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[S2] World Championships Discussion - Page 353

Forum Index > LoL Tournaments
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Keep the rage to a minimum. This includes wait times between games, music, and balance.

Fair warning to all.
Jaksiel
Profile Joined November 2008
United States4130 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-06 01:29:48
October 06 2012 01:29 GMT
#7041
I find it odd that so many people are saying that M5 is the only non-Asian hope. CLG.EU was one game away from winning the last season of OGN. No, they didn't close out the series, but they can clearly at least compete on this level. And they have a winning record against M5.
Zero fighting.
I_Love_Bacon
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States5765 Posts
October 06 2012 01:30 GMT
#7042
So now we're going to turn this thread into bashing on Americans in various esports? How about you, you know, not do that because it's an unbelievably fucking stupid thing to talk about.
" i havent been playin sc2 but i woke up w/ a boner and i really had to pee... and my crisis management and micro was really something to behold. it inspired me to play some games today" -Liquid'Tyler
BlackMagister
Profile Joined October 2008
United States5834 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-06 01:31:46
October 06 2012 01:30 GMT
#7043
I wasn't really surprised that TSM lost when they had a 3k gold lead early on they've lost with similar leads many times before. Though TSM losing is not that big of a deal because TSM doesn't get fans because they are the best team in the world but through their streaming and antics. I'm sure TSM did prepare hard for this tournament but I don't think they were that confident of winning nor did anyone have any delusions about them being the favorite to win.
Spuick
Profile Joined April 2011
Norway357 Posts
October 06 2012 01:30 GMT
#7044
On October 06 2012 10:28 henrikyo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2012 10:24 Slaughter wrote:
On October 06 2012 10:20 scarper65 wrote:
It's fascinating just how bad American teams are in just about every esport.


I wouldn't go so far as to say this.

US teams lack infrastructure and just overall professionalization of their epsorts. Its almost like NA teams are amateurs competing against pros when you look at how the scenes are run. Even then NA has produced several stand out players/teams (and I don't really see how TSM 0-2 vs Frost shows OMG NA SUCKS as the games were NOT stomps). The one game type that was competitive that NA scene "liked" IE FPS they had great success actually.

Again, USA never had great sucess in FPS.

Yes they had some sucess early in CS, but that was mostly due to lack of good teams.
When SK was good, they won everything.
Fnatic
Navi
etc etc dominated NA, isnt it weird that 3D just jumped to source because they got raped? Dunno.

Then we have Fatality, which is like how a "pro gamer" should be. Takes it seriously and practice alot. However, he was dominated in painkiller by voo and others (expect grand finals) and in quake 4 by cooler and a swede. I just feel americans have this laid back attitude and still being cocky. ant it just looks stupid when they loose all the time.


to get some actual numbers in on this: http://www.hltv.org/blog/5446-country-rankings-2000-2011
Senx
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Sweden5901 Posts
October 06 2012 01:31 GMT
#7045
What I learned from asian teams smashing western teams last 2 days:

1. Don't let them have skarner. Actually in general, why give any team skarner? To make an engage happen out of nothing is plain dumb not to mention his speed and tankyness.

2. Be ready to defend your jungle early, so many western have the mindset of "but... aren't we still in laning phase? I dont know what to do, why would they ward my jungle so early? WTF *dies horribly to facechecks*".

3. Individual skill; they're just better. Better mechanics, better gamesense. So much for solo queue grinding I guess?

"trash micro but win - its marine" MC commentary during HSC 4
henrikyo
Profile Joined March 2008
Norway755 Posts
October 06 2012 01:31 GMT
#7046
On October 06 2012 10:26 Slaughter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2012 10:22 henrikyo wrote:
On October 06 2012 10:19 Woony wrote:
On October 06 2012 10:17 overt wrote:
NA worst scene in esports. LoL no exception. Don't expect them to do any better in S3 to be honest.

