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[Patch 5.17] League of Draven Patch Discussion - Page 12

Forum Index > LoL Strategy
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Certain topics are blacklisted from Patch Discussion and they include:
  • "Elo hell"
  • The Tribunal
  • Bans, either from TL.net or LoL
  • "What is a tank" (and other vague monikers)
  • Unjustified game theory / speculative discussion about the game
  • Champion balance and game design discussion
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
September 13 2015 20:16 GMT
#221
can you elaborate? I don't see why shyvanas kit is best suited to build more damgae than tank items. I'd argue the opposite wit the high base damages low mobility you know
Frolossus
Profile Joined February 2010
United States4779 Posts
September 13 2015 20:28 GMT
#222
On September 14 2015 05:16 Slayer91 wrote:
can you elaborate? I don't see why shyvanas kit is best suited to build more damgae than tank items. I'd argue the opposite wit the high base damages low mobility you know


so her W, E and Q all give her extremely fast jungle clearing ability. this naturally gives her more gold to work with than junglers like lee sin or gragas. she also gets 40 free MR and armor in dragon form. this means that for defensive stats you want slightly more health than resists. which makes deadmans OR randuins and cleaver perfect items for her.
the magic resist thing has been beaten to death already but i think that maw > the other stuff because of the damage.
if you have a ton of gold and are naturally tanky this means that you are best suited to get more damage. especially provided that you have limited CC and other ways to make yourself a threat.


and i still don't understand this concept that shyv is a low mobility champion. yes she doesn't have a low cool down dash, but she has one very long range one and 50% bonus movespeed from burnout. move speed quints + phage = out running everything.
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
September 13 2015 20:30 GMT
#223
Well when you play vs good players who cancel it and just slow you and run away you will understand.
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
September 13 2015 20:32 GMT
#224
On September 14 2015 05:28 Frolossus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2015 05:16 Slayer91 wrote:
can you elaborate? I don't see why shyvanas kit is best suited to build more damgae than tank items. I'd argue the opposite wit the high base damages low mobility you know


so her W, E and Q all give her extremely fast jungle clearing ability. this naturally gives her more gold to work with than junglers like lee sin or gragas. she also gets 40 free MR and armor in dragon form. this means that for defensive stats you want slightly more health than resists. which makes deadmans OR randuins and cleaver perfect items for her.
the magic resist thing has been beaten to death already but i think that maw > the other stuff because of the damage.
if you have a ton of gold and are naturally tanky this means that you are best suited to get more damage. especially provided that you have limited CC and other ways to make yourself a threat.


and i still don't understand this concept that shyv is a low mobility champion. yes she doesn't have a low cool down dash, but she has one very long range one and 50% bonus movespeed from burnout. move speed quints + phage = out running everything.


having more gold doesn't necessarily mean you want to spend it on damage, a shyvana with sated devourer can kill an adc in a few seconds anyway if she gets in range for long enough to do it.
Frolossus
Profile Joined February 2010
United States4779 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-13 20:36:29
September 13 2015 20:33 GMT
#225
On September 14 2015 05:30 nafta wrote:
Well when you play vs good players who cancel it and just slow you and run away you will understand.

if you're getting your ult canceled, then you are using it incorrectly.
it works kind similarly to trist jump and hec ult. this means that you can be in the animation while being CC'd and it you only get stunned or whatever for a little bit after the dash part. you still get the knock back and damage from the dash to connect despite being CC'd

On September 14 2015 05:33 Fildun wrote:
The Shyvanas in my game also don't have that much more gold than the average jungler, sure they might farm a bit more but the opposing junglers usually has a couple kill/assists more.


that means they aren't farming enough. shyv should be matching or exceeding the ADC in gold
Fildun
Profile Joined December 2012
Netherlands4122 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-13 20:36:20
September 13 2015 20:33 GMT
#226
The Shyvanas in my game also don't have that much more gold than the average jungler, sure they might farm a bit more but the opposing junglers usually has a couple kill/assists more.

On September 14 2015 05:33 Frolossus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2015 05:30 nafta wrote:
Well when you play vs good players who cancel it and just slow you and run away you will understand.

if you're getting your ult canceled, then you are using it incorrectly.
it works kind similarly to trist jump and hec ult. this means that you can be in the animation while being CC'd and it you only get stunned or whatever for a little bit after the dash part. you still get the knock back and damage from the dash to connect despite being CC'd


Either you ult in and get CC'd or you don't ult in and are useless. That's basically the scenarios I see in my games, I've never seen a Shyvana be useful in teamfights and they aren't that good at splitting either, mostly because they don't have TP and teams don't know how to play with splitpushers.
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-13 20:41:19
September 13 2015 20:40 GMT
#227
On September 14 2015 05:33 Frolossus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2015 05:30 nafta wrote:
Well when you play vs good players who cancel it and just slow you and run away you will understand.

if you're getting your ult canceled, then you are using it incorrectly.
it works kind similarly to trist jump and hec ult. this means that you can be in the animation while being CC'd and it you only get stunned or whatever for a little bit after the dash part. you still get the knock back and damage from the dash to connect despite being CC'd

Show nested quote +
On September 14 2015 05:33 Fildun wrote:
The Shyvanas in my game also don't have that much more gold than the average jungler, sure they might farm a bit more but the opposing junglers usually has a couple kill/assists more.


that means they aren't farming enough. shyv should be matching or exceeding the ADC in gold

I know how cc works doesn't change the fact that most popular champs have a way of interrupting it.

