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On January 24 2014 05:19 Ketara wrote:
Lets say with a double dorans guise build you use 1.5 E's per 30 seconds to harass the enemy mid.
With this setup you use 10.8 mana per second, so you're losing 5.04 mana per second. This keeps you in lane for 95 seconds before running out of mana.
So let me ge this right.
3 E's in 30 seconds is 13 Mana Per Second
1.5 E's in 30 seconds is 10.8 mana per second
Is something wrong with your math?
If I use E once in 30 seconds then the MP/1 is 4.33.
If i use E twice in 30 seconds then its 8.66 MP/1
If i use E three times in 30 seconds then its 13.0 MP/1
1.5 E's in 30 seconds in is 6.5 Mana per second. Not 10.8. With double dorans and good CS you won't ever run out of mana using 1.5 E's per 30 seconds.
Edit: Oh are you suggesting 2.5 E's per 30 seconds? Yea that would be about right. Still a bit more than you really need though, so long as you don't have blue buff. 20 seconds of mana stability is pretty decent tradeoff for ~20% more damage.
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You're using 1.5 E's on the enemy champion, 1 to farm the wave. 2.5 total, which is 10.8 per second. 10.83, actually.
The point is that on Lux, mana regen = damage. The more mana regen you have the more spells you can use and the more damage you do.
There is no stat that increases Lux's damage more than mana regen, that's why we get Athenes first.
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My opinion of all this build stuff:
Currently I would build Lux 1 of three ways, depending on teamcomp.
If the other team is fairly tanky, and doesn't have alot of heroes that are burstable (probably most games this meta) I would most likely end up going athenes/deathcap/voidstaff/etc. This is just a solid farming/utility build that gets capped cdr with blue and basically has no mana problems. You can defend mid tower for a really long time with this. (20% blue duration not needed really)
If I'm against a midlaner thats fairly squishy, and the other team has more easy targets, I would go for a more burst oriented build. This is usually tear/haunting/deathcap/void/aa/lichbane(morellos somewhere after or in here). With this build, you would have only cdr from blue/masteries, so the increased blue buff duration is a big deal. Depending on the game I might drop tear if I need the strength, or haunting if I don't need the survivability.
All of these builds are flexable and rely heavily on how the game is going. If I'm against an ad mid I'd usually go the tear build since athenes seems like a waste. If I'm against people that can jump on me and kill me easily cdr is somewhat a waste since you only get 1 rotation off before you die, and haunting is a really good item.
You guys keep argueing about the numbers when its really that you just need enough mana to keep your tower alive, and then add burst or sustained damge/utility as needed, with defensive items corresponding to your lane opponent. You can get by building pure ap and no mana items/masteries, but it really isn't fun, and alot harder to manage your mana when every spell matters.
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It's not about what you can get by with, it's about what's better. That's why the math is important.
Mathematically, mana regen is the best stat for increasing damage on Lux, which is why we buy mana regen items first.
I do agree that getting Athenes vs. a zero AP team is not so great. Tear+Morellos might be better in that situation, but I dunno. It'd be worth trying out I suppose. I just don't like that build at all, Tear on Lux stacks so slowly. I much prefer getting Athenes and then using the extra item slot to grab a chain vest to make it so you never die, since all AD teams are usually assassin heavy.
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On January 24 2014 06:16 Ketara wrote:
It's not about what you can get by with, it's about what's better. That's why the math is important.
Mathematically, mana regen is the best stat for increasing damage on Lux, which is why we buy mana regen items first.
I do agree that getting Athenes vs. a zero AP team is not so great. Tear+Morellos might be better in that situation, but I dunno. It'd be worth trying out I suppose. I just don't like that build at all, Tear on Lux stacks so slowly.
"Mathematically" mana regen is the best stat for increasing damage on near any mana champion if and only if the enemy sits around and eats continued damage from abilities which use mana and you haven't saturated your mana regen. That doesn't mean that burst champions should build mana or CDR.
If you have a one skill rotation window(I.E. after your skill rotation the enemy can leave, take pots, heal, or kill you before your next skill rotation), maxing damage is always more efficient. This is because it increases your ability to get a kill, limits the enemies re-engage potential, will force more instances where the enemy must back even if they would otherwise have sustain.
Maybe this will make sense. Double Dorans into Guise costs 2285 gold, 315 gold cheaper than Athenes. With that gold you could buy 9 Mana potions for a total mana pool of 500 larger. It would nearly buy you a full flask (So, 180 mana/back). If you're still running out of mana with the cheaper option which has more damage there are swift and easy options to fix that problem.
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You can't buy a flask if you go double dorans into guise, you don't have enough item slots to do it.
Boots+Flask+2dorans+ward+guise = 6 item slots. When you start your deathcap you're selling something. You have a trinket now, but you still have to be buying wards.
You also in general don't have enough extra item slots to be buying mana potions with that build.
I don't think you should think of Lux as a burst champion. She does burst damage in a fight, but in lane she doesn't 100-0 people the way a Syndra or a Leblanc or a Zed can. What she does is constant harassment to get them down to 50% or so and then snare for a kill.
You need to think of her as a long range harassment/poke champion in lane, which means the more spells you can cast the more pressure you can apply and the more damage you can do. This is especially true for Lux because she has pretty nearly the longest range harassment skill in the game. If the opponent is getting CS you're in range to be aggressively harassing them.
