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Unfounded matchfixing accusations are not welcome. Refrain from making off-the-wall accusations without concrete evidence. |
United States23745 Posts
On September 20 2014 02:07 xes wrote:
I think this format is fine. The best sports always have group stages with boring matches no one cares about because you're trying to seed the best teams into the real rounds.
Like, did anyone seriously watch every single game of the world cup?
Just don't tune in for matches that don't matter.
Let's at least be thankful they got rid of the god awful automatic byes.
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Trying to make it a uniformly global sport seems futile. I can't think of any sport where all countries are uniformly distributed for skill. Plenty of American (US) viewers showed up for the World Cup even though USA had very slim chances and eventually got shrecked anyways.
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Shit, i hope wickd doesnt play rumble, also balls/acorn good rumble players there.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On September 20 2014 02:32 skykh wrote:
Shit, i hope wickd doesnt play rumble, also balls/acorn good rumble players there.
Dare you to compare anyone to Acorn when we're speaking about Rumble.
If Wickd plays Rumble, Fusilero is right - we can just safely bet on C9.
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United States47024 Posts
On September 20 2014 02:11 Zergneedsfood wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2014 01:56 Figgy wrote:
Do we really want League to turn into SC2 where foreigners basically don't exist and all the regions are infested with Koreans? BW fans had no problem with this, but I guess it's different when you have a larger audience that likes cheering for teams of their home turf. Show nested quote +On September 20 2014 01:56 Figgy wrote:Of course favourites exist. Favourites will always exist in any competition at a World Stage. You can always go watch the Korean scene anytime you want. However destroying all competition outside of Korea certainly doesn't help League as a whole. I think what hurts League competition the most is Riot's phenomenally amazing job of marketing the competition globally as if it isn't Korea>>>>China>>>>>>>>>>everyone else.
TBH I actually think isolating Korea from the rest of the world has only served to accelerate the process of outstripping the rest of the world.
Exchange of information should act to close disparities in skill because the weaker team always has more to learn than the stronger ones. That SC2 ended up the way it did was just a testament to how far ahead Korea was in spite of this. The gap wasn't that large in League before but only became larger due to Riot isolating regions from one another and thus causing the strong to get stronger and the weak to get weaker.
On September 20 2014 01:45 Takkara wrote:
but there's a glimmer of hope that given enough time, the rest of the world can narrow the gap and eventually upset KR.
It won't happen so long as regions remain as isolated as they are.
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On September 20 2014 03:14 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2014 02:11 Zergneedsfood wrote:On September 20 2014 01:56 Figgy wrote:
Do we really want League to turn into SC2 where foreigners basically don't exist and all the regions are infested with Koreans? BW fans had no problem with this, but I guess it's different when you have a larger audience that likes cheering for teams of their home turf. On September 20 2014 01:56 Figgy wrote:Of course favourites exist. Favourites will always exist in any competition at a World Stage. You can always go watch the Korean scene anytime you want. However destroying all competition outside of Korea certainly doesn't help League as a whole. I think what hurts League competition the most is Riot's phenomenally amazing job of marketing the competition globally as if it isn't Korea>>>>China>>>>>>>>>>everyone else. TBH I actually think isolating Korea from the rest of the world has only served to accelerate the process of outstripping the rest of the world. Exchange of information should act to close disparities in skill because the weaker team always has more to learn than the stronger ones. That SC2 ended up the way it did was just a testament to how far ahead Korea was in spite of this. The gap wasn't that large in League before but only became larger due to Riot isolating regions from one another and thus causing the strong to get stronger and the weak to get weaker.
Agreed. Region locking blows. ;__;
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expected results, shitty games
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The only slight upset I would have liked to see was TPA beating TSM for 2nd in the group but meh
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On September 20 2014 03:14 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2014 02:11 Zergneedsfood wrote:On September 20 2014 01:56 Figgy wrote:
Do we really want League to turn into SC2 where foreigners basically don't exist and all the regions are infested with Koreans? BW fans had no problem with this, but I guess it's different when you have a larger audience that likes cheering for teams of their home turf. On September 20 2014 01:56 Figgy wrote:Of course favourites exist. Favourites will always exist in any competition at a World Stage. You can always go watch the Korean scene anytime you want. However destroying all competition outside of Korea certainly doesn't help League as a whole. I think what hurts League competition the most is Riot's phenomenally amazing job of marketing the competition globally as if it isn't Korea>>>>China>>>>>>>>>>everyone else. TBH I actually think isolating Korea from the rest of the world has only served to accelerate the process of outstripping the rest of the world. Exchange of information should act to close disparities in skill because the weaker team always has more to learn than the stronger ones. That SC2 ended up the way it did was just a testament to how far ahead Korea was in spite of this. The gap wasn't that large in League before but only became larger due to Riot isolating regions from one another and thus causing the strong to get stronger and the weak to get weaker. Show nested quote +On September 20 2014 01:45 Takkara wrote:
but there's a glimmer of hope that given enough time, the rest of the world can narrow the gap and eventually upset KR. It won't happen so long as regions remain as isolated as they are.
