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United Kingdom50293 Posts
On April 18 2015 04:10 AsnSensation wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2015 03:52 wei2coolman wrote:On April 18 2015 03:50 Fusilero wrote:Looks boys let's just face the truth, we starcraft now. LoL daed gaem incoming, everyone to CS:GO until Korea takes over there. On April 18 2015 03:49 Buonomo wrote:On April 18 2015 03:44 KissBlade wrote:
So I couldn't find EDG's logo on favorite team so time for me to return to the legacy of Boxer now that that's happened. WTF, OMG looks so much worse since they got Uzi than before ...
I should've realized something was up when OMG gets knocked out by a LSPL team. On April 18 2015 03:45 Ansibled wrote:
OMG is better with San than Uzi. Not enough open side lanes. Riot just needs to add 6 more side lanes and OMG needs to get Forg1ven to play jungle and Double to play support and they can win worlds no problem. If forgiven and uzi were on the same team I'm pretty sure the moment one takes CS from another there will be a punch up I mean, ge dropping series to we.... That's more suspicious than the whole pinnacle bet refund.... what pinnacle refund? I think I missed that.
Pinnacle has refunded three matches recently in SC2 on the grounds of sudden shifts in the betting line. Dark vs San and Marineking vs Byul in proleague had inexplicable shifts as well as creator vs soulkey in code A
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/483048-pinnacle-voids-soulkey-vs-creator-bets
For the example of the strange lines the other games in the yoeFW vs MVP match were around 1.314 for herO and 3.600 for center. MKP vs Byul? 1.091 for byul and 8.090 for MKP.
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It's ironic that China was the last "great Western hope" against Korean domination.  lol
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On April 18 2015 03:56 Buonomo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2015 03:49 Azarkon wrote:On April 18 2015 03:32 Buonomo wrote:On April 18 2015 03:25 Azarkon wrote:On April 17 2015 23:11 TheYango wrote:On April 17 2015 21:07 Azarkon wrote:
I just want to observe that all semifinalists in LPL have 2/5 Koreans. That's not really much of an observation when literally only one team (OMG) without 2/5 Koreans was ever in contention for being semifinalists. Eh, King was hyped up higher than Snake going into the split. Hindsight is 20/20 especially when you consider how the communication issues were said to be a huge variable for how well these teams are going to perform. Besides, just the fact that practically every successful LPL and LSPL team imported 2/5 Koreans says a lot in and of itself. China shouldn't really need Korean players. Smaller regions like California and South East Asia would be the ones where Korean imports make sense. What the Chinese need are Korean coaches. Look at NoFe. He essentially takes a team of 3 nobodies, a washed up ADC and Gorilla and turns them into one of the best teams in Korea. If China had people like that they could easily be the strongest region. Instead they have OMG. Eh, in theory they also don't need to import Korean coaches, because how difficult is it to find competent management when your sponsors are willing to pay millions? Not to mention, how effective are Korean coaches for teams of five Chinese players, when they don't even speak the language and has to go through a translator? In theory, China ought to not import at all. But theory, in this case, fails to account for practical results. It became obvious around the time of S3 that the Chinese scene was not holding up vs. the Korean scene and then with SHRC's success in S4 and the perfect storm of LCK moving to eliminate sister teams, it's understandable why they chose to do so. In fact, the same argument exists in other regions. In theory Europe doesn't need to import at all, yet Fnatic w/2 Koreans is in the finals and all EU teams failed to make it out of groups at Worlds. Fnatic and SK are the only teams in Europe with a halfway competent support structure. Thats why they keep making the finals, not because of the caliber of their players. You couldn't just throw Huni and Reignover on, like, CW and expect them to succeed. Europe shouldn't have to pull from other regions, but then Europe shouldn't have to field 11 LCS level teams, and they had Origen in the Challenger series this split, not to mention players like Dexter, Tabbzz and Zoro just sitting around doing nothing. Fnatic could have easily fielded an all EU roster this split and done pretty well IMO. It comes back to support staff. You need Korean level infrastructure to compete with Korea and no one has that.
Eh, Huni is pretty critical to Fnatic's success. I don't think there's been another EU top-laner that's had that amount of impact in terms of receiving bans and needing to be shut down. Are there theoretically EU players that are capable of replacing him? Sure, but EU has traditionally had this problem where their all-stars teams crash and burn. Just look at Elements.
It's fine to sit here and argue about how important infrastructure is but at the end of the day, you have to give credit to guys eg Huni who were basically benchwarmers in Korea going to EU and making the finals their first split and carrying the team. It's a fact that these guys are mechanically sound and make clutch decisions, which isn't the case for all but the best local players.
Analysts have yet to explain how exactly Korea is able to produce such a high quantity of top-tier talent while other regions struggle to build all-stars teams to compete. I'm not saying Koreans = auto-win because we all saw how NJWS got dumpstered at Worlds and how GET got upset at IEM, but organizations feel pressured to import them not just because of the hype, but because they manage to out-perform locals time and time again.
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On April 18 2015 04:16 Azarkon wrote:
Analysts have yet to explain how exactly Korea is able to produce such a high quantity of top-tier talent while other regions struggle to build all-stars teams to compete. I'm not saying Koreans = auto-win because we all saw how NJWS got dumpstered at Worlds and how GET got upset at IEM, but organizations feel pressured to import them not just because of the hype, but because they manage to out-perform locals time and time again.
