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On September 06 2013 04:46 Stupidity wrote:
C9's lanes will be exposed against Koreans, and Koreans won't throw that advantage in teamfights like NA does. Also, Korean mids are world class, whereas NA has the likes of Reginald and co.
Also C9's early worries me, any top team knows how to take small advantages and snowball it to the end.
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Honestly, I could see c9 taking out either CJ Blaze or KT B if we are judging by how they played today. KT didn't play particularly well, they made a large number of sloppy plays, but it just didn't matter against a broken Blaze. Insec in particular was putrid today for some reason. If they play like this against CJ Frost tomorrow then their season will likely be over as well.
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those back to back suicide dives by flame in game 1 at dragon were just mind numbing. flame needs to be better then that for them. to me that dragon fight put a even game into a definitive loss for blaze
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United States23455 Posts
On September 06 2013 05:49 IamPryda wrote:
those back to back suicide dives by flame in game 1 at dragon were just mind numbing. flame needs to be better then that for them. to me that dragon fight put a even game into a definitive loss for blaze
Yeah, that was incredibly stupid. Hermes had no mana and they were positioned horribly. He tried to 1v5 and actually did quite a bit of damage, but the position + the ADC having no mana pretty much put them behind the eight ball. He was trying to get something going for his team and even if he didn't try to dive the back line, they still would have lost like the other two games, but he was trying to carry too hard in the first game. He counter picked inSec the other two games and had an easy time beating him up, but by the time he actually left the lane, Ryu and Score were already Super Saiyan.
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Anyone else think ambitions performance has been shit because they neutered both kha6 and jayce? He was godly on those two champs.
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Baa?21247 Posts
On September 06 2013 04:35 IMoperator wrote:
after that performance by blaze I have a lot more faith in C9 lol. If that's one of the "top" korean teams, then there's no reason why C9 shouldn't be able to do at least better than that shit at worlds.
if by top you mean behind skt, ktb, ozone, frost at the very least and is the 5th best at best team, sure.
basically they're the...curse? of korea in terms of rankings? lol
korea will shit on c9 people are delusional, koreans look bad when they're against other koreans they'll coast vs na/eu
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On September 06 2013 06:58 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2013 04:35 IMoperator wrote:
after that performance by blaze I have a lot more faith in C9 lol. If that's one of the "top" korean teams, then there's no reason why C9 shouldn't be able to do at least better than that shit at worlds. if by top you mean behind skt, ktb, ozone, frost at the very least and is the 5th best at best team, sure. basically they're the...curse? of korea in terms of rankings? lol korea will shit on c9 people are delusional, koreans look bad when they're against other koreans they'll coast vs na/eu
You can't really say that, take Gambit as example, they always struggle against tier 2 teams making a lot of mistakes, put them on an IEM against koreans and they can stomp CJ's at their top performance.
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United States47024 Posts
On September 06 2013 07:10 FrostRyan wrote:
You can't really say that, take Gambit as example, they always struggle against tier 2 teams making a lot of mistakes, put them on an IEM against koreans and they can stomp CJ's at their top performance.
Gambit is a CIS team that has a vast amount of big LAN experience. CIS teams have a long history of pulling out 150% performance at big LANs, not just in LoL but in other games as well.
C9 is an NA team with no big LAN experience. Night and day here.
Pretty much the way this works is this. If it's a CIS team, expect them to do 1.5x as well at a big LAN. If they're a team that hasn't played at big LANs before, expect them to do 60% as well at their first big LAN.
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On September 06 2013 04:35 IMoperator wrote:
after that performance by blaze I have a lot more faith in C9 lol. If that's one of the "top" korean teams, then there's no reason why C9 shouldn't be able to do at least better than that shit at worlds.
KT B are a top team. Were the games against Blaze somehow close? No! That makes Blaze in its current state by no means a top team. If you get thrashed that hard, you don´t belong to the top.
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i noob what CIS mean
i googled it and somehow I don't think Yango means Gambit is a Canadian Interuniversity Sports team
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United States47024 Posts
On September 06 2013 07:35 Ryuu314 wrote:
i noob what CIS mean
CIS = Commonwealth of Independent States = Russia and related countries (Ukraine, etc.).
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TL so down on Cloud 9, haha. I actually think they might make semis depending on who they get matched up against (obviously someone like SKT or OMG will stomp them into the ground, but they might be able to pull off the upset against a team like Lemondogs, Najin, or Frost).
C9 I BELIEVE
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Remember when Dig/Crs were top of the NA LCS and then got shitstomped by Gambit/KT B at MLG?
The lack of inter region play means there's no way to relate the region objectively. But C9 are going to get crushed because its their first LAN against S-tier teams.
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On September 06 2013 08:18 xes wrote:
The lack of inter region play means there's no way to relate the region objectively.
