So, here are my presumptions re: Lux for patch 4.2
For mid: Ziggs nerf should make that matchup a bit easier, although I imagine it will still be Ziggs playing aggressive and Lux playing more passive and reactionary.
Kayle nerf should make that lane a little easier.
I think the Riven change will also make Riven mid a bit weaker, although I'm not sure on that one.
Yasuo and Shiv nerfs should make that lane a little easier for Lux post 6. I already think Lux is quite strong vs Yasuo, but if you don't punish him pre 6 he gets hard to deal with, and this should lessen that somewhat.
Mundo and Defense mastery changes should cut down on the number of high HP tanks we see all the time, which is good for Lux since she's typically considered a poor pick vs. supertanks.
Tower change should help her mid game vs. high roam champions, will allow her to punish enemy mids better when they roam and she counters by ulting a wave and AAing their tower.
For support: The Thresh change is nice but realistically I think Lux is still a suboptimal support pick, and will remain that way at the very least until Spellthief openers become viable. I think she's viable as support in solo queue right now, but definitely not a competitive or high level pick.
All in all it looks like a pretty good patch for her IMO. Lux is sad that the dorans shield, Gragas and Kassadin changes didn't go through though. Maybe next patch!
I've looked at the guide, and as someone with no where near 600 ranked games with lux, and only lots and lots of thinking.
I must say I really do think each and every guide that has Athene's in it is wrong about the item.
Chalice is a good item, and Athenes is a good item. Don't get me wrong. Athene's is not a good item for Lux. To be honest, I don't even believe Chalice is that good of an item unless you are against an oppressive AP heavy mid lane (ok, so thats the meta right now, so yeah, rushing Chalice isn't that bad).
But that said, Lux is a Bursty Sniper mage with very little escapes once closed upon. MR late game does all of nothing for her barring 2/50 engagements. So why have one of you NB item slots hogged up with an item that gives inefficient AP, too much mana regen late game, and MR, without 1) selling it for late late game 2) investing in AP inefficiency for lots of gold.
Morellonomicon is a more gold efficient item for what you need to do, and coupled with Chalice gives more than enough MR for only 400 gold more
Morellos costs 2200 gold and gives 75 AP and 20% CDR + decent mana regen Athenes costs 2600 gold, gives 60AP and 20% CDR + insane mana regen + MR Morellos + Chalice = 3080 gold gives 75 AP, 20CDR insane Mana Regen and MR
And then you can sell Chalice late late game for Lich Bane, because lets face it, Lich Bane on her is awesome :D
^ That's not bad maths. Also, the healing debuff isn't a bad thing when trying to combo down an AD/Mundo/WW/ Any champ with sustain.
I don't think its necessary to rush CDR with Lux either. She wants burst in laning phase much more than any other champion, such that sacrificing burst for gold inefficient AP is a horrible decision. For 2440 gold you can get the same AP as Chalice, and for another 840 gold get a massive power boost. Not to mention that with a large rod and lvl 4/5 E you one shot ranged minions.
And no, if you google me, I don't have that many ranked lux games played, because I can't find a team that can protect me well enough to run it in my lowly Silver (and i'm mentioning that so you guys don't 'Discover' it and accuse of me trying to talk down to me about my level").
I was gold 4 last season, and I have played at least 300 games with Lux in various roles. I have had gold players ask me why I was still bronze after playing with them as Lux in normals, and I have made my share of epic plays with her too.
I also wrote a 7 page lux guide detailing most matchups with 5/6 different build paths that won me a Quinn Release Package, although the webpage was taken down before it was published T.T
been dying to say this ever since Froggen started building Athenes on her
At your Dorans Ring maths in the OP Boots 3 HP pots and 1 Blue pot isnt that bad a start either. You run out of mana at about the time that blue buff is up.
A lot of pros will go Morellonomicon instead of Athene's depending on the game too which supports the stance. I think Athene's is still a good item for Lux in a good number of situations but it's nowhere the end-all be-all that it's made out to be.
I really don't think Morellos by itself is enough regen, even at level 18.
Typically pro players who get Morellos on Lux will also get a Tear, or get Dorans Rings with it (which I think is bad, but that's another topic really). Morellos by itself is definitely not enough regen in the mid game when you need to use your spells both to farm and to harass. At full build you can run out of mana in a siege just by harassing if it goes on for a long time even if you have Athenes, and the difference in regen between Athenes and Morellos at that point is huge.
You have 19.8 base MP5 at level 18, which means you have 31.8 with Morellos and an average of 52.2 with Athenes (depending on missing mana) plus the mana regained on kills or assists.
I don't think the Morello+Tear build is bad if you look at it from a 6 item standpoint. The MR is less important outside laning, it's got more AP, similar regen, the Seraphs active is really good, etc. I think at 6 items it's stronger than the Athenes build.