Well in-house subs are probably the main reason. In NA a sub is someone like Oddone or Gosu who's there to bring in stream revenue. In KR the subs scrim with the main team and live in a gaming house on a strict training regimen. If you're a talented enough solo queue player to be noticed enough by a KeSPA team then you're going to be playing against some of the best players in the world, in an organized setting, on a day-to-day basis. If you're a talented solo queue player in NA or EU you're going to form a team with no support staff with some other talented solo queue dudes, and play against Josh. I mean, nothing against Josh, he's a good jungler and all, but playing against him isn't quite like playing in a KeSPA org's house with a top Korean team.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
leaving the korean vs chinese thing aside, communication vs skill isn't the proper comparison you'd draw from observing omg vs some of these mixed teams.
communication AND strategy improved after pawn got in, same goes for vg's late season improvement. there's a very substantial amount of skill in the ability to communicate effective strategy to the team, and chinese teams always lacked this aspect of skill except in the few exceptional cases. it's way too simple to portray the failure of certain teams as 'not enough skill' when their gameplay shows a lack of effective communication as well.
i'd put skt t1 in this basket for most of the season. you can't find another team with more individual skill than this bunch but their ingame communication and strategic execution in terms of when to fight etc was really off earlier in the year.
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On April 18 2015 03:52 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2015 03:50 Fusilero wrote:Looks boys let's just face the truth, we starcraft now. LoL daed gaem incoming, everyone to CS:GO until Korea takes over there. On April 18 2015 03:49 Buonomo wrote:On April 18 2015 03:44 KissBlade wrote:
So I couldn't find EDG's logo on favorite team so time for me to return to the legacy of Boxer now that that's happened. WTF, OMG looks so much worse since they got Uzi than before ...
I should've realized something was up when OMG gets knocked out by a LSPL team. On April 18 2015 03:45 Ansibled wrote:
OMG is better with San than Uzi. Not enough open side lanes. Riot just needs to add 6 more side lanes and OMG needs to get Forg1ven to play jungle and Double to play support and they can win worlds no problem. If forgiven and uzi were on the same team I'm pretty sure the moment one takes CS from another there will be a punch up I mean, ge dropping series to we.... That's more suspicious than the whole pinnacle bet refund....
I mean look at how many wards are missed and walked past on the minimap, obvious match fixing.
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Infrastructure (coaching, analysts, all that stuff) comes into play for harnessing and refining what talents you have to work with.
Environment produces said talents. Tougher competition produces stronger players (kind of a positive feedback loop, isn't it). But not only that, different focuses will produce different strengths, for example "You cannot walk off the island" when it comes to free-swinging Dominican sluggers in baseball.
And for NA at least, I think that there's something to the notion that the famed troll-y nature of challenger is less than conducive for training individual skills.
And if we want to go further back to raw, individual talent... we're approaching more societal questions. That is, the questions start to become the likes of 'what are the odds of a person who is gifted in the skills demanded for this game, actually become interested and play said game'.
For example, let's look at the USA and football/soccer. Ever hear the excuse/rationale "Our best athletes play other sports; if our other sports stars played soccer, we'd dominate"? That sort of question of people with potential opting to do other things.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
korean pro players have higher game knowledge, know what to do in every situation etc.
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Seems like our boy Pawn is starting tomorrow. Yay!
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Plz everyone knows the real answer is that korean chicks dig elo, therefore being good at lol becomes a competition of sexual selection in korea. Similarly being good at athletic sports in america get chicks thus this phenomenon gives rise to one of the strongest nations in the olympics.
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I just realized EPs jungler is named Drizzle. And he plays a lot of lee sin. Who does that remind me of..
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On April 18 2015 05:41 AsnSensation wrote:
Seems like our boy Pawn is starting tomorrow. Yay!
Are they really gunna start pawn? plus what was the medical condition that was bothering him?
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It's pretty certain they are going to start Pawn. Apparently he's on the best treatment so should be okay for him to play, and U was streaming (not scrimming) past few days and said pretty much Pawn was starting so... I was sort of expecting it anyway since Sanshao (EDG manager) doesn't exactly have the best reputation on "accurate" news. He may embellish a bit on certain statements *coughcough*. Pawn is definitely still recovering though.
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Baa?21243 Posts
Time for some Draaaaaaven.
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Baa?21243 Posts
raphael reminds me a lot of sukim actually...near impeccable laning, non-existent roaming/teamfighting.
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On April 18 2015 14:13 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
raphael reminds me a lot of sukim actually...near impeccable laning, non-existent roaming/teamfighting.
I actually thought Suk1m was pretty decent. I think Raphael is utter garbage though. Also doesn't he only play like one champion or something?
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Baa?21243 Posts
Sukim was awful lol, he looks good when they're winning but whenever the game requires anything beyond staying in lane NR20 WE just fell apart cause their mid was always mia.
Raphael's really solid, I can't think of a single game where he fucks up in lane. And he actually roams sometimes. EP's teamfighting and late game decision making is just non existent though, and his teamfighting is pretty meh.
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Does M3 have anything riding on this? cuz it certainly feels like they don't.
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On April 18 2015 14:25 wei2coolman wrote:
Does M3 have anything riding on this? cuz it certainly feels like they don't.
Considering if they lose, they don't make it to the LPL, I would say they do ...
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M3 looks pretty bad at team-fighting.
Also, I've been pumping Dravens tires since last season. Such an underrated ADC in the west.
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EPT
