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[S3 Worlds] Group Stage - Page 10

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Don_Julio
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
2220 Posts
September 14 2013 10:08 GMT
#181
On September 14 2013 19:04 glzElectromaster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2013 15:12 UmberBane wrote:
Honestly, you can not compare Montecristo to players. You just can't. He fills a completely different niche, which he is good at. He blatantly admits that he has, in comparison, very little understanding of the intricacies of lane matchups and item builds and all that stuff, that pro players are going to have (and also ex-pro player casters like Jatt or Kobe), but he is almost bound, by the nature of his job, to have a better big picture team strategy understanding than most players have individually. Players have to focus on completely different things to keep their mechanics up, their decision making, everything that makes them good as an individual, which leaves little time in the day for actually studying professional strategies. That's the reason why Koreans have so many coaches and analysts, because they simply can achieve a very high level of strategic knowledge simply by studying strategies and vods over and over again, while the players themselves simpy don't have enough ours in their day to do both.

Montecristo falls into this category of an analyst, because this is the niche he fills as a caster. Many people here seem to think that he simply observes the game and makes up his own conclusions, but in reality he frequently talks to professional analysts/coaches and players of top Korean teams and learns from their immense knowledge. You can see how much he actually improved since he arrived in Korea.

So, just don't compare them. If someone says "Montecristo has better LoL knowledge than most pros" that's a very vague statement that will never apply like that. If you say he has better team strategy knowledge than most pros, then it wouldn't be to put down any pro player at all, because their main focus is bound to be on other (very important aspects) of the game that Montecristo has little knowledge in. Equally someone like kkoma (coach for SKT) is bound to have a wider understanding of the overall team strategies than his players, because we can easily assume that he focuses on that aspect 12 hours a day or so, while his players are busy practicing 12 hours a day. This happens in many sports and is not an insult to any player, if their coach knows more about some of the aspects of the game...

/rant


I concur with UmberBane here. If you know anything about Broodwar/Sc2/Almost every eSport ever, even the best, godly players have coaches that got them up there, despite their coaches being much more underwhelming when they were pros themselves. Flash's coach was a first generation pro that got high in rankings but never achieved too many great things. Coach Ryu Won that raised MMA to championships, I don't know if he even played Sc2 competitively. Game knowledge =/= Game skill.

Guess who was the mastermind behind Fantasy's success.
glzElectromaster
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
Japan2474 Posts
September 14 2013 10:09 GMT
#182
On September 14 2013 19:08 Don_Julio wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2013 19:04 glzElectromaster wrote:
On September 14 2013 15:12 UmberBane wrote:
Honestly, you can not compare Montecristo to players. You just can't. He fills a completely different niche, which he is good at. He blatantly admits that he has, in comparison, very little understanding of the intricacies of lane matchups and item builds and all that stuff, that pro players are going to have (and also ex-pro player casters like Jatt or Kobe), but he is almost bound, by the nature of his job, to have a better big picture team strategy understanding than most players have individually. Players have to focus on completely different things to keep their mechanics up, their decision making, everything that makes them good as an individual, which leaves little time in the day for actually studying professional strategies. That's the reason why Koreans have so many coaches and analysts, because they simply can achieve a very high level of strategic knowledge simply by studying strategies and vods over and over again, while the players themselves simpy don't have enough ours in their day to do both.

Montecristo falls into this category of an analyst, because this is the niche he fills as a caster. Many people here seem to think that he simply observes the game and makes up his own conclusions, but in reality he frequently talks to professional analysts/coaches and players of top Korean teams and learns from their immense knowledge. You can see how much he actually improved since he arrived in Korea.

So, just don't compare them. If someone says "Montecristo has better LoL knowledge than most pros" that's a very vague statement that will never apply like that. If you say he has better team strategy knowledge than most pros, then it wouldn't be to put down any pro player at all, because their main focus is bound to be on other (very important aspects) of the game that Montecristo has little knowledge in. Equally someone like kkoma (coach for SKT) is bound to have a wider understanding of the overall team strategies than his players, because we can easily assume that he focuses on that aspect 12 hours a day or so, while his players are busy practicing 12 hours a day. This happens in many sports and is not an insult to any player, if their coach knows more about some of the aspects of the game...

/rant


I concur with UmberBane here. If you know anything about Broodwar/Sc2/Almost every eSport ever, even the best, godly players have coaches that got them up there, despite their coaches being much more underwhelming when they were pros themselves. Flash's coach was a first generation pro that got high in rankings but never achieved too many great things. Coach Ryu Won that raised MMA to championships, I don't know if he even played Sc2 competitively. Game knowledge =/= Game skill.

Guess who was the mastermind behind Fantasy's success.


