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Certain topics are blacklisted from Patch Discussion and they include: - "Elo hell"
- The Tribunal
- Bans, either from TL.net or LoL
- "What is a tank" (and other vague monikers)
- Unjustified game theory / speculative discussion about the game
- Champion balance and game design discussion
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United States37500 Posts
Welcome to the Patch Discussion thread for the League of Legends subforum. This thread is for discussion around the most recent patch and gameplay on the live client.
Non-gameplay discussion should go in the General Discussion thread.
Non-League of Legends dicsussion should go in the LiquidLegends Lounge.
Certain topics are blacklisted from Patch Discussion and they include:- "Elo hell"
- The Tribunal
- Bans, either from TL.net or LoL
- "What is a tank" (and other vague monikers)
- Unjustified game theory / speculative discussion about the game
- Champion balance and game design discussion
Additionally, the TL LoL Ten Commandments are available for you to reference if you have any questions about this subforum.
Use the LoL Strategy subforum if you have game or champion specific questions. Lastly, confine QQing and bragging to their respective threads.
There is no new champion this patch.
Patch 5.17: Live on Sept. 2nd, 2015
+ Show Spoiler [Previous GD Threads & Patch Notes] +
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About time they hit Gragas' % damage. That's a nerf that's been needed for a long time now.
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i don't understand how they can claim this nerf doesn't hurt AP Fizz, pretty much all he has going for him in the early game is his level 6 all-in and for that losing the physical damage amplification hurts AP Fizz almost as much as it does bruiser Fizz. and the W change removes the viability of an entire skill order that was probably optimal against any opposing midlaner with enough mobility to dodge his E.
runeglaive jungle Fizz is probably hurt the least from the ult change, but he might be the most reliant on maxing W of all the Fizz versions so he gets punched in the gut as well.
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So the way Azir works now is, only the first soldier hit procs damage, all others hit for 0?
If so, maybe it's a good thing Fenix didn't make it to worlds.
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I wonder if this is the patch people will finally remember Jax exists after being buffed over and over.
I think he's in a similar situation as Karthus. Builds on him are so fucking outdated. Why're people insistent on BotRK even still? How is Sterak's never being built? It's so optimistic to think you can build two full damage items and not die horribly as a melee, especially in a meta dominated by non-AA damage. Free resists, not actually that great if you have 1.8k health before you finish your third item, and, if you need it, you'll get BotRK before full build anyway.
On September 02 2015 10:24 BrownBear wrote:
So the way Azir works now is, only the first soldier hit procs damage, all others hit for 0?
If so, maybe it's a good thing Fenix didn't make it to worlds.
Only on Q, is how I read it. Not AAs.
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On September 02 2015 10:25 Caiada wrote:I wonder if this is the patch people will finally remember Jax exists after being buffed over and over. I think he's in a similar situation as Karthus. Builds on him are so fucking outdated. Why're people insistent on BotRK even still? How is Sterak's never being built? It's so optimistic to think you can build two full damage items and not die horribly as a melee, especially in a meta dominated by non-AA damage. Free resists, not actually that great if you have 1.8k health before you finish your third item, and, if you need it, you'll get BotRK before full build anyway. Show nested quote +On September 02 2015 10:24 BrownBear wrote:
So the way Azir works now is, only the first soldier hit procs damage, all others hit for 0?
If so, maybe it's a good thing Fenix didn't make it to worlds. Only on Q, is how I read it. Not AAs.
Has steraks seen pro play yet? I've been playing tons of jax, as usual, and its pretty good.
Edit: One problem with it is Steraks has slot efficiency that doesn't really line up with what a Jax-type character really wants. Still, my buildpaths have consistently been more defensive early than pros. I used to go TF>GA then TF>Warmogs, recently TF>FrozenHeart.
