|
Join the LiquidLegends 2017 Worlds Pick'em Group!
Ban bets!!Ban bets will continue for the duration of Worlds. You can place bet at any phase of Worlds; on individual games, series, whatever your heart desires. Bans will be enacted the day after Worlds ends, to ensure everyone can still post on LL while Worlds is ongoing. glhf~ - Winners in bold- better, better's win condition, bettee [ban duration for loser]- Yorbon, EDG fails to make it out of groups, vs DarkCore [1 week] - Sleight, Fnatic doesn't make it out of groups, vs AlterKot [2:1 weeks] - Apex, Gigabyte getting out of groups as a 1st place seed + TSM will finish 1st in their groups + Samsung will fail to qualify from their group + C9 will get out of their groups, vs JimmiC [1 week] - geript, Korean teams will win a combined 17 or more games in Groups, vs Gahlo [1 month] - geript, NA teams will win a combined 7 or less games in Groups, vs Torchise [1 month] - zer0das, SKT doesn't win Worlds, vs no one [1 year] - Zato-1, NA teams combined wins will be greater than or equal to EU teams combined wins, vs Yorbon [1 month] |
On China, watching only two games of the finals between RNG and EDG, it feels RNG was overall decent, but made some mistakes that might prove major against top teams, like counterjungling without lane support. EDG seemed ok individually, but that's about it. Very little synergy between the members though.
RNG didn't play very well in the finals, I think nerves got to Uzi. Also iBoy is a pretty insane new pickup, considering his debut was in the playoffs. I think the RNG vs WE series is a better indicator of skill.
|
On Travis' League show one of the cohosts (I think it was Kelsey) argued in favor of the decision by saying something to the effect of "You can get Huni to play like Untara, but you'll never be able to get Untara to play like Huni" and I definitely agree. Its much easier to tone down Huni than teach Untara Huni's aggressive instincts given the few weeks they have.
Taking the junglers was definitely the no brainer part of the decision
|
United States37500 Posts
I'd beg to differ. SKT doesn't need a hard carry Top like Huni is used to playing. If anything, Top is a position that's currently more tank or split push focused and that's more Untara than Huni. Aggressive Top laners is a meme. Unless you're a team that's specifically built around Top, like Longzhu is, most teams would prefer an adaptive Top.
We've seen Huni tilt off the face of the earth in Bo5 before, where he tries to split push but dies 1v1 off screen. If kkoma can finally rein that in, then maybe Huni's strengths will shine at Worlds, without his glaring detriments.
|
I think Huni was the better choice ot take if they are focusing on beating Longzhu simply because Huni in the finals was able to match Khan in a Carry vs Carry match up although Huni did some help to do it. Outside o that Umtara is the better choice so this to me speaks they want to beat Longzhu more than anything.
|
United States37500 Posts
If that was one of kkoma's deciding factors for bringing Huni, I can live with it.
|
Wasn't the only reason Huni was able to do anything in the game they won in the finals because their jungler finally had to disrupt Cuzz?
|
On September 17 2017 03:44 chipmonklord17 wrote:
On Travis' League show one of the cohosts (I think it was Kelsey) argued in favor of the decision by saying something to the effect of "You can get Huni to play like Untara, but you'll never be able to get Untara to play like Huni" and I definitely agree. Its much easier to tone down Huni than teach Untara Huni's aggressive instincts given the few weeks they have.
Taking the junglers was definitely the no brainer part of the decision
Bahaha, yeah it's easy to become the "long suffering top laner who plays tanks all the time and gets thrown under the bus for the team" when you're used to playing super aggressive and having a lot of your teams resources. Spoken like someone who has never played top lane, ever. I have hard time believing Huni could even achieve a Balls level of play with that style. Pretty sure SKT is going to get dumpstered this worlds by someone, and it is going to be because Huni is incapable of adapting.
|
I will say that it's easier to tone down an aggressive players tendencies than it is to make a safe player more aggressive, but if it hasn't happened by now with Huni on SKT, I don't have faith that it will. Whether or not they win Worlds will come down to if the jungle position can bail out the top half of the map.
|
Pretty sure SKT is going to get dumpstered this worlds by someone, and it is going to be because Huni is incapable of adapting.