Still jiji fanboy.

edit:
asian girls fucking hot


let's be honest, FPS games the only thing NA has ever been good at

if you talk about games like quake, painkiller, counter strike etc

they have been dominated by swedes mostly or scandinavia, sk, nip, fnatic. usa doesnt even have a good team anymore.
now its dominated by poland and ukrania.

holland dominated painkiller. etc etc etc. So no, NA havnt dominated fps


They had a period when they won WCG world championships/placed high in most tournies (forget the name of the one team and the game though).

Again, 3D and complexity dominated early before the big teams from europe came and from asia. Then we never saw them again. That is what happening in LoL also. CLG was great 1 year ago, not anymore.
RealQ
Profile Joined March 2011
1120 Posts
October 06 2012 01:31 GMT
#7047
Also. its gonna get worse, this is just the start of Asian domination in lol, the bigger it gets in korea the bigger the gap between
NA/EU and KR is gonna be.
Caphe
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Vietnam10817 Posts
October 06 2012 01:32 GMT
#7048
On October 06 2012 10:24 WhiteDog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2012 10:21 Caphe wrote:
Waje up people that really think TSM got a chance in this tourney. Even after yesterday there are alot of people still put TSM in the top 3 teams lol.
TSM would have been eliminated in group if they were in there. Just look at how bad their top 2 opponents did in group play, you can evaluate TSM's real power from that.

NA is far behind the rest of the world, maybe ahead of South America? if there is any team there. They can't even compete with SEA teams(both SAJ and TPA are in the Garena Pro League, which is one of the few tournies that SEA has)

Are you serious ? They lost a bo3 against Azubu Frost, arguably the best lol team at the moment. You're saying TSM couldn't have beaten clg.na, dignitas, SK, WE, Saigon Jokers ?

See, you still delusional, even after this.
Lets say you take SK out of group A and put TSM in there. Do you really think TSM can beat Frost and iG to get out of group A?
Lets say you take Dig out of group B and put TSM in there. Do you really think TSM can beat Najin and CLG.eu or even Saigon Jokers(given how hard SAJ stomped Dig, I would give SAJ a really good chance of beating TSM).

Imo, NA teams will just stay bad. Why? Because stream soloQ 10 hours a day bring them enough profit to get them going. There are so much tourney that only available to them, so no Korean/Asians team can come and take their prize. They can just stay bad playing each other and make still make money.
Terran
MooMooMugi
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States10531 Posts
October 06 2012 01:33 GMT
#7049
NA < CN < EU < KR
|LoL & SC2 IGN both my username| Just livin' the baylife| Hearthstone ID: MooMooMugi#1544| Dank Memer since 2011
petered
Profile Joined February 2010
United States1817 Posts
October 06 2012 01:33 GMT
#7050
On October 06 2012 10:28 Irave wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2012 10:22 Paraiba wrote:
On October 06 2012 10:20 udgnim wrote:
On October 06 2012 10:17 cvt wrote:
Starcraft community knew that the Koreans would absolutely stomp TSM.

Weird... it's like Koreans are just better at video games..............................


superior mindset and approach


Korean practice.

TSM practices nearly an equal amount as the Koreans. They were one of the first teams to push for a gaming house. They removed a player from the team for not wanting to dedicate an insane amount of practice. People can bag on them for streaming semi frequently. They need to support themselves with the funding from that because of lack of sponsors. Whenever a larger tournament is coming up, they halt their stream sessions. They scrim quite frequently, with other NA/EU teams. They're near the ceiling of what they are allowed to train. Practicing on the Asian serves would be a waste of time, with the ping.

I'm sad that they lost, but don't fault it on practice. Nobody here is surprised that the Koreans have taken over.


Practice doesn't just mean playing and scrimming a lot. It is about a systematic, strategic approach to improving. I see how much they stream solo queue and the results at the tourny speak to that.