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On September 02 2015 10:30 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2015 10:25 Caiada wrote:I wonder if this is the patch people will finally remember Jax exists after being buffed over and over. I think he's in a similar situation as Karthus. Builds on him are so fucking outdated. Why're people insistent on BotRK even still? How is Sterak's never being built? It's so optimistic to think you can build two full damage items and not die horribly as a melee, especially in a meta dominated by non-AA damage. Free resists, not actually that great if you have 1.8k health before you finish your third item, and, if you need it, you'll get BotRK before full build anyway. On September 02 2015 10:24 BrownBear wrote:
So the way Azir works now is, only the first soldier hit procs damage, all others hit for 0?
If so, maybe it's a good thing Fenix didn't make it to worlds. Only on Q, is how I read it. Not AAs. Has steraks seen pro play yet? I've been playing tons of jax, as usual, and its pretty good. Edit: One problem with it is Steraks has slot efficiency that doesn't really line up with what a Jax-type character really wants. Still, my buildpaths have consistently been more defensive early than pros. I used to go TF>GA then TF>Warmogs, recently TF>FrozenHeart.
i doubt it will see any use, the shield decay is so fast regular folks will randomly play around it due to cooldowns. with pro team coordination it might as well not exist.
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Hey guys, a request.
Since Lux got buffed and AP items got changed, there's a couple new/different build orders on the Lux guide thread. One was actually Velociraptures idea and it seems pretty neat. I want to test this stuff but I can't because Thailand.
If you guys try out Lux post buff, can you try to use the updated build orders and post talking about it either in the Lux thread or here, and post a post game screen for me?
It'd be much appreciated.
Here's a cross post of the updated build orders. I'm especially looking for feedback in regards to the Ludens Echo and Support build orders:
+ Show Spoiler +So, given all of the math we did in the previous page of the thread, here is, as simplistic as I can make it, current Lux guide build suggestions for 5.16: WHICH BUILD DO I USE?+ Show Spoiler +Up against an AP Assassin who can engage on you and force fights, such as Leblanc, Fizz, Kassadin, Akali, Diana, Ekko, Katarina, Lissandra?
- Use the Athenes Build.
Up against a Ranged AP poke Mage with skillshots such as Orianna, Ziggs, Xerath, Viktor, Azir?
- Use the Athenes build if you prefer a more aggressive early game playstyle with a stronger 1 item timing.
- Use the Ludens build if you prefer a more passive early game playstyle with a stronger 2-3 item timing.
(By 4 items, these two builds are functionally the same.)
Up against a champion who you cannot pressure in lane and need to prioritize waveclear such as Morgana, Galio, Twisted Fate, Cho'Gath, Master Yi?
- Use the Ludens build.
Up against an AD Champion?
- Use the Armguard build.
Want to play Lux support?
- Use the Support build. ![[image loading]](http://www.liquidlegends.net/images/lol/items/8.image) ATHENES BUILD Pregame: + Show Spoiler +Want something more aggressive early game with a weaker late game? - 21/0/9 - ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/q1Pdq.png) Hybrid Pen / ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/b0Cl5.png) Armor / ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/dyS4h.png) MR / ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bdrvl.png) AP - Barrier vs. Assassins, Heal vs. Ranged Mages, Ignite vs. Fiddlesticks & Swain. Want something more passive early game with a stronger late game? - 21/9/0 - Hybrid Pen / Armor / CDR per Level / AP - Barrier vs. Assassins, Heal vs. Ranged Mages, Teleport vs. Heimerdinger Want mid game defense against an Akali/Kassadin/Diana? - 21/9/0 - Hybrid Pen / HP per Level / MR per Level / AP - Barrier vs. Akali/Diana, Heal vs. Kassadin Enemy team has a regen champion like Vlad/Mundo and know you need to buy a Morellonomicon later in the game? - Same as above, but take AP per Level runes instead of CDR per Level for a late game setup, since you will be capping CDR with Athenes+Morello late in the game. Items: + Show Spoiler +
Starting Items
- 1-2x Dring (preference)
- 1st item Athenes
- Sorc Shoes whenever appropriate
Core
- 1st item Athenes
- 2nd item Void Staff
- 3rd item Deathcap
- You can get Mejais after Chalice here if you're super fed.