You mean his silver surfing? :D

Don't tell me all the coaches in BW were like Boxer and oov
RIP Kt. Violet | In solitude, where we are least alone
nikuniku
Profile Joined August 2013
212 Posts
September 14 2013 12:28 GMT
#183
Is Rengar allowed for S3? I remember that he was banned because of some bug.
PaleMan
Profile Joined October 2002
Russian Federation1953 Posts
September 14 2013 15:31 GMT
#184
On September 14 2013 21:28 nikuniku wrote:
Is Rengar allowed for S3? I remember that he was banned because of some bug.


he got nerfed since then
i think yes, cause chinese teams used him a lot during qualifiers
Pure fan
Ethelis
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States2397 Posts
September 14 2013 15:46 GMT
#185
On September 14 2013 19:08 Don_Julio wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2013 19:04 glzElectromaster wrote:
On September 14 2013 15:12 UmberBane wrote:
Honestly, you can not compare Montecristo to players. You just can't. He fills a completely different niche, which he is good at. He blatantly admits that he has, in comparison, very little understanding of the intricacies of lane matchups and item builds and all that stuff, that pro players are going to have (and also ex-pro player casters like Jatt or Kobe), but he is almost bound, by the nature of his job, to have a better big picture team strategy understanding than most players have individually. Players have to focus on completely different things to keep their mechanics up, their decision making, everything that makes them good as an individual, which leaves little time in the day for actually studying professional strategies. That's the reason why Koreans have so many coaches and analysts, because they simply can achieve a very high level of strategic knowledge simply by studying strategies and vods over and over again, while the players themselves simpy don't have enough ours in their day to do both.

Montecristo falls into this category of an analyst, because this is the niche he fills as a caster. Many people here seem to think that he simply observes the game and makes up his own conclusions, but in reality he frequently talks to professional analysts/coaches and players of top Korean teams and learns from their immense knowledge. You can see how much he actually improved since he arrived in Korea.

So, just don't compare them. If someone says "Montecristo has better LoL knowledge than most pros" that's a very vague statement that will never apply like that. If you say he has better team strategy knowledge than most pros, then it wouldn't be to put down any pro player at all, because their main focus is bound to be on other (very important aspects) of the game that Montecristo has little knowledge in. Equally someone like kkoma (coach for SKT) is bound to have a wider understanding of the overall team strategies than his players, because we can easily assume that he focuses on that aspect 12 hours a day or so, while his players are busy practicing 12 hours a day. This happens in many sports and is not an insult to any player, if their coach knows more about some of the aspects of the game...

/rant


I concur with UmberBane here. If you know anything about Broodwar/Sc2/Almost every eSport ever, even the best, godly players have coaches that got them up there, despite their coaches being much more underwhelming when they were pros themselves. Flash's coach was a first generation pro that got high in rankings but never achieved too many great things. Coach Ryu Won that raised MMA to championships, I don't know if he even played Sc2 competitively. Game knowledge =/= Game skill.

Guess who was the mastermind behind Fantasy's success.


oov was a freaking genius though. Add some Boxer cutesy cheesiness (there's more to it, i know) and that's the cherry on top.
Disabled gamer - Diamond 3 (LoL) D+ Rank scrublord on BW. Bisu doesnt need DTs, He uses probes. just ask Flash.
Lysanias
Profile Joined March 2011
Netherlands8351 Posts
September 14 2013 16:13 GMT
#186
On September 11 2013 14:24 Fionn wrote:
Faker vs. Cool will be the best player in the world (consensually) facing the guy who probably has the best chance of knocking him off outside Korea.

Faker vs. Reginald will either end in everyone shitting on North America, Reginald or TSM, or a miracle will happen and Reginald will beat Faker, retire on the spot and move to Hawaii.


Regi will pick karthas and go top, AD+ support will go mid.
There is no way Regi is crazy enough to go 1v1 vs Faker.
Slangen
Profile Joined August 2011
Sweden1166 Posts
September 14 2013 17:16 GMT
#187
On September 15 2013 01:13 Lysanias wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2013 14:24 Fionn wrote:
Faker vs. Cool will be the best player in the world (consensually) facing the guy who probably has the best chance of knocking him off outside Korea.

Faker vs. Reginald will either end in everyone shitting on North America, Reginald or TSM, or a miracle will happen and Reginald will beat Faker, retire on the spot and move to Hawaii.


Regi will pick karthas and go top, AD+ support will go mid.
There is no way Regi is crazy enough to go 1v1 vs Faker.

By that you mean Regi always play safe? dunno about that
Fnatic - TSM - EG
HorsemasterK
Profile Joined August 2010
United States606 Posts
September 14 2013 17:34 GMT
#188
On September 15 2013 01:13 Lysanias wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2013 14:24 Fionn wrote:
Faker vs. Cool will be the best player in the world (consensually) facing the guy who probably has the best chance of knocking him off outside Korea.