On September 06 2013 08:18 xes wrote:
But C9 are going to get crushed
Didn't you just... counter your own point there? Yes, they're S-Tier teams, but we still don't know how C9 stacks up against them until we see them in the rift.
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I remember back when I believed in NA players/teams in any esport, the innocent days.
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Despite C9 being a strong team, their teamfighting is very underwhelming. C9 could shat on TSM among other teams during this season, but they got away with bad positioning due to the massive snowball and ofcourse the worse positioning by the other team. SKT, CJ F, and MVP O won't let you get away with that. Even Sword has been traditionally a strong team fighting team.
C9 will have to mix up their strategy that relies so hard on strong laning if they don't want to be exploited.
On September 06 2013 08:36 BrownBear wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2013 08:18 xes wrote:
The lack of inter region play means there's no way to relate the region objectively.
Didn't you just... counter your own point there? Yes, they're S-Tier teams, but we still don't know how C9 stacks up against them until we see them in the rift.
I don't think he did. You would take his second one out of context. He's not saying C9 will lose because KR >>>> NA. He's saying since they're inexperienced in huge lan tournaments, they will have a really hard time, not because they lack skill.
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On September 06 2013 09:32 glzElectromaster wrote:Despite C9 being a strong team, their teamfighting is very underwhelming. C9 could shat on TSM among other teams during this season, but they got away with bad positioning due to the massive snowball and ofcourse the worse positioning by the other team. SKT, CJ F, and MVP O won't let you get away with that. Even Sword has been traditionally a strong team fighting team. C9 will have to mix up their strategy that relies so hard on strong laning if they don't want to be exploited. Show nested quote +On September 06 2013 08:36 BrownBear wrote:On September 06 2013 08:18 xes wrote:
The lack of inter region play means there's no way to relate the region objectively.
On September 06 2013 08:18 xes wrote:
But C9 are going to get crushed Didn't you just... counter your own point there? Yes, they're S-Tier teams, but we still don't know how C9 stacks up against them until we see them in the rift. I don't think he did. You would take his second one out of context. He's not saying C9 will lose because KR >>>> NA. He's saying since they're inexperienced in huge lan tournaments, they will have a really hard time, not because they lack skill.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't TPA also lack that experience last year?
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On September 06 2013 09:37 BrownBear wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2013 09:32 glzElectromaster wrote:Despite C9 being a strong team, their teamfighting is very underwhelming. C9 could shat on TSM among other teams during this season, but they got away with bad positioning due to the massive snowball and ofcourse the worse positioning by the other team. SKT, CJ F, and MVP O won't let you get away with that. Even Sword has been traditionally a strong team fighting team. C9 will have to mix up their strategy that relies so hard on strong laning if they don't want to be exploited. On September 06 2013 08:36 BrownBear wrote:On September 06 2013 08:18 xes wrote:
The lack of inter region play means there's no way to relate the region objectively.
On September 06 2013 08:18 xes wrote:
But C9 are going to get crushed Didn't you just... counter your own point there? Yes, they're S-Tier teams, but we still don't know how C9 stacks up against them until we see them in the rift. I don't think he did. You would take his second one out of context. He's not saying C9 will lose because KR >>>> NA. He's saying since they're inexperienced in huge lan tournaments, they will have a really hard time, not because they lack skill. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't TPA also lack that experience last year?
TPA wasn't the most experienced team either, but they did compete in WCG 2011, which is some international LAN experience.
I'm curious to see how the stylistic matchups go between the continents.. Cloud 9 often made the top of the forums in Korea, so I'm sure at least Ozone and Sword checks them out often.
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United States47024 Posts
On September 06 2013 09:37 BrownBear wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't TPA also lack that experience last year?
No? TPA participated in a lot of overseas LAN tournaments in China (Starswar, NGF, etc.). In fact, most LAN tournaments they played in were overseas LANs because the Taiwanese local scene is too small for major LANs to be a common occurrence. Even GPL finals were overseas LANs for them.
The dealbreaker is the lack of high pressure best-of series games. Food for thought: the only competitive best of 5 series that Cloud 9 has played at a major event, in this iteration or even when they were Quantic were NA Regionals finals and before that the finals for the Solomid Series against Curse back in November. They've only EVER played 2 professional tournament Bo5s, and one of those was an online tournament. That can only be called lacking by any possible measurement.
At the point where teams are relatively close in skill, it stops being JUST about skill and winning BoX matches starts being about how the teams handle the stage pressure, the tension, and the mindgames of a BoX series. C9 could be as good as your wildest estimations of their skill, and it won't mean shit when they're in a 2-2 loser-leaves-the-tournament game 5 of a nailbiter series.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
main thing is that the rest of the NA scene is so bad, especially in terms of coordinated team play executing a coherent strategy, it hugely devalues the meaningfulness of anything c9 does.
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EPT