Final Items (Choose either 2 Offensive or 1 Offensive 1 Defensive)
Offensive
- Ludens Echo (For Poke Damage)
- Liandry's Torment (For Teamfight Damage)
- Zhonya's Hourglass (Hybrid Offense/Defense)
- Morellonomicon (Enemy team has a regen champion like Vlad/Mundo)
Defensive
- Randuins Omen (vs. AD)
- Banshee's Veil (vs. AP)
- Locket/Banner (team has no MR aura item)
![[image loading]](http://www.liquidlegends.net/images/lol/items/3.image) LUDENS BUILD Pregame: + Show Spoiler + - 24/0/6 (use for a stronger late game) - 21/0/9 (use for a stronger early game) - Mpen / MRegen per Level / CDR per Level / AP - Heal standard, Teleport vs. Morgana, TF, Galio, Cho'Gath, Master Yi Items: + Show Spoiler +
Starting Items
- 1-2x Dring (preference)
- 1st item Ludens Echo
- You can get Mejais here at basically any time if you're super fed.
Core
- 1st Ludens Echo
- 2nd Deathcap (for farming) or Void+Sorc Shoes (for teamfights)
- Sorc Shoes when appropriate (can be delayed in this build)
- 3rd Morellonomicon / Athenes (Morello more offensive, Athenes more defensive)
- 4th Finish Deathcap+Void
Final Item
- Liandry's Torment (Offensive)
- Zhonya's Hourglass (Defense vs. Armor)
- Banshee's Veil (Defense vs. Magic)
- Locket/Banner (team has no MR aura item)
![[image loading]](http://www.liquidlegends.net/images/lol/items/180.image) ARMGUARD BUILD Pregame: + Show Spoiler + - 21/9/0 - Hybrid Pen / Armor / MRegen / AP - Heal vs. Ranged ADs, Barrier vs. Assassins, Exhaust vs. Zed/Yasuo Items: + Show Spoiler +
Starting Items
- 2x Dring
- Armguard
- You can get Mejais here if you're super fed, but it's risky to get it before 2x Doran + Armguard.
Core
- 1st Morellonomicon
- 2nd Void Staff
- Sorc Shoes when appropriate
- 3rd/4th Deathcap + finish Zhonya in either order.
Final Item
- Ludens Echo (for Poke Damage)
- Liandry's Torment (for Teamfight Damage)
- Frozen Heart (for Defense vs. Armor)
- Banshee's Veil (for Defense vs. MR)
- Locket/Banner (team has no MR aura item)
![[image loading]](http://www.liquidlegends.net/images/lol/items/183.image) SUPPORT BUILD Pregame: + Show Spoiler + - 9/0/21 - Hybrid Pen / Armor / MR / AP - Exhaust Skill Order: Q>E>W and then either R>Q>E>W (offensive) or R>Q>W>E (defensive) Items: + Show Spoiler +
Starting Items
- Frostfang
- Sightstone
Core
- Frostfang
- Sightstone
- Forbidden Idol
- Sorc Shoes
Mana Regen Item (Pick one, get first)
- Morellonomicon
- Ardent Censer
- Mikhaels Crucible
- Don't upgrade Frostfang to FQC until you finish your mana regen item. After that you can upgrade to FQC based on preference.
CDR Item (Pick one unless you have Morello)
- Banner of Command
- Locket of the Iron Solari
- Twin Shadows
- Zeke's Harbinger
- Late game you can sell FQC for a second CDR item, but you should go to 6 items before doing this.
Damage Item (Pick one if no Morello. Pick two if Morello)
- Void Staff (Highest damage)
- Ludens Echo
- Liandry's Torment
- Zhonya's Hourglass
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Wow, Zeke's gave 250 health? Weird bug.
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Because Zeke's Herald gave 250 health and 20% CDR, so 250 health and 10% CDR more than current Zeke's Harbinger... yup.
