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Keep the rage to a minimum. This includes wait times between games, music, and balance.
Fair warning to all. |
On October 11 2012 04:41 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 04:36 TheYango wrote:On October 11 2012 04:34 WhiteDog wrote:
Now the best part of all this is that nobody is forcing anyone to watch Riot's tournaments or play Riot's game, if you consider Riot's failure to be too much then just play something else. I don't know how you're getting that I dislike the game simply from the fact that I disapprove of how the tournament was run. Because you basically criticise everything, since day 1, and always ends up making the comparaison with valve, I see you have a different agenda than just helping riot giving your own point of view. Don't misunderstand me, criticising the tournament is a good thing and some of your posts are interesting, but trying to value TI2 and valve's in regard to Riot's day 3 failure is just getting on my nerve. At some point, dota 2 players needs to stop trying to shove dota2 and valve in LOL players' throats.
The backlash is expected due to the way Riot's shoved LEADER IN ESPORTS, RAISING THE BAR WHERE IT BELONGS, and BIGGEST TOURNEY EVER since their entry into the scene. Look at their practices and attitudes and tell me that the critism isn't deserved.
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On October 11 2012 04:41 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 04:36 TheYango wrote:On October 11 2012 04:34 WhiteDog wrote:
Now the best part of all this is that nobody is forcing anyone to watch Riot's tournaments or play Riot's game, if you consider Riot's failure to be too much then just play something else. I don't know how you're getting that I dislike the game simply from the fact that I disapprove of how the tournament was run. Because you basically criticise everything, since day 1, and always ends up making the comparaison with valve, I see you have a different agenda than just helping riot giving your own point of view. Don't misunderstand me, criticising the tournament is a good thing and some of your posts are interesting, but trying to value TI2 and valve's in regard to Riot's day 3 failure is just getting on my nerve. At some point, dota 2 players needs to stop trying to shove dota2 and valve in LOL players' throats.
Seriously, get the hell out if you think yango has some hidden agenda to push for Valve and dota 2 in this subforum.
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On October 11 2012 04:45 Kupon3ss wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 04:41 WhiteDog wrote:On October 11 2012 04:36 TheYango wrote:On October 11 2012 04:34 WhiteDog wrote:
Now the best part of all this is that nobody is forcing anyone to watch Riot's tournaments or play Riot's game, if you consider Riot's failure to be too much then just play something else. I don't know how you're getting that I dislike the game simply from the fact that I disapprove of how the tournament was run. Because you basically criticise everything, since day 1, and always ends up making the comparaison with valve, I see you have a different agenda than just helping riot giving your own point of view. Don't misunderstand me, criticising the tournament is a good thing and some of your posts are interesting, but trying to value TI2 and valve's in regard to Riot's day 3 failure is just getting on my nerve. At some point, dota 2 players needs to stop trying to shove dota2 and valve in LOL players' throats. The backlash is expected due to the way Riot's shoved LEADER IN ESPORTS, RAISING THE BAR WHERE IT BELONGS, and BIGGEST TOURNEY EVER since their entry into the scene. Look at their practices and attitudes and tell me that the critism isn't deserved.
Cool.
But i think most problem people have with TheYango's post is the misdirection of criticism.
On October 11 2012 03:41 TheYango wrote:
- Kha'zix patch was released 1 week before World Championships. What's more, this was a full-blown content patch, using the work of the studio as normal to develop. There was effectively no transition into working on on Worlds. What's more, Ezreal made a Twitter post on developing a new AD carry the Monday after the event--indicating a business-as-usual Monday for most of the company after this weekend. You have the biggest fiasco in E-sports history on your hands--HOW ARE YOU NOT DEVOTING THE ENTIRE STUDIO TO FIX THIS?
Valve--ALL of Valve--put their hearts and souls into making TI2 work. Riot feels like the E-sports department did the work itself (with some contracted-out manpower), and for the most part the rest of the company didn't really give a damn and just continued business as usual.
The thing is that the Kha'zix patch had nothing to do with the planning leading up to the event, and used resources UNRELATED to the event, and wasn't even IMPLEMENTED at the event.
