EPTGreat guide!
[Ultimate Guide] Pantheon - Page 5
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zodde
Sweden1908 Posts
Great guide! | ||
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bittman
Australia8759 Posts
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Silvanel
Poland4744 Posts
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
I just tried the pots + 14/16 opening and lost cuz i didnt flash to kill him on the lv 2 all in when i pushed wave. His jungler showed up and i didn't go b then eventually he just started all-in trading with me while his wave pushed. | ||
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Audemed
United States893 Posts
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Advocado
Denmark994 Posts
Riven destroyed me and vayne mid-lategame destroys everyone. | ||
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saddaromma
1129 Posts
On July 10 2013 09:43 Advocado wrote: Frustrating game: WHat do you build vs. a Hecarim, Vayne, Lux, Riven, Thresh team? I just feel like I got roflstomped in every teamfight. Is this an example of a team that I should just build hydra vs and splitpush? I built Muramana, Black cleaver, Ninja Tabi, Bloodthirster, hexdrinker, GA. Riven destroyed me and vayne mid-lategame destroys everyone. I suggest ignoring riven until very last. Her dashes are short and predictable. Best scenario, let riven to have early tower and go roaming. Pantheon>>>Riven at early/mid-game ganks. Most likely Riven will be pushing her lane until the inhibitor while her team is dying and losing dragons and turrets. | ||
Atrioc
United States1865 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [Key Moments] + TOP LANE, vs Lee Sin, Smurf @ Gold ELO. Showing how Pantheon can be used to absolutely take control over a gold level game when played aggressively. Some key moments: - Early game hyper aggression at level 1 to gain dominance of the lane and force him to pop his red pot far earlier than he would want. - Snowball that lane lead into the ability to roam to my jungle and stop the invade without him being able to follow safely (HUGELY important, this shows how pressure can lead to more pressure which can lead to huge game losing mistakes by your opponents). - By 5 minutes I have double buff, 2 kills, have drawn massive jungler attention to give my other lanes breathing room, and have crippled my lane opponent - THIS is how you want to be playing as Pantheon. - As top lane Pantheon, I use my jump on my lane opponent a lot more than usual because its so hard to effectively roam bottom lane without losing your tower. At 6 you can see me take down Lee Sin by suprising him with a jump from the brush. - By 10 minutes I have 3x my lane opponent's CS and have at least allowed my other lanes to go even by dragging so much jungler pressure. - At around 12 minutes I kill Lee Sin again by using my jump - the key thing about this is that it eliminates his ability to counterplay me by giving me the first move. Since I am able to use my "W" while falling from the sky, he is stunned and taking damage before he has any ability to react or escape. - I now feel that Lee has died enough and that spending too much more time on him is wasting the huge power spike I'm currently in because of how little gold he is worth. I start roaming to keep pressure throughout the map. - At 17 minutes I make good use of map awareness to see that Lee Sin has just shut down Zac in the top lane but was left fairly low and manage to get the jump on him yet again. - By 20 minutes, they surrender. A solid, clean, Pantheon-esque victory. Not every game will turn out like this, but I swear this is not something I cherry-picked - any Pantheon game I play at this elo will almost always go similarly smooth because of how aggressive I am able to be to get the snowball rolling and keep morale high on my team. On July 10 2013 04:04 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: Should I be running 14/16/0 or 21/9/0 in matchups vs Fizz mid? And how should I open? I just tried the pots + 14/16 opening and lost cuz i didnt flash to kill him on the lv 2 all in when i pushed wave. His jungler showed up and i didn't go b then eventually he just started all-in trading with me while his wave pushed. 