EPTIrelia is a bad champion. Like if you diluted Jax and a generic assassin. Can't be a point of comparison. Compare Shyv/Jax to each other or to Garen or Fiora or other melee dps. Maybe Gnar.
[Patch 5.17] League of Draven Patch Discussion - Page 13
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Caiada
United States3052 Posts
Irelia is a bad champion. Like if you diluted Jax and a generic assassin. Can't be a point of comparison. Compare Shyv/Jax to each other or to Garen or Fiora or other melee dps. Maybe Gnar. | ||
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
if you build too tanky you run into these issues where your shyvs aren't doing anything meaningful in the late game. i think it's better to try and cut defensive stats and compensate with how you play then it is to buy more tank stats and be incapable of doing enough damage when you need it. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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KissBlade
United States5718 Posts
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Fildun
Netherlands4122 Posts
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
On September 14 2015 17:22 Fildun wrote: But how are you ever gonna close the gap to their carries with just your ult? If that's the case the enemy team is doing something horribly wrong. ? Shyv's ultimate is pretty long range for an immediate gap closer. I mean, if you see it coming in advance, a carry can stay away from the knockup, but combined with her W MS, she can get to the backline reasonably well. Shyvanna generally two-three shots an ADC pretty damn fast with Frolo's build. What's Frolo's build? I skimmed the last few pages and couldn't find it. | ||
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Fildun
Netherlands4122 Posts
On September 14 2015 17:33 DarkCore wrote: ? Shyv's ultimate is pretty long range for an immediate gap closer. I mean, if you see it coming in advance, a carry can stay away from the knockup, but combined with her W MS, she can get to the backline reasonably well. What's Frolo's build? I skimmed the last few pages and couldn't find it. Your ult is basically Flash range, especially because they can run away while you're in the animation. That's often not enough to get to their carries. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Jungle iten BotRK Randuin / DMP Locket Black Cleaver Does that seem like a correct Shyvana jungle build? Or is that doing it wrong. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35144 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
She's certainly not getting CDR anywhere else. | ||
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Prog
United Kingdom1470 Posts
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Caiada
United States3052 Posts
Cleaver is great because CDR/Health/AD/movespeed is her ideal item, but it's replaceable with Thornmail/Warmog's/Hydra depending on how the game is going and what you're doing. You can also do ridiculous things like Cinderhulk/Titanic/Mallet if you're going to have to be tanky, but I wouldn't call it ideal. | ||
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
On September 14 2015 17:33 DarkCore wrote: ? Shyv's ultimate is pretty long range for an immediate gap closer. I mean, if you see it coming in advance, a carry can stay away from the knockup, but combined with her W MS, she can get to the backline reasonably well. What's Frolo's build? I skimmed the last few pages and couldn't find it. devourer->tabi->botrk->deadmans->maw->cleaver On September 14 2015 19:55 Gahlo wrote: Does Shyv really want BC? Less than half her damage is physical. you want the phage component as well as the health and CDR | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On September 15 2015 02:11 VayneAuthority wrote: how the hell do people see shyvana as a back line diver? she was basically tailor made to destroy bruisers that are attacking YOUR backline. She has limited CC and would get kited to shit, and she has percent health damage. Its the same reason diving as nasus is a terrible idea and i would never pick nasus if they dont have some sort of AA based bruiser like jax/irelia/warwick/fiora/etc Because that is a niche that isn't real. If you win like that, you are way ahead, or the enemy is making poor engages (diving as Nasus). | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
On September 15 2015 02:28 cLutZ wrote: Because that is a niche that isn't real. If you win like that, you are way ahead, or the enemy is making poor engages (diving as Nasus). well as you can tell from this thread the majority of bruiser players play like retards so it is actually a very real niche. Even pros can be seen stupidly tunnelling the backline often on champs that will never accomplish anything doing so. The only situation its not a niche in is if your team cannot be peeled for, say graves adc and talon mid. there is nothing to protect anyway so you just dive with the rest of your team and hope CC gets used elsewhere. This is actually most likely the situation where you want to build tankier and just soak damage and build disruption items like randuins. Otherwise in the first scenario id be leaning toward more dmg since you wont be the one focused. | ||
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KissBlade
United States5718 Posts
On September 14 2015 17:41 Fildun wrote: Your ult is basically Flash range, especially because they can run away while you're in the animation. That's often not enough to get to their carries. If by "basically Flash range", you mean over twice the range of Flash. Have you even played Shyvanna recently? In a team fight, Shyvanna can cover quite a bit of distance between her R and W. | ||
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
On September 15 2015 02:28 cLutZ wrote: Because that is a niche that isn't real. If you win like that, you are way ahead, or the enemy is making poor engages (diving as Nasus). this is the whole thing though. you play shyv to get yourself ahead. you SHOULD be ahead if you are playing her properly. as a result this way of playing is the most optimal. you want the enemy to try and peel you to the best of their ability. you're either gonna win the fight outright or they are gonna have to use everything to stop you and you are still gonna chunk everything down which leaves your team to clean up. like, what i'm trying to explain is how to get the most use out of the character. if you do anything less you end up with all these shyv players that don't have much impact on the game. | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
On September 15 2015 03:03 Frolossus wrote: this is the whole thing though. you play shyv to get yourself ahead. you SHOULD be ahead if you are playing her properly. as a result this way of playing is the most optimal. you want the enemy to try and peel you to the best of their ability. you're either gonna win the fight outright or they are gonna have to use everything to stop you and you are still gonna chunk everything down which leaves your team to clean up. are you the type of player that says WTF WHOLE TEAM ON ME HOW WE LOSE !!!1 after fights? because in that situation the enemy team just kites you back while your carries do no damage since they are out of range and you accomplish absolutely nothing. I see this a lot at diamond which is infuriating to watch when you get the typical riven/irelia/etc main that i basically have to give up top to or they will feed. they can lane fine but have zero idea how to teamfight. also shyvana farms pretty much at the same speed as jungle nasus so take that as what you will. I think the idea that shyvana "gets ahead" is based on simply poor diamond level play. The jungle is easy enough to clear that you arent going to get super ahead by just farming, you just see a lot of shitty junglers sitting around doing nothing for long amounts of time then they get 2 levels behind. I dont even go rangers on nasus. | ||
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
On September 15 2015 03:18 VayneAuthority wrote: are you the type of player that says WTF WHOLE TEAM ON ME HOW WE LOSE !!!1 after fights? because in that situation the enemy team just kites you back while your carries do no damage since they are out of range and you accomplish absolutely nothing. I see this a lot at diamond which is infuriating to watch when you get the typical riven/irelia/etc main that i basically have to give up top to or they will feed. they can lane fine but have zero idea how to teamfight. also shyvana farms pretty much at the same speed as jungle nasus so take that as what you will. I think the idea that shyvana "gets ahead" is based on simply poor diamond level play. She isn't super fast by any means. I dont even go rangers on nasus. actually no i'm not that type of player at all. if you played with me you'd just get carried really hard from the jungle. i can't possibly imagine a nasus outpacing a jungle shyv. just from the AoE damage of burnout and movespeed alone, nasus shouldn't be keeping up. | ||
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