Its only for that reason of misdirection is why alot of people are having issues with yango's post. If it was just left at "Riot claims leader of esports" and "their esports division failed because of these managers and these issues" then sure, go right ahead, ill agree with every post. But there is a big line of who does what job and who owns responsibility for the execution of that job.
Can you understand that point or are we still speaking two different languages?
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On October 11 2012 04:47 GARO wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 04:41 WhiteDog wrote:On October 11 2012 04:36 TheYango wrote:On October 11 2012 04:34 WhiteDog wrote:
Now the best part of all this is that nobody is forcing anyone to watch Riot's tournaments or play Riot's game, if you consider Riot's failure to be too much then just play something else. I don't know how you're getting that I dislike the game simply from the fact that I disapprove of how the tournament was run. Because you basically criticise everything, since day 1, and always ends up making the comparaison with valve, I see you have a different agenda than just helping riot giving your own point of view. Don't misunderstand me, criticising the tournament is a good thing and some of your posts are interesting, but trying to value TI2 and valve's in regard to Riot's day 3 failure is just getting on my nerve. At some point, dota 2 players needs to stop trying to shove dota2 and valve in LOL players' throats. Seriously, get the hell out if you think yango has some hidden agenda to push for Valve and dota 2 in this subforum.
I don't really care, I'm just giving my point of view. The constant comparaison between valve and riot is unecessary, just like the comparaison between SC1 and SC2 back in the days was not only boring but also redondant (same arguments over and over).
I don't really think saying that Riot lacks passion for the game is the best way to help Riot doing better, just like I don't think we need to look at TI2 to see where are the S2 world tournaments' flaws.
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When will it start? Im so bad at time zones ><
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Russian Federation798 Posts
On October 11 2012 04:55 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 04:47 GARO wrote:On October 11 2012 04:41 WhiteDog wrote:On October 11 2012 04:36 TheYango wrote:On October 11 2012 04:34 WhiteDog wrote:
Now the best part of all this is that nobody is forcing anyone to watch Riot's tournaments or play Riot's game, if you consider Riot's failure to be too much then just play something else. I don't know how you're getting that I dislike the game simply from the fact that I disapprove of how the tournament was run. Because you basically criticise everything, since day 1, and always ends up making the comparaison with valve, I see you have a different agenda than just helping riot giving your own point of view. Don't misunderstand me, criticising the tournament is a good thing and some of your posts are interesting, but trying to value TI2 and valve's in regard to Riot's day 3 failure is just getting on my nerve. At some point, dota 2 players needs to stop trying to shove dota2 and valve in LOL players' throats. Seriously, get the hell out if you think yango has some hidden agenda to push for Valve and dota 2 in this subforum. I don't really care, I'm just giving my point of view. The constant comparaison between valve and riot is unecessary, just like the comparaison between SC1 and SC2 back in the days was not only boring but also redondant (same arguments over and over). I don't really think saying that Riot lacks passion for the game is the best way to help Riot doing better, just like I don't think we need to look at TI2 to see where are the S2 world tournaments' flaws.
There is no point in trying to stop the comparison, it is what people naturally do. After all this whole tournament was all about Riot trying to prove they are better that Valve, which failed miserably in the end. I mean having internet failiures and having to reschedule is bad enough, add a cheating controversy to it and you get a complete train wreck. It is extremely obvious that T12 was a much superior event. I just hope Riot can salvage the situation....
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does anyone know what stream they're useing for the rest of the day 3 matches?