But I think in the mid game Athenes is a lot better. 15 AP on Morello is only adding 9.45 damage to your E harass (32.2875 to your full combo), while the MR from Athenes changes your damage reduction vs. magic from 18% to 38% if we count typical enemy mid game mpen.
That means if you with Athenes goes up against the other guy with Morellos and trade in lane, Athenes is blocking more damage than the Morellos extra 15 AP caused as long as the guy does at least 50 damage to you, NOT counting enemy MR. So basically, Athenes will out trade Morellos in any mid game situation where you take damage.
Even with Morello + Chalice, Athenes would trade better if the enemy player does at least 200 damage, which is still probably less than they're doing with 1 spell.
Basically, in terms of laning power, 10 MR is more valuable than 15 AP.
You have to get away from thinking of Lux as a burst champion in lane. She's a burst champion in teamfights, but in lane she's a lot more like Nidalee. You hit them with E+auto 4 or 5 times and then go in to burst and kill, because if you just walk up and try to burst them at 100% HP you can't get a kill. You'll get them down to like 30%, they'll trade with you because you used all your spells, and now you have no ult and they have an ult and they'll use their potions and pressure you out of lane, or go roam and you can't stop it because you don't have ult.
vs. an AD lane Morellos looks a lot better, but in my experience when I rush Armguard vs. an AD lane I already become so mana starved that going for Morellos and Tear afterwards will just kill any possibility of me pressuring the lane, so I have to end up getting the chalice anyway. Being up against a team that does literally zero magic damage almost never happens. Even champions like Zed and Yasuo do a little bit of magic damage.
If you really want to do the late game Morellos thing and think that's sufficient sustain, rather than buy Morello+Chalice and selling Chalice later, you could buy Athenes and then sell Athenes for Morello after you hit 6 items.
That has a total cost of 2980 gold, while getting Morello+Chalice and selling Chalice costs 2464. 516 gold difference which isn't so huge a deal at 45 minutes or whatever, and you get a stronger mid game item for 480 less gold in the mid game where that much gold is a bigger deal.
I do kind of want to experiment vs. a 5 AD enemy team with a build where you go Armguard into Morello and double Dorans. Morello + 2 Dorans is similar regen to Athenes in the mid game, and it gives you a lot more laning power vs. an AD lane where Athenes MR doesn't matter much.
vs. an AP lane I think Athenes is stronger than Morello+2 Dorans, but vs. an AD it wouldn't be, and it would let you go for an early game build of 2 cloth armor + 2 dorans, which would be stronger than 2 cloth armor + 2 faerie charm (which is awkward as fuck, doesn't give nearly the regen that you need and if you don't get the 7 minute blue it kills your aggression completely)
I'm just really hesitant about having Morello Doran Doran Flask Armguard Boots in the mid game though. That means you're at 6 items before you even start your second big item. Do you finish Zhonyas first in that situation? I dunno.
On February 11 2014 15:55 Arachne wrote: I've looked at the guide, and as someone with no where near 600 ranked games with lux, and only lots and lots of thinking.
I must say I really do think each and every guide that has Athene's in it is wrong about the item.
Chalice is a good item, and Athenes is a good item. Don't get me wrong. Athene's is not a good item for Lux. To be honest, I don't even believe Chalice is that good of an item unless you are against an oppressive AP heavy mid lane (ok, so thats the meta right now, so yeah, rushing Chalice isn't that bad).
But that said, Lux is a Bursty Sniper mage with very little escapes once closed upon. MR late game does all of nothing for her barring 2/50 engagements. So why have one of you NB item slots hogged up with an item that gives inefficient AP, too much mana regen late game, and MR, without 1) selling it for late late game 2) investing in AP inefficiency for lots of gold.
Morellonomicon is a more gold efficient item for what you need to do, and coupled with Chalice gives more than enough MR for only 400 gold more
Morellos costs 2200 gold and gives 75 AP and 20% CDR + decent mana regen Athenes costs 2600 gold, gives 60AP and 20% CDR + insane mana regen + MR Morellos + Chalice = 3080 gold gives 75 AP, 20CDR insane Mana Regen and MR
And then you can sell Chalice late late game for Lich Bane, because lets face it, Lich Bane on her is awesome :D
^ That's not bad maths. Also, the healing debuff isn't a bad thing when trying to combo down an AD/Mundo/WW/ Any champ with sustain.
I don't think its necessary to rush CDR with Lux either. She wants burst in laning phase much more than any other champion, such that sacrificing burst for gold inefficient AP is a horrible decision. For 2440 gold you can get the same AP as Chalice, and for another 840 gold get a massive power boost. Not to mention that with a large rod and lvl 4/5 E you one shot ranged minions.