The thing is, Korea isolated itself. It doesn't need the rest of the world, and they would only leave Korea (if allowed) to come and stomp foreign teams at foreign competitions. NA/EU teams will not close the gap by playing against Koreans at 5 weekend tournaments a year. The only way to force the cross-pollination necessary to close the gap is to form a global league that each region plays in, so that Korean teams HAVE to scrim with Western teams. Otherwise, the only way to break the isolation is to send NA/EU teams to Korea to try and play in their leagues and get good scrims.
That's not happening, and honestly I don't care. I enjoy the level of competition in NA LCS (I watch EU LCS here and there). If Korean teams want to come and live in NA and play in NA LCS for the easy wins and spot at Worlds? I will welcome them with open arms, because it will raise the level of play. If Korean pros who cannot make it in Korea anymore want to come to NA and play for NA teams? I will welcome them with open arms, because it will raise the level of play. If NA can never win Worlds and Korea is always a step ahead of them? I don't care. I honestly don't. I don't need to see global parity between the leagues. It is irrelevant to me, and I don't think it really matters in the end. I'd rather see Riot stop hosting Worlds and move the tournament money to each respective region's playoffs than I would see them torch the LCS system to try and create global talent parity.
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My point is simply that one can't complain about slots for wildcard BR/Turkey teams if you're also ok with NA/EU/SEA teams also showing up to the world finals as they have about the same amount of relevance against top Korean teams.
Region locking definitely works for Riot and is great for promoting their game globally
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On September 20 2014 03:14 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2014 02:11 Zergneedsfood wrote:On September 20 2014 01:56 Figgy wrote:
Do we really want League to turn into SC2 where foreigners basically don't exist and all the regions are infested with Koreans? BW fans had no problem with this, but I guess it's different when you have a larger audience that likes cheering for teams of their home turf. On September 20 2014 01:56 Figgy wrote:Of course favourites exist. Favourites will always exist in any competition at a World Stage. You can always go watch the Korean scene anytime you want. However destroying all competition outside of Korea certainly doesn't help League as a whole. I think what hurts League competition the most is Riot's phenomenally amazing job of marketing the competition globally as if it isn't Korea>>>>China>>>>>>>>>>everyone else. TBH I actually think isolating Korea from the rest of the world has only served to accelerate the process of outstripping the rest of the world. Exchange of information should act to close disparities in skill because the weaker team always has more to learn than the stronger ones. That SC2 ended up the way it did was just a testament to how far ahead Korea was in spite of this. The gap wasn't that large in League before but only became larger due to Riot isolating regions from one another and thus causing the strong to get stronger and the weak to get weaker. Show nested quote +On September 20 2014 01:45 Takkara wrote:
but there's a glimmer of hope that given enough time, the rest of the world can narrow the gap and eventually upset KR. It won't happen so long as regions remain as isolated as they are.
I agree with that, but in alternative world without LCS and with s2 format, when we had every month international tournament west would have been even more behind.
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I think it'll get there eventually.
Case in point, look at hockey. Canada was worlds ahead, Russia overthrew them and isolated themselves. Canada and the US caught up, isolated themselves. The Scandinavian countries caught up hard, and now there are legitimately 6 or 7 real contenders at any world tournament.
I think we just need to stop trying to be Korea; copy the partake but not the culture. We'd do well with gaming offices in lieu of gaming houses, I think it'd make teams closer, make then less at each other's throats, stress then to have controlled practice without it totally taking over their lives.
We aren't Koreans, us mass gaming doesn't work. We strive off of targeted practice and staying fresh. Has put us ahead in every other sport in the world when compared to China / korea.
We'll catch them and beat them by copying their theory and style, but we can't copy their cultural lifestyle because we aren't made that way, we don't have the capability to live that way.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
I believe that liquid112 (or maybe their sports psychologist) mentioned team houses vs team office. In an ideal scenario he would move curse players into their own apartments and set up a gaming office for them to work in so that he can separate work from relaxation to promote a better atmosphere.
Can't help but wonder if CLG could have really used that before link/dexter/seraph fell apart.