Jax isn't a teamfighter, he's a splitpusher and clean-up crew in fights basically. You have better than him if you just want somebody jumping in with burst then tanking it out, so if you're gonna go triforce into full tank there are generally better champs than him. BotRK's active is great for killing people before they reach tower/diving, but also running away if they come to get you, or in teamfights to stick to your target after the first rotation of peeling abilities. The AS he needs to push, because he has no waveclear at all and his passive takes time to build up and drops very fast.
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On September 02 2015 10:30 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2015 10:25 Caiada wrote:I wonder if this is the patch people will finally remember Jax exists after being buffed over and over. I think he's in a similar situation as Karthus. Builds on him are so fucking outdated. Why're people insistent on BotRK even still? How is Sterak's never being built? It's so optimistic to think you can build two full damage items and not die horribly as a melee, especially in a meta dominated by non-AA damage. Free resists, not actually that great if you have 1.8k health before you finish your third item, and, if you need it, you'll get BotRK before full build anyway. On September 02 2015 10:24 BrownBear wrote:
So the way Azir works now is, only the first soldier hit procs damage, all others hit for 0?
If so, maybe it's a good thing Fenix didn't make it to worlds. Only on Q, is how I read it. Not AAs. Has steraks seen pro play yet? I've been playing tons of jax, as usual, and its pretty good. Edit: One problem with it is Steraks has slot efficiency that doesn't really line up with what a Jax-type character really wants. Still, my buildpaths have consistently been more defensive early than pros. I used to go TF>GA then TF>Warmogs, recently TF>FrozenHeart.
We haven't seen pro play on Juggernauts patch iirc.
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Zeke's didn't give the extra CDR like that thread thought, only the health. Still hilarious.
I'm still reasonably sure Sterak's will see use. The stats are very efficient on anybody going Tforce, and playing around the shield isn't really that simple. It also means you're ignoring a champ that is potentially a big damage threat to your team, champs, who, like Jax, previously had a lot less teamfight threat.
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On September 02 2015 12:30 krndandaman wrote:
jeez draven is like ultimate snowball champion now as if he wasn't already
it really doesn't matter at all lol. Assuming you don't drop a single axe in the first 10 minutes and you get the average 80(being generous even) cs you will get 72 gold lol.
I don't understand why sterak's has such a high combine cost when they have been trying to remove that for a while now.
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Honestly don't really see how they change him without making him broken like he was in s3. Especially right now with how hypercarries+a lot of peel is popular he just can't really compete damage wise with them. His biggest problem is just the typical popular champs shit on him pretty hard.
This way at least he feels a bit unique.
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Australia18228 Posts
On September 02 2015 13:36 Ketara wrote:
Hey guys, a request.
Since Lux got buffed and AP items got changed, there's a couple new/different build orders on the Lux guide thread. One was actually Velociraptures idea and it seems pretty neat. I want to test this stuff but I can't because Thailand.
If you guys try out Lux post buff, can you try to use the updated build orders and post talking about it either in the Lux thread or here, and post a post game screen for me?
It'd be much appreciated.
Here's a cross post of the updated build orders. I'm especially looking for feedback in regards to the Ludens Echo and Support build orders:
Regarding the Ludens build, why not go for CDR boots after Ludens?
You're delaying both sorc boots + athene/nomicon, might be better to allin on waveclear with CDR boots and go for Dcap -> Void (or vice versa)
Also frees up room for Zhonyas/Liandries to make up for loss mpen
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Because CDR boots are terrible.
You can look at the Lux thread if you want to see a lot of math and theorycrafting on the subject. I don't want to clutter this thread with it, but basically Lucidity Boots over Sorc Shoes are never worth.
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In general Sorc boots are insanely efficient on champs with high base and especially anyone who is making strong use of Liandry's or Luden's. And the safer your champ is, the more likely you can just get the CDR from runes. I only like CDR boots on AD champs (in situations where treads aren't good, more than you'd think.)
Champs who want mpen usually want more mpen for the same reason they got it in the first place.
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The point of cdr boots is to not get athene/morelo and still have high cdr. They aren't terrible.
Also wonder if riot will ever fix creep target priority. Would be a really welcome change.
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EPT