When I open champion.gg 9 out of the 10 most played champs have at least 1 way to interrupt your jump.

Also when you are ccd and cant keep autoing your w goes on cd and then you just kited. Like I have seen so many shyvanas try what you are explaining here and it never works. Not even exclusive to this season only.
Caiada
Profile Joined January 2015
United States3052 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-13 20:46:54
September 13 2015 20:44 GMT
#228
More gold usually means you should buy more efficient items. Shit like Cleaver/Titanic/Maw. Hybrid items in general offer more gold value, and a lot more of them exist than ever before. If you're 1.5k gold ahead, and they're already having trouble killing you, Shyv's an AD champ who gets a ton of value out of Aspd (particularly with Devourer) and AD and can easily stay in range long enough to get a lot of value if you get DMP. And you have free resists. Or just kill tanks, in which case bruiser items>tank items when you're Shyv because lol %health devourer mixed damage BotRK.

Shyv is a teamfight champion. There's no point to all that farming if you're just splitting and not defending skirmishes and taking objectives.
XDG Mata
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
September 13 2015 20:46 GMT
#229
My experience with Shyv jungle is that it's easy to get some early lead but if you don't win off that you just feel absolutely useless in teamfights.
101toss
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
3232 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-13 22:29:25
September 13 2015 22:28 GMT
#230
are people actually trying to say shyvana has teamfighting ability LOL

"tryndamere can spin in and hit the adc 4 times for the kill"
Math doesn't kill champions and neither do wards
Caiada
Profile Joined January 2015
United States3052 Posts
September 13 2015 22:40 GMT
#231
Valuable insight.
XDG Mata
Frolossus
Profile Joined February 2010
United States4779 Posts
September 13 2015 22:42 GMT
#232
On September 14 2015 07:28 101toss wrote:
are people actually trying to say shyvana has teamfighting ability LOL

"tryndamere can spin in and hit the adc 4 times for the kill"

clearly you haven't played the character before.
shes like jax but can actually farm quickly
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-13 22:45:27
September 13 2015 22:44 GMT
#233
Not sure Jax is really the best comparison.

She's like Garen, maybe.

What league is Frolossus, I am curious.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
Caiada
Profile Joined January 2015
United States3052 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-13 22:49:46
September 13 2015 22:49 GMT
#234
Jax is close, kinda-sorta. Maybe like a mid-game Jax trading scaling for base and earlier better spikes.

I honestly think almost no one knows what a teamfight that is not dominated by ADCs looks like.
XDG Mata
Frolossus
Profile Joined February 2010
United States4779 Posts
September 13 2015 22:51 GMT
#235
On September 14 2015 07:44 Ketara wrote:
Not sure Jax is really the best comparison.

She's like Garen, maybe.

What league is Frolossus, I am curious.

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

i don't know how well post rework garen scales into late game. i think jax is about the best comparison i can make. you get lots of free tank stats and scale really hard into the end game. you're good at killing carries and being a very high damage threat.
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
September 13 2015 22:55 GMT
#236
But Jax scales a lot better than Shyvana and Shyvana has a much better early game.

Jax also has more gapclosers and more CC.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
Frolossus
Profile Joined February 2010
United States4779 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-13 23:02:50
September 13 2015 22:58 GMT
#237
On September 14 2015 07:55 Ketara wrote:
But Jax scales a lot better than Shyvana and Shyvana has a much better early game.

Jax also has more gapclosers and more CC.

jungle shyv low levels are terrible. her kit is designed to get her ahead by ~30 minutes then from that point you just kill things and win
i said they are similar, both have crazy good lategame scaling and probably team fight/play late game very similarly.

it's like you aren't going in to CC everything and tank a lot of damage, you have so-so burst, but you go in to threaten and kill the enemy's carries
Caiada
Profile Joined January 2015
United States3052 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-13 23:04:01
September 13 2015 23:03 GMT
#238
I mean, there's differences, but how you're playing is pretty similar. You're starting fights jumping in and chunking somebody, you're a lot better if you get a lot of attacks off. Fights are a lot nicer if they're 3v3 instead of 5v5 or if you're not the focus.

Jax has more tools but needs more items. Shyvana also comes out of the jungle which is a perk of its own that isn't really considered right now because I consider Jungle Jax really meh.

I don't think Shyv's lategame is anything compared to Jax's.
XDG Mata
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
September 13 2015 23:05 GMT
#239
Yeah a 6 item Jax is soooooooooo much better than a 6 item Shyvana.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
Frolossus
Profile Joined February 2010
United States4779 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-13 23:16:14
September 13 2015 23:10 GMT
#240
On September 14 2015 08:05 Ketara wrote:
Yeah a 6 item Jax is soooooooooo much better than a 6 item Shyvana.

yeah, but they fill the same role on a team in the late game, which is what you are playing for on shyv. i don't know if there is a term for this class of character or not, it's like a bruiser that scales into late game/better with gold.

irelia might be another comparison but she can get more defensive items because she gets lots of free true damage.
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