http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2faoml/ama_steve_liquid112_arhancet_owner_and_gm_for/ck7hzp7
Here's a link to liquid's comment regarding this
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On September 20 2014 03:37 orzeu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2014 03:14 TheYango wrote:On September 20 2014 02:11 Zergneedsfood wrote:On September 20 2014 01:56 Figgy wrote:
Do we really want League to turn into SC2 where foreigners basically don't exist and all the regions are infested with Koreans? BW fans had no problem with this, but I guess it's different when you have a larger audience that likes cheering for teams of their home turf. On September 20 2014 01:56 Figgy wrote:Of course favourites exist. Favourites will always exist in any competition at a World Stage. You can always go watch the Korean scene anytime you want. However destroying all competition outside of Korea certainly doesn't help League as a whole. I think what hurts League competition the most is Riot's phenomenally amazing job of marketing the competition globally as if it isn't Korea>>>>China>>>>>>>>>>everyone else. TBH I actually think isolating Korea from the rest of the world has only served to accelerate the process of outstripping the rest of the world. Exchange of information should act to close disparities in skill because the weaker team always has more to learn than the stronger ones. That SC2 ended up the way it did was just a testament to how far ahead Korea was in spite of this. The gap wasn't that large in League before but only became larger due to Riot isolating regions from one another and thus causing the strong to get stronger and the weak to get weaker. On September 20 2014 01:45 Takkara wrote:
but there's a glimmer of hope that given enough time, the rest of the world can narrow the gap and eventually upset KR. It won't happen so long as regions remain as isolated as they are. I agree with that, but in alternative world without LCS and with s2 format, when we had every month international tournament west would have been even more behind.
The key is that the west doesn't SEEM as behind without some sort of international-get together every month. Region locking doesn't actually promote skill-parity, only its illusion. Top tier Korean teams hasn't lost to a single foreigner team since S3 finals and hasn't lost to a single non chinese foreigner team since I don't even remember when.
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The west will never beat Korea at being Korean. That's just silly to even try, imo. We need to beat them being western. I think teams shouldn't even worry about housing their player's, make then get their own accommodations and raise their salaries accordingly.
We can catch up, the infrastructure is here now. I think it is very possible.
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United States47024 Posts
On September 20 2014 03:40 iCanada wrote:
We aren't Koreans, us mass gaming doesn't work. We strive off of targeted practice and staying fresh. Has put us ahead in every other sport in the world when compared to China / korea.
I think this misrepresents the situation by a LOT.
The West's lead over other parts of the world in sports can be attributed mostly to factors that have no relation to the teams' practice habits. In fact, the West's lead over Korea/China/Japan has grown smaller, not larger in recent years. It's not practice habits that's "working" for the West. It's just a large lead that's existed since the 40s and 50s (and probably earlier, to be honest) thanks to better popular support and quality of life, and the gap is only growing smaller as these factors reach parity. This serves to support the success of Chinese/Korean training methodologies, rather than discrediting it.
Saying "being Western" got the West where it is in sports isn't quite right. It's being richer and having a more ingrained history/culture in the sports in question. There's absolutely zero correlation you can draw to teams' practice methods and their relative success against non-Western teams.
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The lead of the west largely came from the publicizing and politicizing of sports during the cold war which led to the US and USSR putting in massive amount of effort to ensure those leads
Modern Asian nations like China abd Korean have begun to put high levels of emphasis and state capital in to this, which is the main reason as to why the gap is narrowing
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All trying to be eastern does to western player's is burn them out and kill their motivation.
Look at sc2, there were foreigners who were just as good if not better than many of the Koreans, but they then moved to Korea and saw no improvement, burned out, and quit playing the game.
Guys like IdrA, jinro, tlo... We just aren't made to boot camp and practice fourteen hours a day. Just burns us out, we can't handle that style of work, that style of living. It's not healthy, western society strives for space, freshness.
Jinro was a better sc2 player before he was forced to practice kespa style. There is literally no examples of a western player that integrated with Korean pros and was successful for it. Literally none.
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On September 20 2014 04:26 iCanada wrote:
All trying to be eastern does to western player's is burn them out and kill their motivation.
Look at sc2, there were foreigners who were just as good if not better than many of the Koreans, but they then moved to Korea and saw no improvement, burned out, and quit playing the game.
Guys like IdrA, jinro, tlo... We just aren't made to boot camp and practice fourteen hours a day. Just burns us out, we can't handle that style of work, that style of living. It's not healthy, western society strives for space, freshness.
Jinro was a better sc2 player before he was forced to practice kespa style. There is literally no examples of a western player that integrated with Korean pros and was successful for it. Literally none.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Grrrr...
personally I just find it to be simple genetics, asian countries cant hang with us in physically demanding sports because most arent capable of it even if they trained their whole life.
They also seem to naturally have more agile hand movements and have quicker reflexes/understanding of situations which makes them dominant in video games
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On September 20 2014 04:29 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2014 04:26 iCanada wrote:
All trying to be eastern does to western player's is burn them out and kill their motivation.
Look at sc2, there were foreigners who were just as good if not better than many of the Koreans, but they then moved to Korea and saw no improvement, burned out, and quit playing the game.
Guys like IdrA, jinro, tlo... We just aren't made to boot camp and practice fourteen hours a day. Just burns us out, we can't handle that style of work, that style of living. It's not healthy, western society strives for space, freshness.
Jinro was a better sc2 player before he was forced to practice kespa style. There is literally no examples of a western player that integrated with Korean pros and was successful for it. Literally none. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Grrrr...
Grrr was better than all the Koreans before he went to Korea, and then he quickly fell from grace.
Grrr was literally from pre-kespa. Grrr was part of the wave that made bw relavent, not really the same thing.
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EPT