And no, if you google me, I don't have that many ranked lux games played, because I can't find a team that can protect me well enough to run it in my lowly Silver (and i'm mentioning that so you guys don't 'Discover' it and accuse of me trying to talk down to me about my level").
I was gold 4 last season, and I have played at least 300 games with Lux in various roles. I have had gold players ask me why I was still bronze after playing with them as Lux in normals, and I have made my share of epic plays with her too.
I also wrote a 7 page lux guide detailing most matchups with 5/6 different build paths that won me a Quinn Release Package, although the webpage was taken down before it was published T.T
been dying to say this ever since Froggen started building Athenes on her
At your Dorans Ring maths in the OP Boots 3 HP pots and 1 Blue pot isnt that bad a start either. You run out of mana at about the time that blue buff is up.
Athenes is a farming and counterpush item. You need the mana regen to hold your tower, if 3+ people start pushing it (it's a situation where if your oom, your tower dies.)
You get Athenes in order to safely farm up your burst items (dcap/void).
Your right that Athenes is not the best item for killing people, but the cdr/mana also gives you more opportunity to spam spells to try and wear them down.
Double dorans deathcap voidstaff is a fun build, but it just isn't as safe or consistent since if you use your mana to farm, you often don't have enough to go for a kill, you don't have mana to farm wraiths, you often run oom if 2+ people try to push on you.
The main problem with Lux is that even building pure burst she can really only burst down squishies, and Flash + tenacity/Barrier/Cleanse/1 MR item is enough to make them safe from you often.
What do you think about that build I suggested Dae?
vs. an all AD team, lets say like Zed Vi Yasuo AD Support
Open Cloth+5 pot
Go 2x Cloth Armor + 2x Dorans
Finish Armguard, then get Morellos
After Morello finish Zhonya.
With AP/level blues like you'd take in a vs. all AD runepage you've got about the same AP with Zhonya, Morello and 2 Dorans as you would with Athenes and Deathcap for 360 gold more, so you can hit about the same farm timing to 1 shot caster minions with E, but you're stronger vs. AD at all stages leading up to that with similar regen to Athenes.
After that you'd go either dcap or void staff, I'd have to math out which one does more damage to champions at that point, probably Void.
Then end game build would be Morello, Zhonya, Dcap, Void, Lich Bane. I like Lich Bane over DFG for that build because you've got more AP with the Morello and the AP runes, and with just Morello for sustain the Lich Bane mana suddenly becomes important.
On February 12 2014 02:11 Ketara wrote: What do you think about that build I suggested Dae?
vs. an all AD team, lets say like Zed Vi Yasuo AD Support
Open Cloth+5 pot
Go 2x Cloth Armor + 2x Dorans
Finish Armguard, then get Morellos
After Morello finish Zhonya.
With AP/level blues like you'd take in a vs. all AD runepage you've got about the same AP with Zhonya, Morello and 2 Dorans as you would with Athenes and Deathcap for 360 gold more, so you can hit about the same farm timing to 1 shot caster minions with E, but you're stronger vs. AD at all stages leading up to that with similar regen to Athenes.
After that you'd go either dcap or void staff, I'd have to math out which one does more damage to champions at that point, probably Void.
Then end game build would be Morello, Zhonya, Dcap, Void, Lich Bane. I like Lich Bane over DFG for that build because you've got more AP with the Morello and the AP runes, and with just Morello for sustain the Lich Bane mana suddenly becomes important.
When I did the math, void was almost always more champion damage/gold, at any point. It just sucks for farming.
And IDK about glass on Lux, I feel like if I use it I'm almost always dead when it comes out, except if they are very dive heavy team trying to get only me.
Usually positioning is enough to prevent people from getting to me, and those that it doesn't kinda already destroy Lux anyways so I don't pick Lux into them.
Its a decent item just for the stats, once youve got your cap/void/cdr, but the active is meh.
Yeah we'd be finishing Zhonya first just because with that build you'd be having item slot issues. Would let you have 6 items of Morello Doran Doran Boots Zhonya Void. Sell the first Dorans for deathcap and the second Dorans for Lich Bane.
Zhonyas has good stats but the active is not very useful on her, I agree.
Edit: Here's some level 18 sustain math.
With an Athenes and DFG build, if you're spamming all spells on cooldown you use 48.63 mana per second. You regen 10.44 mana per second and have 1150 mana. So you can continue spamming spells for 30.19 seconds.
With Morello and Lich Bane, you use 43.23 mana per second. You regen 6.36 mana per second and have 1400 mana. You can continue spamming spells for 37.97 seconds.
