EPTBut TSM's inability to adjust in draft and over-corrections from last year to this year's World's show that the support staff isn't good enough, which has always been a question mark for every NA team.
Samsung win the 2017 World Championship! - Page 54
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Join the LiquidLegends 2017 Worlds Pick'em Group! Ban bets!! Ban bets will continue for the duration of Worlds. You can place bet at any phase of Worlds; on individual games, series, whatever your heart desires. Bans will be enacted the day after Worlds ends, to ensure everyone can still post on LL while Worlds is ongoing. glhf~ - Winners in bold - better, better's win condition, bettee [ban duration for loser] - Yorbon, EDG fails to make it out of groups, vs DarkCore [1 week] - Sleight, Fnatic doesn't make it out of groups, vs AlterKot [2:1 weeks] - Apex, Gigabyte getting out of groups as a 1st place seed + TSM will finish 1st in their groups + Samsung will fail to qualify from their group + C9 will get out of their groups, vs JimmiC [1 week] - geript, Korean teams will win a combined 17 or more games in Groups, vs Gahlo [1 month] - geript, NA teams will win a combined 7 or less games in Groups, vs Torchise [1 month] - zer0das, SKT doesn't win Worlds, vs no one [1 year] - Zato-1, NA teams combined wins will be greater than or equal to EU teams combined wins, vs Yorbon [1 month] | ||
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Kinie
United States3106 Posts
But TSM's inability to adjust in draft and over-corrections from last year to this year's World's show that the support staff isn't good enough, which has always been a question mark for every NA team. | ||
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lilwisper
United States2515 Posts
On October 14 2017 19:40 AlterKot wrote: NA MAD LMS JELLY OOPS WE DID IT AGAIN NA can't even be mad. You start 2-1 in a "gimmie" group and go 1-3 getting buttfucked by an 0-5 team. | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
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lilwisper
United States2515 Posts
On October 14 2017 19:45 geript wrote: I'm curious what Reggie does to shake things up. Sven is done #1 for sure. | ||
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Kinie
United States3106 Posts
On October 14 2017 19:44 lilwisper wrote: NA can't even be mad. You start 2-1 in a "gimmie" group and go 1-3 getting buttfucked by an 0-5 team. Oh, I'm sure NA fans and TSM fans are going to rip into the team, and they deserve every criticism. This was TSM's best chance to make a statement on the World's stage. And the only thing we see is that TSM can't play on the big stage. | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
I doubt it. He should be, but Reggie seems to trust Bjerg and Sven is basically his call. | ||
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Kinie
United States3106 Posts
Is the mistakes on the players or the support staff? And at this point, I feel like the issue is with the support staff first and I shake that up. Parth needs to not be the pick/ban coach, and they need to fix their fucking Goldilocks syndrome and find that sweet spot between being good in either early or late game, and just be decent to average in both early and late game. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
Love all these teams saying "we don't want to focus on early game victory!". Turns out none of them make it through groups. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
Sven hit level 6 at 5:45 from the 3 buff. There was a full minute between Sven hitting level 6 and Maxlore hitting level 6. Sven first pressed his R key at 23 minutes into the match. Maxlore uses his ultimate some 6 times before Sven uses his. Q>Flash>R something or just AFK in fountain. | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On October 14 2017 19:52 Kinie wrote: At this point, the question I think should be on Reggie's mind is this: Is the mistakes on the players or the support staff? And at this point, I feel like the issue is with the support staff first and I shake that up. Parth needs to not be the pick/ban coach, and they need to fix their fucking Goldilocks syndrome and find that sweet spot between being good in either early or late game, and just be decent to average in both early and late game. Lol. Support staff doesn't matter if your players are bad. | ||
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Kinie
United States3106 Posts
On October 14 2017 19:52 Numy wrote: Feels so good. Another year another saltmine. Love all these teams saying "we don't want to focus on early game victory!". Turns out none of them make it through groups. Note that most of the teams that are saying that are trying to emulate the Korean teams, who can actually do that shit and pull it off because they have the experience, talent, and training thanks to their support staff to do it. | ||
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lilwisper
