It is not clear whether Korea will come to dominate the Dota scene at all. I depends on how lively their amateur scene is. Many players in the current Korean Dota pro teams aren't even that good individually which is quite different from Sc2 or LoL.
I don't usually mind one scene dominating the way it is in LoL but the difference in strength is a bit depressing.
On May 11 2014 01:44 Itsmedudeman wrote: Teams staying in NA is better for the scene. Most important thing should be keeping interest and if the best teams like CLG and TSM went over to Korea to play at unwatchable hours only to get completely stomped there would be a big loss of interest. Yeah international tournaments are great, but you are dead fucking wrong if you think the scene would be better if LCS were gone and it were like the old days. It promotes amateur teams whereas a pure international scene would be like a majority of korean teams with only a few elite NA/EU teams and everyone else suffers.
No shit it's better for the scene that's not the argument that's being made here.
Also, fans of BW would know, but nobody relevant gave a fuck that BW was dominated by Koreans. That's because people could put aside their national pride (thank fucking god) and enjoy the mastery that were the Starcraft Broodwar progamers.
Oh yes, because watching events at 4 am should be what people have to do to keep up with a scene.
There's different ways to watch... you can always subscribe and get the vods or just watch the rebroadcasts.
Which is nothing like watching a live event. When people miss sporting events they usually just look at the results later on. There's absolutely no suspense when you know that it's already happened.
You're talking about keeping up with a scene, there's ways to keep up with it if the viewing times are not working for you, whether it be watching the rebroadcasts or simply just learning the results. If you want to feel the excitement of watching it live then watch it live, even if it's at times that are stupid. People here have been doing that for years already, yes it sucks but it's worth it if you really want to have that experience. If a team were to go to Korea I'm sure foreigners would find ways to watch their games (live or rebroadcasts), the same thing happened when foreigners went to Korea in BW or when TL went to Korea to partner with oGs, people found ways and made sacrifices to watch and support their teams and players.
Completely agree with this statement. Thank god people like this are still around.
People used to watch Starleagues at 240 fucking p at the strangest of hours.
Now if something is too early at 7AM people complain. It's just ridiculous how entitled fans are about literally free content and resort to statements like "oh but it's not like I get to watch it live like a real sporting event" like it's an adequate justification for complaining about something they are already receiving for free.
You're forgetting that not all fans are fucking diehard League fans. You wanna know why anything is successful? It's not because of you or others who commit to watching every single fucking event no matter what. It's the casual viewer base that let's us see numbers get up to 200k+ every day in LCS compared to maybe like 20k-40k for OGN. The elitist attitude is honestly so stupid I don't understand how you can think that's what people should have to do. The scene should cater to the fans, not the other way around.
Pretty sure you're still missing the point, and this strawman thinking that I'm telling people we should all move to Korea is fucking dumb. You need to like....learn to read before you just call someone who uses BW analogies an elitist.
Nobody is saying you should have to wake up at 4AM to watch a league that you're invested in. How is that even the case right now? You don't have to wake up to watch good leagues like the Chinese and the Korean scene. And that's fine. Perhaps it makes you less knowledgeable when International tournaments come around, but overall the appeal of NA and EU still exists.
I don't think anybody is making any of the suggestions that you are arguing against. The only thing we are saying is that if teams want to move out of NA and go to a place and get better, there is zero reason why they shouldn't be allowed. Yes, it may be a bad idea from a business perspective, but I don't care about fans, because they're dumb and don't know what's good for them half the time, I care about the team.
I care about teams like C9 or CLG getting better. As a result, I don't care if fans get pissed off because we all know 98% of them have asinine and misinformed opinions.
Just look at all the people who legitimately thought OMG weren't sandbagging in the C9 game in the group stage. Or Fnatic fans who think that their team is still good. Or people back in Season 3 worlds wondering why Frost/Blaze weren't at Worlds when they, at the time, had become really bad teams and were experiencing slumps, or why people don't know why SEA sucks. It's because a wide pool of fans don't understand anything, and so why should I care about the opinions of fans when it comes to decisions of whether or not teams want to get better.