Faker vs. Reginald will either end in everyone shitting on North America, Reginald or TSM, or a miracle will happen and Reginald will beat Faker, retire on the spot and move to Hawaii.



There is no way Regi is crazy enough to


Famous last words.
udgnim
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States8024 Posts
September 14 2013 17:38 GMT
#189
On September 15 2013 01:13 Lysanias wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2013 14:24 Fionn wrote:
Faker vs. Cool will be the best player in the world (consensually) facing the guy who probably has the best chance of knocking him off outside Korea.

Faker vs. Reginald will either end in everyone shitting on North America, Reginald or TSM, or a miracle will happen and Reginald will beat Faker, retire on the spot and move to Hawaii.


Regi will pick karthas and go top, AD+ support will go mid.
There is no way Regi is crazy enough to go 1v1 vs Faker.


opposing team bans Karthus & Ahri

Regi picks Fizz because all he can do now is provide fan service and has given up on trying to win
E-Sports is competitive video gaming with a spectator fan base. Do not take the word "Sports" literally.
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
September 14 2013 17:59 GMT
#190
On September 15 2013 01:13 Lysanias wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2013 14:24 Fionn wrote:
Faker vs. Cool will be the best player in the world (consensually) facing the guy who probably has the best chance of knocking him off outside Korea.

Faker vs. Reginald will either end in everyone shitting on North America, Reginald or TSM, or a miracle will happen and Reginald will beat Faker, retire on the spot and move to Hawaii.


Regi will pick karthas and go top, AD+ support will go mid.
There is no way Regi is crazy enough to go 1v1 vs Faker.

TSM typically NEVER have 2v1 lanes mid.
Roffles *
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Pitcairn19291 Posts
September 14 2013 18:18 GMT
#191
On September 14 2013 19:08 Don_Julio wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2013 19:04 glzElectromaster wrote:
On September 14 2013 15:12 UmberBane wrote:
Honestly, you can not compare Montecristo to players. You just can't. He fills a completely different niche, which he is good at. He blatantly admits that he has, in comparison, very little understanding of the intricacies of lane matchups and item builds and all that stuff, that pro players are going to have (and also ex-pro player casters like Jatt or Kobe), but he is almost bound, by the nature of his job, to have a better big picture team strategy understanding than most players have individually. Players have to focus on completely different things to keep their mechanics up, their decision making, everything that makes them good as an individual, which leaves little time in the day for actually studying professional strategies. That's the reason why Koreans have so many coaches and analysts, because they simply can achieve a very high level of strategic knowledge simply by studying strategies and vods over and over again, while the players themselves simpy don't have enough ours in their day to do both.

Montecristo falls into this category of an analyst, because this is the niche he fills as a caster. Many people here seem to think that he simply observes the game and makes up his own conclusions, but in reality he frequently talks to professional analysts/coaches and players of top Korean teams and learns from their immense knowledge. You can see how much he actually improved since he arrived in Korea.

So, just don't compare them. If someone says "Montecristo has better LoL knowledge than most pros" that's a very vague statement that will never apply like that. If you say he has better team strategy knowledge than most pros, then it wouldn't be to put down any pro player at all, because their main focus is bound to be on other (very important aspects) of the game that Montecristo has little knowledge in. Equally someone like kkoma (coach for SKT) is bound to have a wider understanding of the overall team strategies than his players, because we can easily assume that he focuses on that aspect 12 hours a day or so, while his players are busy practicing 12 hours a day. This happens in many sports and is not an insult to any player, if their coach knows more about some of the aspects of the game...

/rant


I concur with UmberBane here. If you know anything about Broodwar/Sc2/Almost every eSport ever, even the best, godly players have coaches that got them up there, despite their coaches being much more underwhelming when they were pros themselves. Flash's coach was a first generation pro that got high in rankings but never achieved too many great things. Coach Ryu Won that raised MMA to championships, I don't know if he even played Sc2 competitively. Game knowledge =/= Game skill.

Guess who was the mastermind behind Fantasy's success.

Better than Fantasy by far. oov is god.
God Bless
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
September 14 2013 18:38 GMT
#192
It's sad that the TL writeup for last year is an argument for favorites meaning nothing to some people. Fucking TL having TSM 3rd. Like, whose idea was THAT
Fionn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States23455 Posts
September 14 2013 18:39 GMT
#193
i wasn't on staff yet to shove my korean dominance mindset.
Writerhttps://twitter.com/FionnOnFire
UmberBane
Profile Joined March 2013
Germany5450 Posts
September 14 2013 18:51 GMT
#194
They actually didn't look that bad against Frost last year to be honest. I don't know about third but they could have possibly been one of the better teams there. This just made me realize how drastically the scene has changed in a year, oh boy.
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-14 18:58:19
September 14 2013 18:57 GMT
#195
On September 15 2013 03:51 UmberBane wrote:
They actually didn't look that bad against Frost last year to be honest. I don't know about third but they could have possibly been one of the better teams there. This just made me realize how drastically the scene has changed in a year, oh boy.

