EPT[Ultimate Guide] Pantheon - Page 9
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Sakray
France2198 Posts
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
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VashTS
United States1675 Posts
On July 20 2013 12:53 VashTS wrote: I'm kinda bad and "lost" (went even) with a Ryze in lane just now. I started Fask 3pot, he started mana crystal. Should I have started Red Pot and just facerolled him? Trading Q's was slightly favorable at level 1, and QW-AA-Q seemed to hurt a bit less than his combo (minions maybe) but I must have been doing something wrong to not be able to smash an early game ryze with only a mana crystal. He seemed to recover a ton of hp for only 2 pots, which kinda threw me off.. Requote. | ||
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Faster69
69 Posts
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
There's no way you should have loss that lane. Ryze didn't even have any armor. I don't know the specifics but if you went "even" against Ryze in mid lane, you're actually behind due to how Ryze and Panth scale. Edit: You should poke far better because 1) you have more item regen, 2) Spears hurt more. By level 3, you should have completely zoned Ryze. | ||
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VashTS
United States1675 Posts
See that's all what I figured too, but that's not how it worked at all, which is why I'm so fucking confused.. I need to play the matchup again I guess. | ||
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
From what I can glean, you aren't harassing enough in lane (and I don't mean strictly level 1. In fact, I don't spear much at level 1, mostly at 3 and 5). You shouldn't be afraid to walk up and poke trade with auto attacks, esp when your passive is up. | ||
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affinity
United States266 Posts
Lower spear harass damage when I only have tiamat kinda sucks though, so I guess it's better if I only get it if I manage to get ahead. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
Hydra provides AoE autos and extra regen but that's nothing compared to the scaling AD/LS from BT. | ||
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LoCicero
1100 Posts
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
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Atrioc
United States1866 Posts
STATS: HYDRA: 75 AD, 12% Lifesteal, 15 hp5 BT: 70 AD, 12% Lifesteal For essentially the same price, Hydra gives you better base stats (5 more AD, 15hp5) and builds way more efficiently/cleaner (Pickaxe + long swords + rejuv beads, all great/cheap laning items vs. BT + vamp). ABILITY: HYDRA: Auto attack reset, best possible waveclear (costs no mana), best possible usage of lifesteal (generally a bad stat on Panth) BT: Stacking up to +30 ad, +6% lifesteal off of 30 minion kills, half stacks lost on death. To justify BT over Hydra, you have to be saying that the possibility of stacking +25 AD over Hydra is not only more valuable than Hydra's auto attack reset, AOE waveclear, and better lifesteal, but its so much better as to justify the worse build path, more mana-hungry and slower wave clear, and ability to lose any of that advantage upon a death. I cant make that justification, especially with just how good/fun hydra feels (i like the addition of more to do/think about by getting to spam the item active), so I almost never go BT over Hydra. Obviously other people's mileage will vary but I definitely encourage giving Hydra a shot a couple times to really get a feel for it. On July 29 2013 02:02 clickrush wrote: I'am not completely sold on maxing hss. the base damage on Q goes up faster than on hss and Q is far less situational than hss. Also clearing speed is really a non-issue when I play panth. Things I care about when playing him is map awareness, gank timings, objectives, and panths health and mana. Farming/clearing at lvl 10+ and buying the first big thing is like the last item on my priority list. I'm not sure about the base damage part: HSS: MAX PHYSICAL DAMAGE VERSUS CHAMPIONS: 80 / 140 / 200 / 260 / 320 +60 each time, with a +360% bonus AD ratio with a full channel SPEAR: PHYSICAL DAMAGE: 65 / 105 / 145 / 185 / 225 +40 each time, with a +140% bonus AD ratio but I do agree that HSS is more situational - I just generally find the situation to be - "Are we not in lane phase + do I want to kill this guy" and that comes up a lot. | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
taking hss over spear is a purely psychological thing. when you are hssing it feels great because the damage is so high, but you actually spear at least 2 times more often. in a teamfight I hss 1 mb two times when its maxed but i spear like 5 times or so. you cant hss an ad carry who is kiting you, you cant hss when you are repositioning in general. in lane spear has no counterplay except not getting in range. the base mana stays the same with spear as well while hss mana cost scales. the damage on hss also has to make up for you channeling and not autoattacking. just looks so manly/scary to hss. | ||
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OmegaKnetus
Germany431 Posts
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DeltaBravo
United States119 Posts
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On July 28 2013 22:06 NeoIllusions wrote: Honestly, I don't see the appeal of Hydra on Panth. Why do you need "easier" clear with Hydra when you have HSS max'd at level 10? Hydra provides AoE autos and extra regen but that's nothing compared to the scaling AD/LS from BT. I still don't see the appeal of Hydra on anyone but like...Lee. >.> Every time I see someone get Hydra in one of my games it just feels so underwhelming. | ||
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LoCicero
1100 Posts
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Atrioc
United States1866 Posts
On August 03 2013 10:32 LoCicero wrote: Hmm, I might actually be a convert, Hydra has felt strong in both games I've bought it, although I was pretty ahead already so BT might have felt the same way. I'm a convert on the CDR build for the opening alone. Dblade + pot + biscuit is such an awesome thing to go to lane with. It also might just be my imagination but I really feel like the gold masteries really help me out when I roam so much. | ||
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ComaDose
Canada10357 Posts
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