On May 11 2014 02:12 Zergneedsfood wrote: That's...again...not the point? I don't think I've ever contested that it's wrong for Riot to make that decision. I just think it's a fucking dumb one in the long term.
Just gonna say: NA will never be a respectable region until they get more exposure and start learning more from the top teams. People have been hoping when NA will be a respectable region and the only hope has been Cloud 9, a team that emulated Korean strategies who couldn't even get past the Quarterfinals at Worlds and just got stomped by OMG.
The rest of the world is by and large outpacing EU/NA, and without more international exposure to learn, or even just a better solo queue environment to improve mechanically, I don't see any reason to suspect that Cloud 9 will destroy Summer Split and then get destroyed by an Asian team (they'll probably beat whatever EU team comes out though).
See, this is where you are 100% wrong. C9 going over for a few months in Korea WILL NOT CHANGE ANYTHING. Why would a team that devotes maybe 2 months of good practice be better than teams that have good practice ALL fucking year long? Not to mention patches change the meta so frequently to the point where the stuff you learn over 2 months can become completely irrelevant the next day. Unless, for some reason you are somehow suggesting that C9 just live in Korea for the rest of their league careers and everyone else should just wake up to watch them at 4 am in the morning to play in OGN.
Name one player in SC/SC2 who got good success after doing 2 months worth of training in Korea that lasted longer than 1 event. Please.
So basically you're saying that no matter what NA teams do, they'll get fucked? Nice optimism bro.
Also I never watched SC2 so I can't speak for that, but Ret/Nony/Idra were the best Foreign BW progamers. This was back when infrastructure for BW was relatively shit too, so the fact that they were probably considered the best is testament to what Korea did to them. If you watched any of the games, they were by far the most polished of players (especially Idra) mechanically and strategically. Yes, they could never match up against any serious competition, but that's because the skill divide was far too great by then.
League is a much different animal and is much easier, I think, for teams to catch up strategically since the mechanical demands are much less than what BW had.
You don't give a shit about the teams. The only way for NA to improve is for NA itself to have a large and good enough scene to the point where the top teams need to constantly be on the ball to compete with other NA teams.
You don't get this by gutting the entire NA LCS and sending all the top teams to KOREA to get better (how in anyone's right mind would you think this would make the NA scene more skilled overall?). This isn't SC2 and this isn't BW, League is actually massive in NA and EU.
The ONLY reason anyone even went to Korea for Brood War wasn't to get better, it was because the only possible way you could ever making a living playing Brood War was by moving to Korea.
Oh, and every foreign BW player that went to Korea still sucked absolute shit after a year of training compared to top pros.
The good thing about NA LoL teams is that they're run by individuals and not organizations. They make a lot of money for the players and have no incentive to change because they're cashing checks from being popular. That tends to backfire when you put them up against Korean and Chinese teams, who are run by organizations and not individuals. That's probably the biggest difference.
On May 11 2014 01:44 Itsmedudeman wrote: Teams staying in NA is better for the scene. Most important thing should be keeping interest and if the best teams like CLG and TSM went over to Korea to play at unwatchable hours only to get completely stomped there would be a big loss of interest. Yeah international tournaments are great, but you are dead fucking wrong if you think the scene would be better if LCS were gone and it were like the old days. It promotes amateur teams whereas a pure international scene would be like a majority of korean teams with only a few elite NA/EU teams and everyone else suffers.
No shit it's better for the scene that's not the argument that's being made here.
Also, fans of BW would know, but nobody relevant gave a fuck that BW was dominated by Koreans. That's because people could put aside their national pride (thank fucking god) and enjoy the mastery that were the Starcraft Broodwar progamers.
Oh yes, because watching events at 4 am should be what people have to do to keep up with a scene.
There's different ways to watch... you can always subscribe and get the vods or just watch the rebroadcasts.
Which is nothing like watching a live event. When people miss sporting events they usually just look at the results later on. There's absolutely no suspense when you know that it's already happened.