14/16 opening is best vs. a mid laner that has some annoying pre-6 CC - Syndra, Lux, Annie, etc. It makes you a lot less vulnerable to both their auto attacks and stuns. I would definitely go 21/9/ vs. an all-in, no-CC type caster like Fizz. You can start red pot, or flask (I'd prefer flask) and start bullying him right from the beginning with spears while trying to keep the wave in the center of the lane or slightly pushing towards you. He has no ranged harass, loses a good chunk of his damage in small trades because of your passive, and is hugely mana inefficient in attempting to use his "E" to dodge anything of yours. Also never be afraid to all in with Flash at level 1 or 2 if you think it has a real shot at getting a kill or crippling them in lane (see video above!) - no jungler is going to gank you until they hit level 3 with double buffs, which should definitely not have happened yet assuming normal leveling speed from you. Obviously be wary though, because once youve blown your flash (especially if you didnt kill the opposing laner) you are guaranteed to now be the first place the jungler is going to go once they do finish that 2nd buff - great opportunity to set up a countergank or simply play safe and waste his time. On July 09 2013 15:38 zodde wrote: In what situations (if any) would it be better to max q before starting to max e? Never tried maxing e on panth, will be fu to try out. Great guide! I max Q up to Rank 3 in almost every lane, then generally switch to maxing "E" so it is maxed out by lvl 10. Maxing "E" straightaway can be good in matchups against pure melee characters and you will definitely feel the extra damage, but spear is such a valuable ranged harass tool in lane that I think its definitely better in the majority of situations. On July 10 2013 09:43 Advocado wrote: Frustrating game: WHat do you build vs. a Hecarim, Vayne, Lux, Riven, Thresh team? I just feel like I got roflstomped in every teamfight. Is this an example of a team that I should just build hydra vs and splitpush? I built Muramana, Black cleaver, Ninja Tabi, Bloodthirster, hexdrinker, GA. Riven destroyed me and vayne mid-lategame destroys everyone. Hecarim is one of my absolute nightmares to see on the other team when I pick Pantheon - he is such a stupid tanky unkillable monster in teamfights (as Panth) that him alone is generally cause for me to stick to split pushing/hydra. Thresh is also super annoying, Vayne is one of the hardest AD carries to pin down as Pantheon (you really love to see someone like Draven, Quinn, Ashe, etc.), and Riven really gives Pantheon a hard time after 6, so I would definitely say you probably were at a pretty hard uphill climb in this game right from champion select. If I understand right, you were laning against Riven - if possible you would really want to be agianst the Lux, who is a great lane for Pantheon to start exerting his dominance in. You can beat Riven in lane pre-6 by going real agressive early and taking advantage of your passive (preferably even starting with a fort pot), but after 6 its very difficult without an advantage and she will often start something like cloth-5 and negate your spear harass with "E" in order to get there. Anyway my full advice if you HAD to play vs. that comp in that lane would definitely be to get a hydra ASAP and keep dragging someone's attention away so you can jump in and try force 5v4s. | ||
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Sakray
France2198 Posts
On July 10 2013 14:35 Atrioc wrote: I max Q up to Rank 3 in almost every lane, then generally switch to maxing "E" so it is maxed out by lvl 10. Maxing "E" straightaway can be good in matchups against pure melee characters and you will definitely feel the extra damage, but spear is such a valuable ranged harass tool in lane that I think its definitely better in the majority of situations. So you say that maxing Q before E against ranged opponents is better ? I used to do that before fort pot got nerfed, I think it gives a way more powerful harass and you don't have to commit that much to deal dmg (like if you max E and have to jump on them to use it) | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On July 10 2013 16:33 Sakray wrote: So you say that maxing Q before E against ranged opponents is better ? I used to do that before fort pot got nerfed, I think it gives a way more powerful harass and you don't have to commit that much to deal dmg (like if you max E and have to jump on them to use it) The idea behind keeping Q at 3 and maxing E first is because E's by far the stronger teamfight/skirmish skill. If you stop putting levels in Q at 3 then max E you get max E at level 10, which is about when skirmishes and fights over objectives tend to start. If you max Q first, you still do decent damage, but you don't get max E until much later, which can hurt you impact on the game. | ||
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Sakray
France2198 Posts