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On October 11 2012 04:55 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 04:47 GARO wrote:On October 11 2012 04:41 WhiteDog wrote:On October 11 2012 04:36 TheYango wrote:On October 11 2012 04:34 WhiteDog wrote:
Now the best part of all this is that nobody is forcing anyone to watch Riot's tournaments or play Riot's game, if you consider Riot's failure to be too much then just play something else. I don't know how you're getting that I dislike the game simply from the fact that I disapprove of how the tournament was run. Because you basically criticise everything, since day 1, and always ends up making the comparaison with valve, I see you have a different agenda than just helping riot giving your own point of view. Don't misunderstand me, criticising the tournament is a good thing and some of your posts are interesting, but trying to value TI2 and valve's in regard to Riot's day 3 failure is just getting on my nerve. At some point, dota 2 players needs to stop trying to shove dota2 and valve in LOL players' throats. Seriously, get the hell out if you think yango has some hidden agenda to push for Valve and dota 2 in this subforum. I don't really care, I'm just giving my point of view. The constant comparaison between valve and riot is unecessary, just like the comparaison between SC1 and SC2 back in the days was not only boring but also redondant (same arguments over and over). I don't really think saying that Riot lacks passion for the game is the best way to help Riot doing better, just like I don't think we need to look at TI2 to see where are the S2 world tournaments' flaws.
It's not unnecessary at all.
Riot's biggest competitor atm is Valve. That is no secret. And fyi, Riot was the one who compared themselves to Valve in the first place. Did you not see their trailers for S2WC? All Yango is saying is that Riot didn't live up to the hype that they themselves generated.
If Riot wants LoL to be #1 in its genre, it will absolutely have to butt heads and compete against DotA2. That means any Riot-sponsored event of this scale will absolutely be compared to Valve-sponsored events of similar scale. Riot needs to at least live up to the standard and example set by Valve.
No one is saying Riot lacks passion for making their game #1. People are just saying that Riot mismanaged S2 WC spectacularly and the most annoying thing about it is that a LOT of what was fucked up could've easily have been prevented. Especially considering Riot has had >1 of experience to draw from AND they have an example of a massive scale tournament that was, for the most part, extremely successful (TI2).
Personally, I'm mostly pissed at the fact that stuff like the lack of booths just demonstrates Riot's eSport division's incompetence and stubbornness. For over a year, Riot's esport division has shown that they refuse to listen to the fans and honestly have no idea how to plan a proper tournament. Remember the CDE - Dignitas catastrophe at WC last year? It's stupid shit like that that can be easily prevented that really irks me. Especially when people warned Riot and offered alternatives BEFORE the catastrophe even happened.
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On October 11 2012 05:00 fishinguy wrote:
After all this whole tournament was all about Riot trying to prove they are better that Valve, which failed miserably in the end.
wat
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On October 11 2012 03:59 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 03:41 TheYango wrote:
Personally, the thing to to me is that it just feels like Riot didn't try as hard as Valve when it came to making this the best tournament in the world. If Riot put in all the effort Valve did, and some unfortunate events made them fall short, then I could forgive them. But it's very clear that Riot did not invest as much effort into running the World Championships as Valve did. Let's look at the facts here:
- Two weeks before TI2, Valve effectively went to development standstill to prepare for TI2. The last patch before TI2 was 2 weeks before the event, and development effectively stalled through TI2, as there was no patch for a similar length of time after the event was over. What's more, this patch was a content-less bugfix patch, meaning that it's likely a lot of the designers/artists that had no content to produce were already shifting into TI2 work before the patch. For the period of two weeks leading up to TI2, THE ENTIRE STUDIO was devoted to running the event.
- Kha'zix patch was released 1 week before World Championships. What's more, this was a full-blown content patch, using the work of the studio as normal to develop. There was effectively no transition into working on on Worlds. What's more, Ezreal made a Twitter post on developing a new AD carry the Monday after the event--indicating a business-as-usual Monday for most of the company after this weekend. You have the biggest fiasco in E-sports history on your hands--HOW ARE YOU NOT DEVOTING THE ENTIRE STUDIO TO FIX THIS?
Valve--ALL of Valve--put their hearts and souls into making TI2 work. Riot feels like the E-sports department did the work itself (with some contracted-out manpower), and for the most part the rest of the company didn't really give a damn and just continued business as usual. The constant comparaison between valve and riot is getting boring. Just watch dota2 if they are so better. Every tournament is different, riot made mystakes, there is no point in making the comparaison with valve every second, there are thousand of other tournament that have a better production value than S2. About TSM vs Frost, for me the cheat is obvious, but it didn't change a thing and you cannot blame frost entirely for this since Riot and the venue are at fault. So all in all, frost won and there is no reason to rematch.