You're talking about keeping up with a scene, there's ways to keep up with it if the viewing times are not working for you, whether it be watching the rebroadcasts or simply just learning the results. If you want to feel the excitement of watching it live then watch it live, even if it's at times that are stupid. People here have been doing that for years already, yes it sucks but it's worth it if you really want to have that experience. If a team were to go to Korea I'm sure foreigners would find ways to watch their games (live or rebroadcasts), the same thing happened when foreigners went to Korea in BW or when TL went to Korea to partner with oGs, people found ways and made sacrifices to watch and support their teams and players.
Completely agree with this statement. Thank god people like this are still around.
People used to watch Starleagues at 240 fucking p at the strangest of hours.
Now if something is too early at 7AM people complain. It's just ridiculous how entitled fans are about literally free content and resort to statements like "oh but it's not like I get to watch it live like a real sporting event" like it's an adequate justification for complaining about something they are already receiving for free.
You're forgetting that not all fans are fucking diehard League fans. You wanna know why anything is successful? It's not because of you or others who commit to watching every single fucking event no matter what. It's the casual viewer base that let's us see numbers get up to 200k+ every day in LCS compared to maybe like 20k-40k for OGN. The elitist attitude is honestly so stupid I don't understand how you can think that's what people should have to do. The scene should cater to the fans, not the other way around.
Pretty sure you're still missing the point, and this strawman thinking that I'm telling people we should all move to Korea is fucking dumb. You need to like....learn to read before you just call someone who uses BW analogies an elitist.
Nobody is saying you should have to wake up at 4AM to watch a league that you're invested in. How is that even the case right now? You don't have to wake up to watch good leagues like the Chinese and the Korean scene. And that's fine. Perhaps it makes you less knowledgeable when International tournaments come around, but overall the appeal of NA and EU still exists.
I don't think anybody is making any of the suggestions that you are arguing against. The only thing we are saying is that if teams want to move out of NA and go to a place and get better, there is zero reason why they shouldn't be allowed. Yes, it may be a bad idea from a business perspective, but I don't care about fans, because they're dumb and don't know what's good for them half the time, I care about the team.
I care about teams like C9 or CLG getting better. As a result, I don't care if fans get pissed off because we all know 98% of them have asinine and misinformed opinions.
Just look at all the people who legitimately thought OMG weren't sandbagging in the C9 game in the group stage. Or Fnatic fans who think that their team is still good. Or people back in Season 3 worlds wondering why Frost/Blaze weren't at Worlds when they, at the time, had become really bad teams and were experiencing slumps, or why people don't know why SEA sucks. It's because a wide pool of fans don't understand anything, and so why should I care about the opinions of fans when it comes to decisions of whether or not teams want to get better.
On May 11 2014 02:15 Itsmedudeman wrote:
On May 11 2014 02:12 Zergneedsfood wrote: That's...again...not the point? I don't think I've ever contested that it's wrong for Riot to make that decision. I just think it's a fucking dumb one in the long term.
Just gonna say: NA will never be a respectable region until they get more exposure and start learning more from the top teams. People have been hoping when NA will be a respectable region and the only hope has been Cloud 9, a team that emulated Korean strategies who couldn't even get past the Quarterfinals at Worlds and just got stomped by OMG.
The rest of the world is by and large outpacing EU/NA, and without more international exposure to learn, or even just a better solo queue environment to improve mechanically, I don't see any reason to suspect that Cloud 9 will destroy Summer Split and then get destroyed by an Asian team (they'll probably beat whatever EU team comes out though).
See, this is where you are 100% wrong. C9 going over for a few months in Korea WILL NOT CHANGE ANYTHING. Why would a team that devotes maybe 2 months of good practice be better than teams that have good practice ALL fucking year long? Not to mention patches change the meta so frequently to the point where the stuff you learn over 2 months can become completely irrelevant the next day. Unless, for some reason you are somehow suggesting that C9 just live in Korea for the rest of their league careers and everyone else should just wake up to watch them at 4 am in the morning to play in OGN.