United States2515 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On October 14 2017 19:57 Kinie wrote: Note that most of the teams that are saying that are trying to emulate the Korean teams, who can actually do that shit and pull it off because they have the experience, talent, and training thanks to their support staff to do it. Yea I never got the whole "we want to play like best Korean teams" translated to be super passive don't do anything. LZ is one of the most aggressive teams at worlds. SKT is controlled aggressive with proactive "lock" type style. Only SSG is super passive but even they can put on the hurt if need be. KT is aggro too. Even the old SSW and SSB were proactive teams. It's baffling really. Honestly wonder if TSM with WT was a better team than TSM with Double. It's the old CLG issue. CLG relied so much on doublelift that he warped their style to always be focused purely on him even if that wasn't the best option. Is TSM with Double trying to be too risk adverse believing in his ability to carry? Why does TSM with WT have a good early game pro-activity? | ||
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Kinie
United States3106 Posts
On October 14 2017 19:54 nafta wrote: Lol. Support staff doesn't matter if your players are bad. Ok, for the moment let's assume that the weakest players on TSM are Sven and Hauntzer. You can only replace one of them, as Bjerg is now fully NA for next year. And Bjerg likes Sven too much as a person/friend to not want him off the team. So you get rid of Hauntzer... For whom? You need a top lane that has experience, can speak English, and can learn/adjust to new metas to play carries, split pushers, and super tanks. This still doesn't correct your draft issues, which even us plebs can identify, so you know the professional teams are aware of it too, and you saw them exploit it. | ||
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lilwisper
United States2515 Posts
On October 14 2017 20:01 Numy wrote: Yea I never got the whole "we want to play like best Korean teams" translated to be super passive don't do anything. LZ is one of the most aggressive teams at worlds. SKT is controlled aggressive with proactive "lock" type style. Only SSG is super passive but even they can put on the hurt if need be. KT is aggro too. Even the old SSW and SSB were proactive teams. It's baffling really. Honestly wonder if TSM with WT was a better team than TSM with Double. It's the old CLG issue. CLG relied so much on doublelift that he warped their style to always be focused purely on him even if that wasn't the best option. Is TSM with Double trying to be too risk adverse believing in his ability to carry? Why does TSM with WT have a good early game pro-activity? If anything wouldn't DL being good allow you to go more ham since you can always fall back to it? Doesn't TSM in general always feel one dimensional when going into worlds? | ||
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On October 14 2017 20:01 Kinie wrote: Ok, for the moment let's assume that the weakest players on TSM are Sven and Hauntzer. You can only replace one of them, as Bjerg is now fully NA for next year. And Bjerg likes Sven too much as a person/friend to not want him off the team. So you get rid of Hauntzer... For whom? You need a top lane that has experience, can speak English, and can learn/adjust to new metas to play carries, split pushers, and super tanks. This still doesn't correct your draft issues, which even us plebs can identify, so you know the professional teams are aware of it too, and you saw them exploit it. Hauntzer is not a problem. He played perfectly fine. At this point they need a jungler and they need to not make him worse the longer he plays on this team. Next step is getting a new ad. First ROX now LZ are 2 teams without sponsors. This obsession of always blaming support staff in the west is stupid. | ||
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Kinie
United States3106 Posts
On October 14 2017 20:06 lilwisper wrote: If anything wouldn't DL being good allow you to go more ham since you can always fall back to it? Doesn't TSM in general always feel one dimensional when going into worlds? Again, I feel like TSM's biggest issues come World's are them being slow to adjust/learn from week 1 going into week 2. Every time they go to World's they do well week 1 and go 3-0 or 2-1, but week 2 they get found out and don't adjust to the Worlds meta and then go 0-3 or 1-3 after tiebreakers and get kicked out or barely scrape into quarterfinals where they get stomped by a Korean team. And compared to every other NA team, C9 are the only team who seem to adjust from week to week, if not from one game to the next. Which is why the meme of "C9: NA's Last Hope" comes true once again. | ||
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
I don't see anyone on the free market/reasonable buyout that could replace the likes of Doublelift. Unless you want Forg1ven to join TSM xD. TSM should just do it like other teams, find a talented soloQ jungler and mould him into what the team needs. Either that or find a godlike jungle shotcalling playmaker who can fill in any lacking skills Bjerg has. Still second in Pick'Em, only 1 chance I get first. At least it looks like my place is secure. | ||
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