EPTWhy does Locket still exist.
[Patch 5.17] League of Draven Patch Discussion - Page 11
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Caiada
United States3052 Posts
Why does Locket still exist. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Comparing the Maw shield to the Locket shield is unfair. Maw is extremely cost efficient in a best case scenario. 400 HP, 40 MR, and an "average" of 85 AD all for 3200g is ridiculously strong. But the thing about Maw is that you're not always going to get a best case scenario. The best case scenario is conditional on the assumption that you're getting burst below 30% HP and taking lots of magic damage. There are enemy team comps where it'll be more likely than others, but even against double AP it's very possible that their two APs will focus your team, you'll be fighting their ADC+Support, and you'll get no value from the shield. The Locket shield should be giving you full value in essentially 100% of situations. I'm not saying that Maw is bad mind, just that doing a straight up comparison between the two items is unfair. Maw has to be compared in the context of the individual situation in which it is present. But yes, why does Locket still exist. Even after the defensive item changes which slightly nerfed Locket and slightly buffed SV/Banshee, it's still the best MR item in the game, and is a totally reasonable buy even in "selfish" scenarios. PS: I could make a long post about how in general Banshee's Veil is better than Spirit Visage too, but that would be conditional on you not needing the CDR. Basically your pure defensive MR item flowchart is like this. 1 - Does your team need MR aura? Yes - Locket No - Go to 2 2 - Do you have crazy heals and sustain built into your kit (Vlad, Mundo, Warwick etc) Yes - Visage No - Go to 3 3 - Do you need CDR? Yes - Locket No - Banshee | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
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Caiada
United States3052 Posts
Side note/locket whine: 2 seconds for Locket shield is probably too long. Really ought to just fall off quickly over the duration like Sterak's. Actually, every primarily reactive shield should to reward actually being reactive and not trivial prep work, but that's a different discussion/thread maybe. At least all the additional mixed items gave us a lot more choices for damage, even if the pure tank choices are more clear-cut than they have been this whole season. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
When you are getting ideal value out of the spellshield it's invaluable. It just depends on how much you need the Locket CDR, really. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35144 Posts
On September 13 2015 10:35 Ketara wrote: The Locket shield should be rated highly. It should be rated even higher since it was changed. Comparing the Maw shield to the Locket shield is unfair. Maw is extremely cost efficient in a best case scenario. 400 HP, 40 MR, and an "average" of 85 AD all for 3200g is ridiculously strong. But the thing about Maw is that you're not always going to get a best case scenario. The best case scenario is conditional on the assumption that you're getting burst below 30% HP and taking lots of magic damage. There are enemy team comps where it'll be more likely than others, but even against double AP it's very possible that their two APs will focus your team, you'll be fighting their ADC+Support, and you'll get no value from the shield. The Locket shield should be giving you full value in essentially 100% of situations. I'm not saying that Maw is bad mind, just that doing a straight up comparison between the two items is unfair. Maw has to be compared in the context of the individual situation in which it is present. But yes, why does Locket still exist. Even after the defensive item changes which slightly nerfed Locket and slightly buffed SV/Banshee, it's still the best MR item in the game, and is a totally reasonable buy even in "selfish" scenarios. PS: I could make a long post about how in general Banshee's Veil is better than Spirit Visage too, but that would be conditional on you not needing the CDR. Basically your pure defensive MR item flowchart is like this. 1 - Does your team need MR aura? Yes - Locket No - Go to 2 2 - Do you have crazy heals and sustain built into your kit (Vlad, Mundo, Warwick etc) Yes - Visage No - Go to 3 3 - Do you need CDR? Yes - Locket No - Banshee The Legion aura change wasn't done to make Locket bad, it was to make Aegis less strong since now it "only" negates sorc boots pen instead of doing that and then some. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
It put more of the power into the active which has 600 range, and less of the power into the aura which is 1100 range. I'm not saying it was a bad change, I liked the change. I just think it maybe didn't go quite far enough. But that's tangential balance discussion, not really practical conversation. | ||
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Caiada
United States3052 Posts