Name one player in SC/SC2 who got good success after doing 2 months worth of training in Korea that lasted longer than 1 event. Please.
So basically you're saying that no matter what NA teams do, they'll get fucked? Nice optimism bro.
Also I never watched SC2 so I can't speak for that, but Ret/Nony/Idra were the best Foreign BW progamers. This was back when infrastructure for BW was relatively shit too, so the fact that they were probably considered the best is testament to what Korea did to them. If you watched any of the games, they were by far the most polished of players (especially Idra) mechanically and strategically. Yes, they could never match up against any serious competition, but that's because the skill divide was far too great by then.
League is a much different animal and is much easier, I think, for teams to catch up strategically since the mechanical demands are much less than what BW had.
You don't give a shit about the teams. The only way for NA to improve is for NA itself to have a large and good enough scene to the point where the top teams need to constantly be on the ball to compete with other NA teams.
You don't get this by gutting the entire NA LCS and sending all the top teams to KOREA to get better (how in anyone's right mind would you think this would make the NA scene more skilled overall?). This isn't SC2 and this isn't BW, League is actually massive in NA and EU.
The ONLY reason anyone even went to Korea for Brood War wasn't to get better, it was because the only possible way you could ever making a living playing Brood War was by moving to Korea.
Oh, and every foreign BW player that went to Korea still sucked absolute shit after a year of training compared to top pros.
A living? You have a funny idea of what a living is. I hope you realize a lot of those guys weren't making jack. A lot of guys going thinking they will get better and it's a huge commitment and takes a lot of time to show any improvement. That year and a bit of training on ladder in Korea certainly helped Greg get over the hump at least when it came to dealing with foreigner scene.
On May 11 2014 01:44 Itsmedudeman wrote: Teams staying in NA is better for the scene. Most important thing should be keeping interest and if the best teams like CLG and TSM went over to Korea to play at unwatchable hours only to get completely stomped there would be a big loss of interest. Yeah international tournaments are great, but you are dead fucking wrong if you think the scene would be better if LCS were gone and it were like the old days. It promotes amateur teams whereas a pure international scene would be like a majority of korean teams with only a few elite NA/EU teams and everyone else suffers.
No shit it's better for the scene that's not the argument that's being made here.
Also, fans of BW would know, but nobody relevant gave a fuck that BW was dominated by Koreans. That's because people could put aside their national pride (thank fucking god) and enjoy the mastery that were the Starcraft Broodwar progamers.
Oh yes, because watching events at 4 am should be what people have to do to keep up with a scene.
There's different ways to watch... you can always subscribe and get the vods or just watch the rebroadcasts.
Which is nothing like watching a live event. When people miss sporting events they usually just look at the results later on. There's absolutely no suspense when you know that it's already happened.
You're talking about keeping up with a scene, there's ways to keep up with it if the viewing times are not working for you, whether it be watching the rebroadcasts or simply just learning the results. If you want to feel the excitement of watching it live then watch it live, even if it's at times that are stupid. People here have been doing that for years already, yes it sucks but it's worth it if you really want to have that experience. If a team were to go to Korea I'm sure foreigners would find ways to watch their games (live or rebroadcasts), the same thing happened when foreigners went to Korea in BW or when TL went to Korea to partner with oGs, people found ways and made sacrifices to watch and support their teams and players.
Completely agree with this statement. Thank god people like this are still around.
People used to watch Starleagues at 240 fucking p at the strangest of hours.
Now if something is too early at 7AM people complain. It's just ridiculous how entitled fans are about literally free content and resort to statements like "oh but it's not like I get to watch it live like a real sporting event" like it's an adequate justification for complaining about something they are already receiving for free.
You're forgetting that not all fans are fucking diehard League fans. You wanna know why anything is successful? It's not because of you or others who commit to watching every single fucking event no matter what. It's the casual viewer base that let's us see numbers get up to 200k+ every day in LCS compared to maybe like 20k-40k for OGN. The elitist attitude is honestly so stupid I don't understand how you can think that's what people should have to do. The scene should cater to the fans, not the other way around.