On July 10 2013 17:33 Ryuu314 wrote: The idea behind keeping Q at 3 and maxing E first is because E's by far the stronger teamfight/skirmish skill. If you stop putting levels in Q at 3 then max E you get max E at level 10, which is about when skirmishes and fights over objectives tend to start. If you max Q first, you still do decent damage, but you don't get max E until much later, which can hurt you impact on the game. Well I'm much more a duellist instead of a teamfighter (I've always said it, this probably is my strongest skill, but also my weakest. But hey, when your mates are usually retarded, better try to snowball alone, right ?), which is why usually my mindset is "crush this guy so hard so the game turns into a 5v4". I don't like playing too passive because I'm building towards teamfighting phase. That's also probably why all my mains are assassins (Zed, Kha'Zix -he's weird to play since his nerf-, Pantheon, Fiora, Syndra,...), or in general, champs that can deny your opponent extremely hard (Yorick might be the best for that). I've played the full arpen build few times, and the Perseus build as well (tear=>bruta=>bt), and I feel that with Perseus you're not allowed to make any mistake in early game because his damage spike comes really late (until you grab manamune when you're tear is at about 500), so if you're denied, you're just useless, while you can still explode botlane with full arpen build. Yesterday I played with Perseus vs a Galio (he fucked me hard once he got Seeker's Armguard), and got camped by Hecarim early, and Hecarim+Darius+Galio midgame, at one point I was at 2-8 iirc. I had to afk farm to have a decent build to bring utility to my team. Imo they camped me because the 2 times Heca ganked top to help Darius, our Garen grabbed a double kill each time, so they just gave up the lane. And I don't remember how botlane was doing, probably average (well, their Varus was quite fed at some point, so I decided to sacrifice myself every teamfight by ulting on him and stunning him so my team can instagib him). I guess at this point I was the stunner of the team instead of the assassin. I also couldn't ult constantly bot because everytime I wanted to, my botlane was pushing. And when they weren't I was ganked, so... But so far that's the only game I lost, I hardcarried a ranked by getting fed early, then I managed to give kills to both bot and toplane with timed ults so we all snowballed at the end  Btw, what software did you used to make this video ? | ||
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Atrioc
United States1865 Posts
Here is a full recent game I played at Diamond 1 (around 50lp) complete with commentary on all my decisions/thought process: Part 1: + Show Spoiler [Part2] + + Show Spoiler [Part3] + | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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ComaDose
Canada10357 Posts
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Sakray
France2198 Posts
17-7-11 3-10-7 (got camped really hard by Hecarim, then by Hecarim+Darius, and bot was too pushed when I had the occasion to ult there) 13-4-11 9-5-10 (got flamed because I called, picked and locked before the other actually asked for mid -normal game-, where he wanted to run clairvoyance/flash with Nida, wtf. I ended up being fed, and gave 2 kills to top and 3 or 4 to my adc, from there we snowballed hard and they gave me honor haha) I'm in promotion series now, I guess I'll try to go Pantheon the 3 games | ||
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Simpel
Denmark7 Posts
After the Tear of The Goddess nerf, stacking slower now, would you still prioritize buying it for pantheon? Does the mana regen it provides, supply enough value for it, so it is worth buying? What are your thoughts ? Also, Amazing guide! Playing with Perseus Pantheon skin while listening to 300 and God of War music, I have never had more fun playing this game! Thanks for the amazing introduction to pantheon! | ||
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The_Unseen
France1923 Posts
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
Eve, being fairly dumb, ganked when Ryze was level 1 instead of getting red to hit 3 and/or waiting for Ryze to get 2 more creeps for level 2. Would you have backed off when Ryze is about to hit 2 in order to avoid that? When do you start chucking spears again? Eve at 3 + Ryze at 3 has very high kill potential. You killed Ryze with Zac's help when Eve wasn't in position to countergank. How would you have handled lane if 1) you didn't get FB gold, and 2) didn't get a kill there? You both would have came back to lane with a tear about even, and had no pink ward for Eve. | ||
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daredpanda
United States60 Posts
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
On July 12 2013 03:34 daredpanda wrote: how would you lane vs a Oriana? I find that she zones me out alot!!! some of the safer ap carries like orianna/liss etc. are hard to play against as any melee assassin if they get some good gank assist at early levels because for them it's easy and safe to poke you while you draw creep aggro and have to be generally closer to win trades. this is the very general dynamic of the safe ap carry vs risky assassin midlane matchup and panth is one of the most aggressive/risky types who has to ward a ton if he want to straight up beat his lane. a khaziks for example has 2 escapes and a better poking ability than panth but doesnt have the stun hs combo and global presence. the bottom line is ward constantly and be brave. | ||
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