The scenes have changed dramatically. Each region has a distinct style whereas in S2 everyone played almost the same way and the game was very passive and typically came down to team fights.

Hell, even in just a few months the scenes are changing, especially korea. Before spring no one knew who the hell MVP Ozone and SKT T1 were and in even a smaller span of time Blaze became a 3rd tier team. Between February and June it was no question the Chinese were the best region.
Zergneedsfood
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States10671 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-14 20:13:46
September 14 2013 19:58 GMT
#196
na blows eu blows kr cn will destroy the white people

hell half the eu na teams are yellow people anyways

sorry csheep biggest troll, will kill me if I delete this
/人◕ ‿‿ ◕人\ Make a contract with me and join TLADT | Onodera isn't actually a girl, she's just a doormat you walk over to get to the girl. - Numy 2015
JerKy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Korea (South)3013 Posts
September 14 2013 22:16 GMT
#197
off topic: the prize pool is over 2 million USD, thats fucking crazy
You can type "StarCraft" with just your left hand.
nojitosunrise
Profile Joined August 2011
United States6188 Posts
September 14 2013 22:19 GMT
#198
On September 15 2013 07:16 JerKy wrote:
off topic: the prize pool is over 2 million USD, thats fucking crazy


Not including the money riot paid in salaries to the LCS teams
Redox
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany24794 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-14 22:22:52
September 14 2013 22:22 GMT
#199
On September 15 2013 07:19 nojitosunrise wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 15 2013 07:16 JerKy wrote:
off topic: the prize pool is over 2 million USD, thats fucking crazy


Not including the money riot paid in salaries to the LCS teams

Then you could also include all the prize money for the regional tournaments.
Off-season = best season
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
September 14 2013 22:39 GMT
#200
On September 15 2013 00:46 Ethelis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2013 19:08 Don_Julio wrote:
On September 14 2013 19:04 glzElectromaster wrote:
On September 14 2013 15:12 UmberBane wrote:
Honestly, you can not compare Montecristo to players. You just can't. He fills a completely different niche, which he is good at. He blatantly admits that he has, in comparison, very little understanding of the intricacies of lane matchups and item builds and all that stuff, that pro players are going to have (and also ex-pro player casters like Jatt or Kobe), but he is almost bound, by the nature of his job, to have a better big picture team strategy understanding than most players have individually. Players have to focus on completely different things to keep their mechanics up, their decision making, everything that makes them good as an individual, which leaves little time in the day for actually studying professional strategies. That's the reason why Koreans have so many coaches and analysts, because they simply can achieve a very high level of strategic knowledge simply by studying strategies and vods over and over again, while the players themselves simpy don't have enough ours in their day to do both.

Montecristo falls into this category of an analyst, because this is the niche he fills as a caster. Many people here seem to think that he simply observes the game and makes up his own conclusions, but in reality he frequently talks to professional analysts/coaches and players of top Korean teams and learns from their immense knowledge. You can see how much he actually improved since he arrived in Korea.

So, just don't compare them. If someone says "Montecristo has better LoL knowledge than most pros" that's a very vague statement that will never apply like that. If you say he has better team strategy knowledge than most pros, then it wouldn't be to put down any pro player at all, because their main focus is bound to be on other (very important aspects) of the game that Montecristo has little knowledge in. Equally someone like kkoma (coach for SKT) is bound to have a wider understanding of the overall team strategies than his players, because we can easily assume that he focuses on that aspect 12 hours a day or so, while his players are busy practicing 12 hours a day. This happens in many sports and is not an insult to any player, if their coach knows more about some of the aspects of the game...

/rant


I concur with UmberBane here. If you know anything about Broodwar/Sc2/Almost every eSport ever, even the best, godly players have coaches that got them up there, despite their coaches being much more underwhelming when they were pros themselves. Flash's coach was a first generation pro that got high in rankings but never achieved too many great things. Coach Ryu Won that raised MMA to championships, I don't know if he even played Sc2 competitively. Game knowledge =/= Game skill.

Guess who was the mastermind behind Fantasy's success.


oov was a freaking genius though. Add some Boxer cutesy cheesiness (there's more to it, i know) and that's the cherry on top.
the more cutesy fantasy got the worse he got. should just listen to oov exclusively
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
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