Pretty sure you're still missing the point, and this strawman thinking that I'm telling people we should all move to Korea is fucking dumb. You need to like....learn to read before you just call someone who uses BW analogies an elitist.
Nobody is saying you should have to wake up at 4AM to watch a league that you're invested in. How is that even the case right now? You don't have to wake up to watch good leagues like the Chinese and the Korean scene. And that's fine. Perhaps it makes you less knowledgeable when International tournaments come around, but overall the appeal of NA and EU still exists.
I don't think anybody is making any of the suggestions that you are arguing against. The only thing we are saying is that if teams want to move out of NA and go to a place and get better, there is zero reason why they shouldn't be allowed. Yes, it may be a bad idea from a business perspective, but I don't care about fans, because they're dumb and don't know what's good for them half the time, I care about the team.
I care about teams like C9 or CLG getting better. As a result, I don't care if fans get pissed off because we all know 98% of them have asinine and misinformed opinions.
Just look at all the people who legitimately thought OMG weren't sandbagging in the C9 game in the group stage. Or Fnatic fans who think that their team is still good. Or people back in Season 3 worlds wondering why Frost/Blaze weren't at Worlds when they, at the time, had become really bad teams and were experiencing slumps, or why people don't know why SEA sucks. It's because a wide pool of fans don't understand anything, and so why should I care about the opinions of fans when it comes to decisions of whether or not teams want to get better.
On May 11 2014 02:15 Itsmedudeman wrote:
On May 11 2014 02:12 Zergneedsfood wrote: That's...again...not the point? I don't think I've ever contested that it's wrong for Riot to make that decision. I just think it's a fucking dumb one in the long term.
Just gonna say: NA will never be a respectable region until they get more exposure and start learning more from the top teams. People have been hoping when NA will be a respectable region and the only hope has been Cloud 9, a team that emulated Korean strategies who couldn't even get past the Quarterfinals at Worlds and just got stomped by OMG.
The rest of the world is by and large outpacing EU/NA, and without more international exposure to learn, or even just a better solo queue environment to improve mechanically, I don't see any reason to suspect that Cloud 9 will destroy Summer Split and then get destroyed by an Asian team (they'll probably beat whatever EU team comes out though).
See, this is where you are 100% wrong. C9 going over for a few months in Korea WILL NOT CHANGE ANYTHING. Why would a team that devotes maybe 2 months of good practice be better than teams that have good practice ALL fucking year long? Not to mention patches change the meta so frequently to the point where the stuff you learn over 2 months can become completely irrelevant the next day. Unless, for some reason you are somehow suggesting that C9 just live in Korea for the rest of their league careers and everyone else should just wake up to watch them at 4 am in the morning to play in OGN.
Name one player in SC/SC2 who got good success after doing 2 months worth of training in Korea that lasted longer than 1 event. Please.
So basically you're saying that no matter what NA teams do, they'll get fucked? Nice optimism bro.
Also I never watched SC2 so I can't speak for that, but Ret/Nony/Idra were the best Foreign BW progamers. This was back when infrastructure for BW was relatively shit too, so the fact that they were probably considered the best is testament to what Korea did to them. If you watched any of the games, they were by far the most polished of players (especially Idra) mechanically and strategically. Yes, they could never match up against any serious competition, but that's because the skill divide was far too great by then.
League is a much different animal and is much easier, I think, for teams to catch up strategically since the mechanical demands are much less than what BW had.
You don't get this by gutting the entire NA LCS and sending all the top teams to KOREA to get better (how in anyone's right mind would you think this would make the NA scene more skilled overall?). This isn't SC2 and this isn't BW, League is actually massive in NA and EU.
The ONLY reason anyone even went to Korea for Brood War wasn't to get better, it was because the only possible way you could ever making a living playing Brood War was by moving to Korea.
