on Galio on purpose, fine. But if you're doing that, why would you ban Jayce(the prominant physical damage mid in the meta) all 5 games while putting Faker on a tank that leans tankier against magic damage while constantly putting your own mid on champions that get punished hard by Adaptive Helm(Malz/Ryze/Corki)? Malz is not picked to kill Galio, he's picked to shut down someone in team fights. Remember the SSG game where Crown was getting destroyed in lane but still wrecked in fights? Ryze is technically a strong champion, just never seems to actually work out. Corki blows squishies up, and Xiaohu is good on him. Jayce is pretty strong right now, there's a good chance that SKT would have banned or picked it themselves. Huni probably was really hoping it would go through the draft, insta lock for the guy. | ||
|
zer0das
United States8519 Posts
| ||
|
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
But then in team fights, Crown just neutered Mystic since no one has QSS yet. CuVee popping off helps as well | ||
|
cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On October 29 2017 17:26 DarkCore wrote: My theory behind the Ryze pick into Galio was that RNG wanted Xiaohu to be able to exert a similar map pressure that Faker's Galio had in the other games. This only partly worked out. Noc pick was really awful though. Leona/Blitz work because they can always make plays, but Noc is almost trolling right now, other junglers are clearly better. RNG really threw that game in the draft phase, especially because MLXG playde pretty poorly in the latter half of the series, Noc and Lee are big playmakers that need to go off or they become a liability. Disagree. IMO the noct/lee picks weren't bad at all. Noct is supposed to snowball toplane (making Galio unable to counter the ganks), and Lee is supposed to snowball the whole game, because SKT got Jarvan, and you don't want to play a game against SKT that you haven't snowballed. I still think Ryze into Galio to counter his roams is silly. Like, we all know toplane Jayce, AD Kennen, Jax, Irelia, Camille, etc take TP, but they don't want to use that TP at the same time an enemy Maokai, Mega Gnar, Naut, etc is TPing. They take TP because they probably are going to die a few times earlygame and want to not lose EXP/gold, and also to splitpush without 100% giving up a 4v5 at baron. A full HP Jayce TPing to baron at the same time as a full HP Maokai (basically Ryze and Galio ulting somewhere) is a terrible loss for the Jayce. Jayce pushes in and bullies maokai, then takes towers, can Ryze do anything to Galio lategame? Nah. | ||
| ||