Lol, that's quite a prediction. Especially because the only teams I can imagine dumpstering SKT are LZ and the CN teams when they play their absolute best. And I don't think SKT has ever lost a game badly in World's playoffs, even a tilting Huni isn't going to change that.
Whether or not they win Worlds will come down to if the jungle position can bail out the top half of the map.
You guys make it sound like Huni is hyper aggressive, borderline trolling and doesn't carry games. There are not a lot of players who can win lane naturally against Huni, and it is the junglers job to take care of the lanes. Some teams focus more on other lanes at the cost of other lanes (like FLY), but Faker also tends to naturally win his lane, and bot usually at least breaks even. So Peanut/Blank taking care of top lane is not a bad thing.
|
Czech Republic11293 Posts
On September 17 2017 07:38 zer0das wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2017 03:44 chipmonklord17 wrote:
On Travis' League show one of the cohosts (I think it was Kelsey) argued in favor of the decision by saying something to the effect of "You can get Huni to play like Untara, but you'll never be able to get Untara to play like Huni" and I definitely agree. Its much easier to tone down Huni than teach Untara Huni's aggressive instincts given the few weeks they have.
Taking the junglers was definitely the no brainer part of the decision Bahaha, yeah it's easy to become the "long suffering top laner who plays tanks all the time and gets thrown under the bus for the team" when you're used to playing super aggressive and having a lot of your teams resources. Spoken like someone who has never played top lane, ever. I have hard time believing Huni could even achieve a Balls level of play with that style. Pretty sure SKT is going to get dumpstered this worlds by someone, and it is going to be because Huni is incapable of adapting.
bookmarking this for when SKT win worlds
|
On September 17 2017 18:08 DarkCore wrote:Show nested quote +Pretty sure SKT is going to get dumpstered this worlds by someone, and it is going to be because Huni is incapable of adapting. Lol, that's quite a prediction. Especially because the only teams I can imagine dumpstering SKT are LZ and the CN teams when they play their absolute best. And I don't think SKT has ever lost a game badly in World's playoffs, even a tilting Huni isn't going to change that. Show nested quote +Whether or not they win Worlds will come down to if the jungle position can bail out the top half of the map. You guys make it sound like Huni is hyper aggressive, borderline trolling and doesn't carry games. There are not a lot of players who can win lane naturally against Huni, and it is the junglers job to take care of the lanes. Some teams focus more on other lanes at the cost of other lanes (like FLY), but Faker also tends to naturally win his lane, and bot usually at least breaks even. So Peanut/Blank taking care of top lane is not a bad thing.
All of SKT's problems this split have come when their bot lane is having trouble, and Bang/Wolf have been shaky this split, and the top isn't able to keep itself afloat by the jungle pressure being pulled to the other side of the map. Huni is more volatile than Untara.
|
On September 17 2017 18:44 Scip wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2017 07:38 zer0das wrote:On September 17 2017 03:44 chipmonklord17 wrote:
On Travis' League show one of the cohosts (I think it was Kelsey) argued in favor of the decision by saying something to the effect of "You can get Huni to play like Untara, but you'll never be able to get Untara to play like Huni" and I definitely agree. Its much easier to tone down Huni than teach Untara Huni's aggressive instincts given the few weeks they have.
Taking the junglers was definitely the no brainer part of the decision Bahaha, yeah it's easy to become the "long suffering top laner who plays tanks all the time and gets thrown under the bus for the team" when you're used to playing super aggressive and having a lot of your teams resources. Spoken like someone who has never played top lane, ever. I have hard time believing Huni could even achieve a Balls level of play with that style. Pretty sure SKT is going to get dumpstered this worlds by someone, and it is going to be because Huni is incapable of adapting. bookmarking this for when SKT win worlds
Kind of surprised people are saying SKT won't win worlds. They were in this exact same position last year yet still won. Only real difference is lack of Bengi. Is bengi the secret sauce for SKT? We'll see I guess but writing them off as not favorites just because they lost LCK is a bit silly.