Oh, and every foreign BW player that went to Korea still sucked absolute shit after a year of training compared to top pros.
lol
Enter more people who like to strawman. Yay~
Also:
The only way for NA to improve is for NA itself to have a large and good enough scene to the point where the top teams need to constantly be on the ball to compete with other NA teams.
Okay. lol
Once again, more people don't know what they're talking about.
No shit it's better for the scene that's not the argument that's being made here.
Also, fans of BW would know, but nobody relevant gave a fuck that BW was dominated by Koreans. That's because people could put aside their national pride (thank fucking god) and enjoy the mastery that were the Starcraft Broodwar progamers.
Oh yes, because watching events at 4 am should be what people have to do to keep up with a scene.
There's different ways to watch... you can always subscribe and get the vods or just watch the rebroadcasts.
Which is nothing like watching a live event. When people miss sporting events they usually just look at the results later on. There's absolutely no suspense when you know that it's already happened.
You're talking about keeping up with a scene, there's ways to keep up with it if the viewing times are not working for you, whether it be watching the rebroadcasts or simply just learning the results. If you want to feel the excitement of watching it live then watch it live, even if it's at times that are stupid. People here have been doing that for years already, yes it sucks but it's worth it if you really want to have that experience. If a team were to go to Korea I'm sure foreigners would find ways to watch their games (live or rebroadcasts), the same thing happened when foreigners went to Korea in BW or when TL went to Korea to partner with oGs, people found ways and made sacrifices to watch and support their teams and players.
Completely agree with this statement. Thank god people like this are still around.
People used to watch Starleagues at 240 fucking p at the strangest of hours.
Now if something is too early at 7AM people complain. It's just ridiculous how entitled fans are about literally free content and resort to statements like "oh but it's not like I get to watch it live like a real sporting event" like it's an adequate justification for complaining about something they are already receiving for free.
You're forgetting that not all fans are fucking diehard League fans. You wanna know why anything is successful? It's not because of you or others who commit to watching every single fucking event no matter what. It's the casual viewer base that let's us see numbers get up to 200k+ every day in LCS compared to maybe like 20k-40k for OGN. The elitist attitude is honestly so stupid I don't understand how you can think that's what people should have to do. The scene should cater to the fans, not the other way around.
Pretty sure you're still missing the point, and this strawman thinking that I'm telling people we should all move to Korea is fucking dumb. You need to like....learn to read before you just call someone who uses BW analogies an elitist.
Nobody is saying you should have to wake up at 4AM to watch a league that you're invested in. How is that even the case right now? You don't have to wake up to watch good leagues like the Chinese and the Korean scene. And that's fine. Perhaps it makes you less knowledgeable when International tournaments come around, but overall the appeal of NA and EU still exists.
I don't think anybody is making any of the suggestions that you are arguing against. The only thing we are saying is that if teams want to move out of NA and go to a place and get better, there is zero reason why they shouldn't be allowed. Yes, it may be a bad idea from a business perspective, but I don't care about fans, because they're dumb and don't know what's good for them half the time, I care about the team.
I care about teams like C9 or CLG getting better. As a result, I don't care if fans get pissed off because we all know 98% of them have asinine and misinformed opinions.
Just look at all the people who legitimately thought OMG weren't sandbagging in the C9 game in the group stage. Or Fnatic fans who think that their team is still good. Or people back in Season 3 worlds wondering why Frost/Blaze weren't at Worlds when they, at the time, had become really bad teams and were experiencing slumps, or why people don't know why SEA sucks. It's because a wide pool of fans don't understand anything, and so why should I care about the opinions of fans when it comes to decisions of whether or not teams want to get better.
On May 11 2014 02:15 Itsmedudeman wrote:
On May 11 2014 02:12 Zergneedsfood wrote: That's...again...not the point? I don't think I've ever contested that it's wrong for Riot to make that decision. I just think it's a fucking dumb one in the long term.
Just gonna say: NA will never be a respectable region until they get more exposure and start learning more from the top teams. People have been hoping when NA will be a respectable region and the only hope has been Cloud 9, a team that emulated Korean strategies who couldn't even get past the Quarterfinals at Worlds and just got stomped by OMG.