And IE/single-item crit too, but that is another story. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On September 13 2015 09:25 Frolossus wrote: shyv is extremely mobile wtf she has a massive dash that can counteract some forms of CC and one of the highest movespeeds with her W on. in fact the reasons for which you pick shyv is that she exerts tons of map pressure from running around and clearing fast with W. she also happens to be one of the hardest scaling melee characters in the game right now which makes her an exceptional duelist. if you're far ahead you don't need any more tank items. there's this weird relationship in the game where if you have a level and item advantage and your damage > their damage you can get away on 1.5-2 tank items. the problem with team fights at the end of the game for shyv is never going to be that you aren't tanky enough. it's that you/your team is incapable of killing their biggest damage threats before they kill yours. if this happens then you either pick better fights or lose the game. shyv tends to be a very snowbally character. if she gets ahead you can choke out the enemy jungler and 3 hit carries. the hardest part of playing the character is knowing when to fight and how to maximize your damage. her w isn't that great for mobility if you don't auto to keep it going. her dash is an ultimate ability and its slow moving and easy to juke. it's not bad but if you want to escape from a 3-4-5 man gank it's nothing compared to udyr e or something. I can rephrase the next paragraph "there's this weird relationship in the game where if your gold>their gold you'll probably win regardless of build" "the problem is never going to be that you're not tanky enough" right. so you've never lost a teamfight because you didn't die. you only lost a teamfight because the enemy team killed your team. your teams fault in the end i got you. honestly it just sounds like you're on a winstreak and thinking about how easy the game is when you get ahead why even talk about builds we win the game anyway lelelele how about your team is losing and their team is controlling the jungle and pushing mid you have only 2 or 3 items how do you win the game. | ||
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brokenwatch
Azerbaijan99 Posts
User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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AlterKot
Poland7525 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
On September 13 2015 19:02 Slayer91 wrote: her w isn't that great for mobility if you don't auto to keep it going. her dash is an ultimate ability and its slow moving and easy to juke. it's not bad but if you want to escape from a 3-4-5 man gank it's nothing compared to udyr e or something. I can rephrase the next paragraph "there's this weird relationship in the game where if your gold>their gold you'll probably win regardless of build" "the problem is never going to be that you're not tanky enough" right. so you've never lost a teamfight because you didn't die. you only lost a teamfight because the enemy team killed your team. your teams fault in the end i got you. honestly it just sounds like you're on a winstreak and thinking about how easy the game is when you get ahead why even talk about builds we win the game anyway lelelele how about your team is losing and their team is controlling the jungle and pushing mid you have only 2 or 3 items how do you win the game. how am i blaming my team in any way? you watch the mini map, starve their jungler and counter gank to get yourself more ahead. if you are losing teamfights you could've played better to win it. you're gonna be 3 hitting carries. damage > tank stats on late game shyv. the happy middle ground between glass cannon and full tank has been right around deadmans/randuins + maw. if i die during a teamfight then i picked a bad engage or didn't kill the right person. as the jungler if you are losing the mid game then you could've done a lot more to make it so you weren't losing in the first place | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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Caiada
United States3052 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
You should generally choose the build that helps you win in as many situations as possible and the important ones are the ones where you're close to equal all the way down to losing and possible comeback. It's quite naive to say something like if I die it was a bad engage when that may be true it may also be true that if you changed your build you could have won now its extremely unlikely that the one build with heavy damage on a melee is the best one and if it is its even more unlikely that its the best one for all situations. | ||
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
On September 14 2015 05:03 Slayer91 wrote: My point is he's just making the assumption that you're ahead enough to win regardless of build more or less and then advising full damage so you can kill people faster and thus win faster. You should generally choose the build that helps you win in as many situations as possible and the important ones are the ones where you're close to equal all the way down to losing and possible comeback. It's quite naive to say something like if I die it was a bad engage when that may be true it may also be true that if you changed your build you could have won now its extremely unlikely that the one build with heavy damage on a melee is the best one and if it is its even more unlikely that its the best one for all situations. shyv's design is best suited to build more damage than tank items and resists. play to her strengths not her weaknesses and you win more | ||
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