Am surprised about Huni though. Dude is a tilt lord. Duke while not being the flashiest was nice and stable for the most part. Feel like if they going to lose this worlds it's because when their bot lane isn't firing on all cylinders they can't rely on jungle pressure to help them since top lane is going to be a tiltfest.
|
On September 17 2017 21:04 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2017 18:08 DarkCore wrote:Pretty sure SKT is going to get dumpstered this worlds by someone, and it is going to be because Huni is incapable of adapting. Lol, that's quite a prediction. Especially because the only teams I can imagine dumpstering SKT are LZ and the CN teams when they play their absolute best. And I don't think SKT has ever lost a game badly in World's playoffs, even a tilting Huni isn't going to change that. Whether or not they win Worlds will come down to if the jungle position can bail out the top half of the map. You guys make it sound like Huni is hyper aggressive, borderline trolling and doesn't carry games. There are not a lot of players who can win lane naturally against Huni, and it is the junglers job to take care of the lanes. Some teams focus more on other lanes at the cost of other lanes (like FLY), but Faker also tends to naturally win his lane, and bot usually at least breaks even. So Peanut/Blank taking care of top lane is not a bad thing. All of SKT's problems this split have come when their bot lane is having trouble, and Bang/Wolf have been shaky this split, and the top isn't able to keep itself afloat by the jungle pressure being pulled to the other side of the map. Huni is more volatile than Untara.
To be fair, I think it's a bit more appropriate to say that SKT has had issues when their Bot lane is unable to carry the rest of the teams mistakes. Sure, Wolf and Bang had issues this split; but that's nothing new. Generally at least once per split Bang and Wolf start to look like they've lost their magic. The difference is that for the most part usually their top/jungle/Faker haven't thrown as well. This split we saw the perfect for of that in 7.14 I think it was when SKT went 0-8 for the patch.
|
On September 17 2017 21:47 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2017 18:44 Scip wrote:On September 17 2017 07:38 zer0das wrote:On September 17 2017 03:44 chipmonklord17 wrote:
On Travis' League show one of the cohosts (I think it was Kelsey) argued in favor of the decision by saying something to the effect of "You can get Huni to play like Untara, but you'll never be able to get Untara to play like Huni" and I definitely agree. Its much easier to tone down Huni than teach Untara Huni's aggressive instincts given the few weeks they have.
Taking the junglers was definitely the no brainer part of the decision Bahaha, yeah it's easy to become the "long suffering top laner who plays tanks all the time and gets thrown under the bus for the team" when you're used to playing super aggressive and having a lot of your teams resources. Spoken like someone who has never played top lane, ever. I have hard time believing Huni could even achieve a Balls level of play with that style. Pretty sure SKT is going to get dumpstered this worlds by someone, and it is going to be because Huni is incapable of adapting. bookmarking this for when SKT win worlds Kind of surprised people are saying SKT won't win worlds. They were in this exact same position last year yet still won. Only real difference is lack of Bengi. Is bengi the secret sauce for SKT? We'll see I guess but writing them off as not favorites just because they lost LCK is a bit silly. Am surprised about Huni though. Dude is a tilt lord. Duke while not being the flashiest was nice and stable for the most part. Feel like if they going to lose this worlds it's because when their bot lane isn't firing on all cylinders they can't rely on jungle pressure to help them since top lane is going to be a tiltfest.