Your post makes it sound like you think the Koreans are just inherently better, which is false. They work harder and take it more seriously. If TSM or other NA teams want to be taken more seriously then they need to get more serious about the game.
This, my friends, is the power of the Shikyo Memorial for QQ therapy thread. We make the world a better place, one chainsaw massacre prevention at a time.
CROrens
Profile Joined May 2007
Croatia1005 Posts
October 06 2012 01:33 GMT
#7051
On October 06 2012 10:31 RealQ wrote:
Also. its gonna get worse, this is just the start of Asian domination in lol, the bigger it gets in korea the bigger the gap between
NA/EU and KR is gonna be.


Until it reaches the point where non Korean teams become "foreign" and you got separate tourneys for Korea and the rest of the world. We are witnessing history folks
There is no problem that cannot be solved by the use of high explosives. - Anonymous ......||......Hyuk fan! \o/
henrikyo
Profile Joined March 2008
Norway755 Posts
October 06 2012 01:33 GMT
#7052
On October 06 2012 10:30 Spuick wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2012 10:28 henrikyo wrote:
On October 06 2012 10:24 Slaughter wrote:
On October 06 2012 10:20 scarper65 wrote:
It's fascinating just how bad American teams are in just about every esport.


I wouldn't go so far as to say this.

US teams lack infrastructure and just overall professionalization of their epsorts. Its almost like NA teams are amateurs competing against pros when you look at how the scenes are run. Even then NA has produced several stand out players/teams (and I don't really see how TSM 0-2 vs Frost shows OMG NA SUCKS as the games were NOT stomps). The one game type that was competitive that NA scene "liked" IE FPS they had great success actually.

Again, USA never had great sucess in FPS.

Yes they had some sucess early in CS, but that was mostly due to lack of good teams.
When SK was good, they won everything.
Fnatic
Navi
etc etc dominated NA, isnt it weird that 3D just jumped to source because they got raped? Dunno.

Then we have Fatality, which is like how a "pro gamer" should be. Takes it seriously and practice alot. However, he was dominated in painkiller by voo and others (expect grand finals) and in quake 4 by cooler and a swede. I just feel americans have this laid back attitude and still being cocky. ant it just looks stupid when they loose all the time.


to get some actual numbers in on this: http://www.hltv.org/blog/5446-country-rankings-2000-2011

wow, i didnt know it was that bad. wow.

thanks for that link, interesseting numbers, especially since usa dominated early 2000.
Canucklehead
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada5074 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-06 01:34:27
October 06 2012 01:34 GMT
#7053
Is rapid star really mvp's brother or was that a troll post I read earlier? They do kind of look similar and have same last name, but same last name doesn't mean much in korea.
Top 10 favourite pros: MKP, MVP, MC, Nestea, DRG, Jaedong, Flash, Life, Creator, Leenock
WhiteDog
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France8650 Posts
October 06 2012 01:34 GMT
#7054
On October 06 2012 10:31 RealQ wrote:
Also. its gonna get worse, this is just the start of Asian domination in lol, the bigger it gets in korea the bigger the gap between
NA/EU and KR is gonna be.

The korean scene has been dominant since a long time now, only CLG.NA refused to see that. But M5 and CLG.EU have always been up there, with TSM not so far behind. CLG.EU getting 2nd at OGN, winning Naijin sword and stomping 2-0 frost mean what ?
"every time WhiteDog overuses the word "seriously" in a comment I can make an observation on his fragile emotional state." MoltkeWarding
henrikyo
Profile Joined March 2008
Norway755 Posts
October 06 2012 01:35 GMT
#7055
On October 06 2012 10:33 petered wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2012 10:28 Irave wrote:
On October 06 2012 10:22 Paraiba wrote:
On October 06 2012 10:20 udgnim wrote:
On October 06 2012 10:17 cvt wrote:
Starcraft community knew that the Koreans would absolutely stomp TSM.

Weird... it's like Koreans are just better at video games..............................


superior mindset and approach


Korean practice.