The rest of the world is by and large outpacing EU/NA, and without more international exposure to learn, or even just a better solo queue environment to improve mechanically, I don't see any reason to suspect that Cloud 9 will destroy Summer Split and then get destroyed by an Asian team (they'll probably beat whatever EU team comes out though).
See, this is where you are 100% wrong. C9 going over for a few months in Korea WILL NOT CHANGE ANYTHING. Why would a team that devotes maybe 2 months of good practice be better than teams that have good practice ALL fucking year long? Not to mention patches change the meta so frequently to the point where the stuff you learn over 2 months can become completely irrelevant the next day. Unless, for some reason you are somehow suggesting that C9 just live in Korea for the rest of their league careers and everyone else should just wake up to watch them at 4 am in the morning to play in OGN.
Name one player in SC/SC2 who got good success after doing 2 months worth of training in Korea that lasted longer than 1 event. Please.
So basically you're saying that no matter what NA teams do, they'll get fucked? Nice optimism bro.
Also I never watched SC2 so I can't speak for that, but Ret/Nony/Idra were the best Foreign BW progamers. This was back when infrastructure for BW was relatively shit too, so the fact that they were probably considered the best is testament to what Korea did to them. If you watched any of the games, they were by far the most polished of players (especially Idra) mechanically and strategically. Yes, they could never match up against any serious competition, but that's because the skill divide was far too great by then.
League is a much different animal and is much easier, I think, for teams to catch up strategically since the mechanical demands are much less than what BW had.
You don't get this by gutting the entire NA LCS and sending all the top teams to KOREA to get better (how in anyone's right mind would you think this would make the NA scene more skilled overall?). This isn't SC2 and this isn't BW, League is actually massive in NA and EU.
The ONLY reason anyone even went to Korea for Brood War wasn't to get better, it was because the only possible way you could ever making a living playing Brood War was by moving to Korea.
Oh, and every foreign BW player that went to Korea still sucked absolute shit after a year of training compared to top pros.
The only way for NA to improve is for NA itself to have a large and good enough scene to the point where the top teams need to constantly be on the ball to compete with other NA teams.
Okay. lol
Once again, more people don't know what they're talking about.
I didn't read the full conversation but just quipping "Once again, more people don't know what they're talking about." doesn't fly. Either tell him why he's wrong or if you mentioned it before, quote it again. Thanks znf.
That said, NA's biggest weakness imo compared to eastern teams is really their approach to practice. It doesn't matter if there were more LCS teams at C9's level (it'd help a bit but doesn't solve bigger problems). Many NA teams have the uncanny ability to repeat mistakes and not learn from them. If x is the reason why a team loses an LCS match on Week 2, way too fucking often we see the same team commit the very same x mistake on Week 5 and lose again. Sometimes it's as fucking obvious as Baron, otherwise it's something more subtle. But it really shows a lack of discipline.
Edit: ok, after trying to read the nested conversations... I agree with a lot of what znf is saying. @Figgy: Scene doesn't cater to fans, sorry but that's not how it works. If you're a pro, you need and should watch teams better than you. That means right now, watching OGN. No one says you have to watch the games live and wake up in the middle of the night. But if you aren't watching videos of teams better than you, good luck trying to innovate. Also, if you think that players who move to Korea don't get better, that's fucking unbelievable (e.g. flat out wrong).
@Itsmedudeman: I think most pros would want to go to Korea and play in OGN winter during the off season, why the hell not? I think it's ridiculous to think LCS teams wouldn't learn more by playing against the OGN, hell even NLB, teams. Link even said in an interview that he used to think his laning was good. Until he got a real fucking dose of reality and laned against Faker. Link gives me the impression that he has humility and this revelation from All-Star will push him to become even better.
On May 11 2014 07:50 Figgy wrote:The ONLY reason anyone even went to Korea for Brood War wasn't to get better, it was because the only possible way you could ever making a living playing Brood War was by moving to Korea.