I don't think it's all that surprising. Last year, it looked like they'd lost the magic and Rox was consistently challenging them. The difference though is that SKT still looked absolutely dominant and that the losses to Rox were fixable. This split, it looks more like fatal flaws and that they've never really managed to fix the issues; rather they're just the best team at capitalizing on opponent's mistakes.
|
That might also be because LZ is basically better than Rox, the org is more professional at least. Add in super KT and a solid Samsung team, and it's not a surprise that SKT weren't able to dominate completely.
|
SKT seems to have become a bit shaky simply because their botlane is underperforming. It's either that or they're just burnt out (with the same effect).
|
On September 17 2017 18:44 Scip wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2017 07:38 zer0das wrote:On September 17 2017 03:44 chipmonklord17 wrote:
On Travis' League show one of the cohosts (I think it was Kelsey) argued in favor of the decision by saying something to the effect of "You can get Huni to play like Untara, but you'll never be able to get Untara to play like Huni" and I definitely agree. Its much easier to tone down Huni than teach Untara Huni's aggressive instincts given the few weeks they have.
Taking the junglers was definitely the no brainer part of the decision Bahaha, yeah it's easy to become the "long suffering top laner who plays tanks all the time and gets thrown under the bus for the team" when you're used to playing super aggressive and having a lot of your teams resources. Spoken like someone who has never played top lane, ever. I have hard time believing Huni could even achieve a Balls level of play with that style. Pretty sure SKT is going to get dumpstered this worlds by someone, and it is going to be because Huni is incapable of adapting. bookmarking this for when SKT win worlds
Ban me for a year if they win. I don't even need a counter ban bet, I'm that confident they're not winning.
|
On September 17 2017 22:08 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2017 21:04 Gahlo wrote:On September 17 2017 18:08 DarkCore wrote:Pretty sure SKT is going to get dumpstered this worlds by someone, and it is going to be because Huni is incapable of adapting. Lol, that's quite a prediction. Especially because the only teams I can imagine dumpstering SKT are LZ and the CN teams when they play their absolute best. And I don't think SKT has ever lost a game badly in World's playoffs, even a tilting Huni isn't going to change that. Whether or not they win Worlds will come down to if the jungle position can bail out the top half of the map. You guys make it sound like Huni is hyper aggressive, borderline trolling and doesn't carry games. There are not a lot of players who can win lane naturally against Huni, and it is the junglers job to take care of the lanes. Some teams focus more on other lanes at the cost of other lanes (like FLY), but Faker also tends to naturally win his lane, and bot usually at least breaks even. So Peanut/Blank taking care of top lane is not a bad thing. All of SKT's problems this split have come when their bot lane is having trouble, and Bang/Wolf have been shaky this split, and the top isn't able to keep itself afloat by the jungle pressure being pulled to the other side of the map. Huni is more volatile than Untara. To be fair, I think it's a bit more appropriate to say that SKT has had issues when their Bot lane is unable to carry the rest of the teams mistakes. Sure, Wolf and Bang had issues this split; but that's nothing new. Generally at least once per split Bang and Wolf start to look like they've lost their magic. The difference is that for the most part usually their top/jungle/Faker haven't thrown as well. This split we saw the perfect for of that in 7.14 I think it was when SKT went 0-8 for the patch.
Yes, but at the same time they've had a solid top lane in Marin or Duke to hold down the other side of the map. Neither Huni or Untara are of that caliber. The worst feeling in the game as a jungler is when you're getting run around the map because both side lanes are struggling, because then you're often putting yourself even further behind the game since there's no time to take care of your own camps and the other jungler is free to track you/steal your camps when you show up somewhere.
|
I think any problems that Bang/Wolf might have been having this split won't matter until the semifinals at minimum anyway, barring major upsets. Assuming LZ/SSG get 1st in their groups and so does SKT, the hardest bot lane they could possibly face are Zven/Mithy. And while they're probably one of the best bot lanes at this tournament, G2 as a whole would still have Expect vs Huni to balance it out.
I don't think its until you get the potential for Pray/Gorilla that anyone has to be worried about SKT's bot lane
|
SKT also needs to make sure when they play non-KR teams they stay on top of counter-ganking the mid lane aka ganking for Faker, in MSI especially, Faker ALWAYS GETS CAMPED. why?
Because hur durr beating and trashing Faker hurr durr = makes me feel like a god hurr durr
then there's also the no-longer existing seemingly invincible aura of botlane from earlier this year or last year
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