TSM practices nearly an equal amount as the Koreans. They were one of the first teams to push for a gaming house. They removed a player from the team for not wanting to dedicate an insane amount of practice. People can bag on them for streaming semi frequently. They need to support themselves with the funding from that because of lack of sponsors. Whenever a larger tournament is coming up, they halt their stream sessions. They scrim quite frequently, with other NA/EU teams. They're near the ceiling of what they are allowed to train. Practicing on the Asian serves would be a waste of time, with the ping.

I'm sad that they lost, but don't fault it on practice. Nobody here is surprised that the Koreans have taken over.


Practice doesn't just mean playing and scrimming a lot. It is about a systematic, strategic approach to improving. I see how much they stream solo queue and the results at the tourny speak to that.

Your post makes it sound like you think the Koreans are just inherently better, which is false. They work harder and take it more seriously. If TSM or other NA teams want to be taken more seriously then they need to get more serious about the game.

This so much. I agree completly. If NA teams just took it more seriously and played together more, to be better as a team, and understanding each other, and developing new tactics, they would have done better. Instead they are more interessted in streaming solo queue and fucking around
King K. Rool
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada4408 Posts
October 06 2012 01:35 GMT
#7056
? not sure why everyone flames NA teams so hard.

TSM put up a pretty exciting fight.
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20255 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-06 01:37:30
October 06 2012 01:36 GMT
#7057
On October 06 2012 10:32 Caphe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2012 10:24 WhiteDog wrote:
On October 06 2012 10:21 Caphe wrote:
Waje up people that really think TSM got a chance in this tourney. Even after yesterday there are alot of people still put TSM in the top 3 teams lol.
TSM would have been eliminated in group if they were in there. Just look at how bad their top 2 opponents did in group play, you can evaluate TSM's real power from that.

NA is far behind the rest of the world, maybe ahead of South America? if there is any team there. They can't even compete with SEA teams(both SAJ and TPA are in the Garena Pro League, which is one of the few tournies that SEA has)

Are you serious ? They lost a bo3 against Azubu Frost, arguably the best lol team at the moment. You're saying TSM couldn't have beaten clg.na, dignitas, SK, WE, Saigon Jokers ?

See, you still delusional, even after this.
Lets say you take SK out of group A and put TSM in there. Do you really think TSM can beat Frost and iG to get out of group A?
Lets say you take Dig out of group B and put TSM in there. Do you really think TSM can beat Najin and CLG.eu or even Saigon Jokers(given how hard SAJ stomped Dig, I would give SAJ a really good chance of beating TSM).

Imo, NA teams will just stay bad. Why? Because stream soloQ 10 hours a day bring them enough profit to get them going. There are so much tourney that only available to them, so no Korean/Asians team can come and take their prize. They can just stay bad playing each other and make still make money.


Last time TSM played CLGeu they beat them in 2 Bo3s so yea they would of had a shot.
Never Knows Best.
MooMooMugi
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States10531 Posts
October 06 2012 01:36 GMT
#7058
On October 06 2012 10:35 King K. Rool wrote:
? not sure why everyone flames NA teams so hard.

TSM put up a pretty exciting fight.

Because supporting TSM is hipster
|LoL & SC2 IGN both my username| Just livin' the baylife| Hearthstone ID: MooMooMugi#1544| Dank Memer since 2011
Azarkon
Profile Joined January 2010
United States21060 Posts
October 06 2012 01:36 GMT
#7059
I think the results are quite even thus far between the very top EU / NA and Asian teams.

First match: Europe 2-0 China
Second match: Taiwan 2-0 Korea
Third match: Korea 2-0 North America

Relax.
Pathos
Profile Joined April 2003
United States94 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-06 01:37:23
October 06 2012 01:36 GMT
#7060
NA teams got to the top too easily, so it doesn't mean anything to them. They were a joke in season 1 and they will continue to be a joke in season 3, they can still enjoy their stream revenue. They're still going to use all of their remaining power to keep down up and coming NA teams.
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