On May 11 2014 09:58 KissBlade wrote: Finally got to watch today's games. Got to say, Paris' crowd is fcking awesome. The fact that they cheer everyone on is epic.
Hear, hear. Puts CN fans to fucking shame. Not even close.
On May 11 2014 09:58 KissBlade wrote: Finally got to watch today's games. Got to say, Paris' crowd is fcking awesome. The fact that they cheer everyone on is epic.
So, Im finally catching up as well. Seems to me that in Game 1 C9 lost because of either nerves (Sneaky and Balls combined to be out of position 4-5 times essentially losing them the game), or because the got, for lack of a better word, "Moscow 5ed". Basically, its the old M5/GG way that they would always place top 4, because even when they would lose lane they would force a freaky pace that somehow caused 2 of Alex/Diamond/Darien/Genja to end up 50+ CS ahead of their opponent while not giving up any extra objectives. That is basically what happened.
Edit. and UHHG this C9 Comp in Game 2, only 1 ball delivery champion? With Leona open and the ability to save the orianna for last pick?
On May 11 2014 09:58 KissBlade wrote: Finally got to watch today's games. Got to say, Paris' crowd is fcking awesome. The fact that they cheer everyone on is epic.
Hear, hear. Puts CN fans to fucking shame. Not even close.
Oh god, don't even remind me. I mean, CN teams obviously get cheered against pretty often but to put that sort of display at last years all stars was embarrassing =\.
On May 11 2014 09:58 KissBlade wrote: Finally got to watch today's games. Got to say, Paris' crowd is fcking awesome. The fact that they cheer everyone on is epic.
Hear, hear. Puts CN fans to fucking shame. Not even close.
Oh god, don't even remind me. I mean, CN teams obviously get cheered against pretty often but to put that sort of display at last years all stars was embarrassing =\.
Not to mention WCG where the CN fans started stomping on their OMG thundersticks after they lost to blaze.
On May 11 2014 09:58 KissBlade wrote: Finally got to watch today's games. Got to say, Paris' crowd is fcking awesome. The fact that they cheer everyone on is epic.
Hear, hear. Puts CN fans to fucking shame. Not even close.
Oh god, don't even remind me. I mean, CN teams obviously get cheered against pretty often but to put that sort of display at last years all stars was embarrassing =\.
Not to mention WCG where the CN fans started stomping on their OMG thundersticks after they lost to blaze.
Did OMG not learn from the first time they "forgot" to shake hands with Faker?
Perhaps a trip down memory lane to S3 WC is needed: Context: OMG didn't shake hands after their first win vs SKT at S3 WC. Whatever the reason, Faker didn't take it too well and decided to go into super-saiyan mode in their next match-up and landed non-stop charms.
On May 11 2014 09:58 KissBlade wrote: Finally got to watch today's games. Got to say, Paris' crowd is fcking awesome. The fact that they cheer everyone on is epic.
Hear, hear. Puts CN fans to fucking shame. Not even close.
It's also great that they don't cheer when the wards are being cleared. Thank god. Paris is amazing.
On May 11 2014 01:17 cuppatea wrote: I recall Chauster in one of his AMA's confidently predicting that Korea would never be able to surpass NA in LoL due to the size of the headstart they had. He obviously never followed Starcraft.
Fucking Aesop wrote The Tortoise and the Hare for a reason. For a supposedly intelligent person you might've thougt Chauster had read it before.
Chauster simply prefers Achilles and the Tortoise
Ha!
Glad I went to bed after OMG vs C9 tbh; looking forward to the finals #freeCool (tbh, Bengi vs Pomelo in a blind pick Nunu-off would be pretty entertaining)
On May 11 2014 10:59 MayorITC wrote: Did OMG not learn from the first time they "forgot" to shake hands with Faker?
Perhaps a trip down memory lane to S3 WC is needed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYj5Iwv2GIU Context: OMG didn't shake hands after their first win vs SKT at S3 WC. Whatever the reason, Faker didn't take it too well and decided to go into super-saiyan mode in their next match-up and landed non-stop charms.
EPT