I think his point is that he watched both and therefore is trying to objectively show some of the differences in what the respective studios were doing. If you don't like it, ignore it.
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On October 11 2012 03:41 TheYango wrote:
Personally, the thing to to me is that it just feels like Riot didn't try as hard as Valve when it came to making this the best tournament in the world. If Riot put in all the effort Valve did, and some unfortunate events made them fall short, then I could forgive them. But it's very clear that Riot did not invest as much effort into running the World Championships as Valve did. Let's look at the facts here:
- Two weeks before TI2, Valve effectively went to development standstill to prepare for TI2. The last patch before TI2 was 2 weeks before the event, and development effectively stalled through TI2, as there was no patch for a similar length of time after the event was over. What's more, this patch was a content-less bugfix patch, meaning that it's likely a lot of the designers/artists that had no content to produce were already shifting into TI2 work before the patch. For the period of two weeks leading up to TI2, THE ENTIRE STUDIO was devoted to running the event.
- Kha'zix patch was released 1 week before World Championships. What's more, this was a full-blown content patch, using the work of the studio as normal to develop. There was effectively no transition into working on on Worlds. What's more, Ezreal made a Twitter post on developing a new AD carry the Monday after the event--indicating a business-as-usual Monday for most of the company after this weekend. You have the biggest fiasco in E-sports history on your hands--HOW ARE YOU NOT DEVOTING THE ENTIRE STUDIO TO FIX THIS?
Valve--ALL of Valve--put their hearts and souls into making TI2 work. Riot feels like the E-sports department did the work itself (with some contracted-out manpower), and for the most part the rest of the company didn't really give a damn and just continued business as usual.
Wait, you seriously want all the programmers, database administrators, etc. to fly over to work on the event?
It's an event, it requires some managers to pick and rent the venue, the network administrators for tech, a server admin or two to watch the tournament server, a few web designers and artists for all the PR stuff and everything else is work for contractors and volunteers (stage setup, lighting, cameras, make-up, etc.).
How would a database administrator fix a network hardware problem? It just takes the network admins, adding more people doesn't help, only hurts (Mythical Man Month anyone?). It was a fiasco, sure, but having the whole software development department - the guys that actually work on patches - stand around the network admin while he does his stuff doesn't really fix it.
You let the guys that actually have a clue work on the problems. For such events, that is only a very small part of the company. For all others it is business as usual.
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On October 11 2012 05:04 SagaZ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 05:00 fishinguy wrote:
After all this whole tournament was all about Riot trying to prove they are better that Valve, which failed miserably in the end. wat
he has, somewhat, of a point, just needs to be developed more.
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Hey guys to change the tone, any predictions ?
I am really wondering if CLG will keep on playing that very slow turtling style, because I think that it could be figured out by analysing the replays.
Plus it was really hard to enjoy in the end XD.
As for the other match
I think that it will be pure epicness, two agressive team fighting is always beautiful !
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Any prediction ?
yeah I predict I won't be able to watch the stream because it starts at 2am. Good move there riot : (((((((((((((((((((
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I think whoever wins TPA vs M5 is going to win the event.