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On January 24 2014 07:20 krndandaman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2014 01:15 Ketara wrote:
I would suggest that if you're not AAing in lane a lot (a LOT), you're not playing Lux right early game.
You should be getting at least 5-10 autoattacks on the enemy champion before your first back, unless they're actually somebody with stronger autos than you like Teemo. If they're Melee it should be twice that many.
The only 550 ranged champions in the game with higher base AD are Ryze, Malzahar, Brand, Ziggs and Syndra, by less than 2. Basically that means that in any matchup if you hit them with a spell early you should walk up and trade autos.
You should also always be getting enough CS to make Feast worth it. If you're getting less than 50% of each creep wave you have problems that aren't related to masteries.
Also, do note that blue buff isn't 40% CDR anymore, it's only 10% now. I AA in lane alot, but not in successive order like your math for spell/blade weaving requires. You're assuming you're doing something like this: auto spell auto spell auto usually the most I will be able to do is 1 auto because most are smart enough not to trade AA's with lux. I'm not saying weaving masteries + feast is bad. I understand that they are good. I just don't see how they are better than 30 sec more uptime on blue buff + extra 2.5% CD. I also forgot to mention the 10% summoner cd reduction which is pretty nice. It's a full 30 seconds off flash and 21 seconds off barrier. I guess your masteries set up is better if you're planning to farm out the lane while trading a bit but I believe my mastery set up allows for more aggressiveness and taking control of the lane. Vs someone who doesn't have my masteries, I will have a huge advantage during the 30 seconds I have blue buff or flash or 21 seconds I have barrier. It is also much more useful come lategame.
You're really confusing me here. You're suggesting that buff duration and CDR masteries will be helpful late game, when lategame you'll be CDR capped without any masteries and won't be taking blue buff.
I feel like you need to rethink this.
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You should probably read the guide in regards to 6th items.
The best 6th item for Lux in a normal situation is DFG.
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Typically what you do is get the fiendish codex and start chugging blue pots then, only finishing the DFG later on.
12-12.5k gold depending on how many wards you buy is the point where you get 40% CDR by yourself, which you can get by 30 minutes if you're doing well. With blue buff you can have 40% at 11k. It's not as late game as you might think.
Essentially, CDR masteries are only useful when you have Athenes but aren't CDR capped yet. You get Athenes at about 4200 gold counting a couple wards, which again if you're doing well typically takes at least 15 minutes.
So your CDR masteries are only useful between the 15 minute and 30-35 minute period of the game. For most games that is less than half of the total game time.
Using your masteries to get more regen and more damage at all stages of the game is a much better option.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
Why isn't the CDR mastery useful at all points before the CDR cap, not just only after Athene's?
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Basically, in a broad sense, CDR is only useful if you have the mana to cast spells more often. If you're already in a situation where you're forced to not use spells on cooldown because of mana problems, making those cooldowns come up faster is not helping you.
Lux has incredible mana problems early game, even to the extent where Chalice by itself isn't enough regen. But once she gets an Athenes those problems go away. Then she starts being limited by her long cooldowns and wants CDR. This is why Athenes is such an amazing first item on her because it gives both at once.
Realistically the CDR mastery is already bad. It already doesn't increase her overall damage output as much as almost any other mastery. But it's even worse on Lux, who in the very early game is limited by mana rather than her cooldowns, and in the very late game should be CDR capped without the mastery.
Going back to krndandaman's proposed mastery build, he suggested not taking Feast and Butcher in favor of more CDR. The thing is, even though Butcher is next to useless on Lux, the Feast mastery point is so efficient it's really worth spending 2 points to get it, and also gives Lux regen that she desperately needs right at level 1. Feast gives you a huge advantage in the initial laning, it's like starting the game with an extra potion.
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Unrelated to the discussion, I'm becoming convinced that Lux is a pretty good counter to mid Yasuo. I've played the matchup 7 or 8 times now and every time I stomp him out of the lane really hard. I've gotten several kills on season 3 Diamond Yasuo players at level 3 or 4 at this point.
You just walk up and auto him and he can't do anything about it. There's no way for him to win a trade with you before he hits 6 and if you're always in his face he can't CS.
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On January 25 2014 10:32 Ketara wrote:
Unrelated to the discussion, I'm becoming convinced that Lux is a pretty good counter to mid Yasuo. I've played the matchup 7 or 8 times now and every time I stomp him out of the lane really hard. I've gotten several kills on season 3 Diamond Yasuo players at level 3 or 4 at this point.
You just walk up and auto him and he can't do anything about it. There's no way for him to win a trade with you before he hits 6 and if you're always in his face he can't CS.
He jumps onto you and does 1/2 your health in 2 autos. He can dodge all your skillshots by jumping on minions.
Yasuo is a pretty freaking hard counter to Lux mid, you should NEVER hit him with a skillshot unless hes bad.
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Typically in my games he tries to jump onto me at level 2 or 3 and dies or crawls back at sub 100 health with no potion left.
His dash always goes the same distance and moves pretty slow, and if you snare him during the dash he stops immediately. I've found him real easy to snare mid dash or at the end of a dash.
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So, what are your guys opinion on faith combos?
(This is casting e/r on the assumption that the q you just cast will hit)
They look so pretty and smooth when you land it, but you can also look really silly and miss all spells.
Its really the only way to combo people with stuff like windwall/rappel/pool though (hit them before they can react)
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EPT