Realistically you're not spamming all four spells on cooldown all the time, so the difference is smaller, and Athenes gives you the extra regen on kills and assists. But I think that shows that Morello + Lich Bane is probably about equivalent to Athenes regen wise end game.
I'll give this build a try next time I see an enemy team that's all AD.
First off, it seems clear I play a more passive lux than you do (I don't mean this as an insult).
I generally don't run out of mana until 2nd blue's up. Its so engrained into my play style that it just happens naturally now.
That said:
I never said JUST morello's. I admitted that chalice is a good item to get early because of the MR in the harass heavy meta of ziggs/gragas/leblanc right now.
Also, I think delaying the power spike is a bit silly. Instead of building a codex 2nd item, why not a blasting wand into rabbadon? the pure burst is what she needs, not survivability. And by using burst, you need to cast less spells (not even going to get into that maths, because its dependent on so many things).
But just simply if 15ap adds 9 damage I think you said to just her E, how much more damage does another 80 ap add to all her spells? Chalice + Rabba cheaper than Athenes + Void,
I play a lot of ADC/SUP as well as Mid. And If I were to try explain it better it would be along the lines of an ADC
How I see an ADC An ADC (not vayne/kog) doesn't want attack speed early, they want damage, because they are trying to last hit and harass. they aren't particularly trying to melt faces. They just want to farm easier. + Show Spoiler +
ensuring that a creep dies to a spell/attack > sticking around for 2 attacks on 1 creep bot lane
Once the lane phase is over, they want attack speed, because now they need to start doing damage quicker.
And once the other team realizes that they have a scary ADC on the other team, the ADC wants armour pen (although they want this anyways) to get through the armour better.
For a mage its slightly different. But I am going to apply the same principle to how I think lux should be played.
Lux in lane Early game as lux you want damage, because you can abuse your spell ranges to farm safer, and extra damage saves mana, as it allows spells + passive to kill things easier, reduces the need for extra spells to hit the champ to threaten lethal, adds onto your shield (marginally), etc. Mid game you want magic pen to get thru everyones items/natural MR, for extra damage. Mid-late game people start building tanky and burst+MR pen isn't enough, and you start wanting to cycle through spells faster, to do more damage, and fall back into the "pokey" mage that lux can also be.
Athene's doesnt fit into this at all for me. By getting athenes instead of a bigger item with a larger power spike (Chalice + Large rod cheaper than Athenes for same AP and similar MR and same passive), you are hurting her transition into mid game. Yeah, sure she can poke faster and more often, but she's doing so at the cost of significantly reduced damage. If both champs get Athenes, she does even less, where a champion like ziggs, gragas, ahri LOVES chalice, and can combo you down with just that power spike.
I also disagree that lux needs to particulary rush armour vs an AD lane. I won't say she doesn't want to at stages, but I don't think she needs to 100% rush it over maybe taking an extra point in shield early/earlier.
If you're not running out of mana before the first blue buff is up, you're not using your spells enough.
Be a man when you play little girls, attack the other guy. AP doesn't give you any damage and regen doesn't give you any sustain if you aren't casting your spells.
But no mana =/= not full mana (=regen useless)... Sure, you might do less harass, but if it isn't meaningful harass in the first place, might as well conserve mana. Guess the conclusion is, build depends on circumstances. heh.
I think Lux support is best in the late game where you can get enough items to start playing her like a second AP carry, and she needs gold to get there, so starting without a gold item is not so good.
Flask gives you some gold, but if we assume it's about as much as 3 potions per back, that's 105 gold per back. Ancient Coin gives about 4.2 GP10 and more than doubles when you upgrade it, so eventually as long as you are in lane longer than 90 seconds it would be more efficient than a flask.
A lot of the cost efficiency of Dorans Ring comes from CSing, so if you're not CSing it's not as worth it.
The proposed change on Spellthief's Edge is potentially SO good for support Lux, much better than for any other champion (potentially).
This is because unlike other champions, her passive is coded as an additional spell effect, rather than an on hit autoattack effect.
Meaning, it is entirely possible that, when you E and then auto a guy, you would get all 3 Tribute procs on the same person. 12 gold and 30 damage, when you currently get 4 gold and 6 damage for the same cost. The cooldown on Tribute would also line up perfectly with the cooldowns on Lux's spells.
This would change her level 1 Q+auto damage from 140.3 to 163.3, kind of a big deal.
Of course it's also possible that it wouldn't work like that and your passive wouldn't give an additional Tribute proc. It would still be a big buff to the Spellthief items regardless, but at least potentially this is a bigger buff to Lux than it is to other champions.
spellthief looks best, steel legion has the best effects :3 many ppl rather say E is not easy to see instead of Q..but i dont have any problems playing against steel legion lux tbh.
EPT