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On October 11 2012 04:54 Snackysnacks wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 04:45 Kupon3ss wrote:On October 11 2012 04:41 WhiteDog wrote:On October 11 2012 04:36 TheYango wrote:On October 11 2012 04:34 WhiteDog wrote:
Now the best part of all this is that nobody is forcing anyone to watch Riot's tournaments or play Riot's game, if you consider Riot's failure to be too much then just play something else. I don't know how you're getting that I dislike the game simply from the fact that I disapprove of how the tournament was run. Because you basically criticise everything, since day 1, and always ends up making the comparaison with valve, I see you have a different agenda than just helping riot giving your own point of view. Don't misunderstand me, criticising the tournament is a good thing and some of your posts are interesting, but trying to value TI2 and valve's in regard to Riot's day 3 failure is just getting on my nerve. At some point, dota 2 players needs to stop trying to shove dota2 and valve in LOL players' throats. The backlash is expected due to the way Riot's shoved LEADER IN ESPORTS, RAISING THE BAR WHERE IT BELONGS, and BIGGEST TOURNEY EVER since their entry into the scene. Look at their practices and attitudes and tell me that the critism isn't deserved. Cool. But i think most problem people have with TheYango's post is the misdirection of criticism. Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 03:41 TheYango wrote:
- Kha'zix patch was released 1 week before World Championships. What's more, this was a full-blown content patch, using the work of the studio as normal to develop. There was effectively no transition into working on on Worlds. What's more, Ezreal made a Twitter post on developing a new AD carry the Monday after the event--indicating a business-as-usual Monday for most of the company after this weekend. You have the biggest fiasco in E-sports history on your hands--HOW ARE YOU NOT DEVOTING THE ENTIRE STUDIO TO FIX THIS?
Valve--ALL of Valve--put their hearts and souls into making TI2 work. Riot feels like the E-sports department did the work itself (with some contracted-out manpower), and for the most part the rest of the company didn't really give a damn and just continued business as usual. The thing is that the Kha'zix patch had nothing to do with the planning leading up to the event, and used resources UNRELATED to the event, and wasn't even IMPLEMENTED at the event. Its only for that reason of misdirection is why alot of people are having issues with yango's post. If it was just left at "Riot claims leader of esports" and "their esports division failed because of these managers and these issues" then sure, go right ahead, ill agree with every post. But there is a big line of who does what job and who owns responsibility for the execution of that job. Can you understand that point or are we still speaking two different languages?
He just appreciates the way valve halted EVERYTHING to make sure their event went well.. You have to realize that in Valve, your not just only valued for your artistic capability, your valued for your mind, and other talents. Your not stuck doing one thing. So basically everyone helped with TI2 and it worked wonderfully.
So yes the esports team and Riot as a company are responsible, but the rest of Riot could have helped out and maybe they would fix these issues. Let's be honest I'm no engineer or expert but i could have told them to have back up internet trucks like MLG does or maybe... Lan... for a 2 million dollar tournament. You can be helpful if your "field" isn't esports.
Morfildur, the headquarters are in Santa Monica.. it's a drive, not a flight. I don't suggest they fly in from other branches, but hell why not.
Basically if someone is working for Riot and all they know how to do is balance annie's Q, then I don't think Riot makes very good choices when hiring.
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United States47024 Posts
On October 11 2012 05:27 CV-Mackh wrote:
Hey guys to change the tone, any predictions ?
I am really wondering if CLG will keep on playing that very slow turtling style, because I think that it could be figured out by analysing the replays.
Plus it was really hard to enjoy in the end XD.
As for the other match
I think that it will be pure epicness, two agressive team fighting is always beautiful !
WE vs. CLG.Eu is going to come down to WE's preparedness. That much is clear from the first set. WE without a doubt came into games 1 and 2 more prepared than CLG.Eu was, but with regames to let CLG.Eu get back on their feet and to go past what WE planned for, things swung the ther way.
It helps WE immensely that they only are playing the 3rd game over and not the entire series.
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On October 11 2012 05:48 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 05:27 CV-Mackh wrote:
Hey guys to change the tone, any predictions ?
I am really wondering if CLG will keep on playing that very slow turtling style, because I think that it could be figured out by analysing the replays.
Plus it was really hard to enjoy in the end XD.
As for the other match
I think that it will be pure epicness, two agressive team fighting is always beautiful ! WE vs. CLG.Eu is going to come down to WE's preparedness. That much is clear from the first set. WE without a doubt came into games 1 and 2 more prepared than CLG.Eu was, but with regames to let CLG.Eu get back on their feet and to go past what WE planned for, things swung the ther way. It helps WE immensely that they only are playing the 3rd game over and not the entire series.
WE's condition also deteriorated significantly by the end of the day, apparently they had only eaten a light breakfast and didn't grab lunch until sometime around 8 pm
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Not looking good for CLG, yellowpete + scumbagkrepo spotted playing NA soloq.
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EPT
