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Amazing guide, as a pantheon main, I'm so glad he has such a worthy guide now.
One other opening you might want to mention is boots as it gives you a killer level 4 all in while really capitalizing on the speed of a spartan warrior. Especially vs someone like cho where, as you pointed out, you need the early kill, I feel the boots lets you dodge the rupture/silence, run from the jungle gank with highest base ms in the game, and chase down kills (this really applies to top lane since it's so much longer). With boots, you can change your all in combo to
Q->W->ignite->auto->E->auto->Q.
Panth also has a faily long auto attack range so combined with boots, it's really easy to sneak the extra auto in after your E ends. Boots also lets you Q at the beginning and end of your all in, really increasing the total damage output. Assuming flat AD page, 21 offense, 52 enemy armor, and boots start, you're looking at around 530~ damage with your lvl 4 all in, not taking into account executioner or certain death.
I really like that you point out to save mana at lvl 2, so if you calculate your mana properly, you can spear them down at lvl 3 to around 500hp and then all in as soon as you hit lvl 4.
Boots opening also has the added bonus of not telegraphing your aggressive intent as much as an elixir start might.
I also run 21-0-9 sometimes for the added mana regen and biscuit since against a lot of melee laners in general, you won't be getting hit much with boots start+aegis.
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Amazing guide, mad props!!!
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Atrioc how do you feel about top lane Panth? I know you addressed it in passing in the guide.
When I play against Pantheon in the top lane I feel like on a bruiser I can just run him out of mana with consumables, back and get some armor, dshield whatever and not feel threatened. Or pick a ranged champ, think Kennen, Ryze, Jayce and farm to outscale him.
Look for good ults mid, try to invade with jungler when you're strong early or push them to tower?
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That must be a bitch to edit and update (you may want to use the [anchor] tag and links in your table of contents too, to make it easier to navigate the guide since we can't use the search function because of the pictures).
Props for the efforts, it obviously took a lot of work.
Quick questions:
- you mention Malzahar as a pretty favourable match-up, is that because of his low mobility to respond to your roaming? He has very good (and pretty much free) pushing, coupled with harass if you don't position well (made harder by being a melee), and long range which lets him E you at will when you come up to Q him (he doesn't refund mana nor pushes this way though, and at early levels the cooldown leaves him vulnerable unless he has a Voidling to zone you). Can't he just play passive and punish you with his jungler for having to pressure so far?
- same with Annie, her Q has the same cooldown and a bit more range than yours, coupled with more base damage and her autoattacks to make up for you having more MR than she has armour. Her passive makes this harass worse by allowing more autos. Is it about threatening a 2-5 all-in (since your autos and E hit harder to make up for her previous harass) so she doesn't stay around too long?
- What is the point of the Perseus build/Tear start? You're weaker early game because of the 700 gold which only give you mana that some pots would give you for much less, and for raw damage a BT associated with his scaling would give more (assuming a total pool of ~2000 mana, giving Muramana 60 AD and a diminishing 120 damage on-hit/ability effect, Muramana does more at first on Qs and autos, but less on E).
It weakens your pushing power because it delays the point at which you have enough AD to one-shot the waves (the reason why I skip brutaliser if I can get a fast BT, even if it means coming to lane with a bunch in bank, super-push 2-3 waves and back for BFS asap), it doesn't give its damage very soon so you can't really burst/assassinate as well. In exchange, you handle tanky/sustain lanes better because you can't be run oom and you get a stronger single target damage output later—at the cost of sustain (important for dueling too) and coming at a timing where you peak has already passed (you give a ~30 minutes estimation).
However, it is also pretty smooth, because a Tear is easy to build, and getting the Manamune is only 400 then 1000 gold, compared to 1550 for BT's or 1025 for LW's single highest increments.
I'm having trouble seeing the point you make for a Tear opening (and later Muramana) being the currently best one. Is it because, while I see the others as good and Tear underwhelming, you see the others as greedy while Tear is the most consistent?
On July 07 2013 03:07 Xenocide_Knight wrote:
Amazing guide, as a pantheon main, I'm so glad he has such a worthy guide now.
The previous one is actually one of the best in this section, if only for the its comprehensive playstyle section which addresses a lot of things, from how to leverage pressure (from item advantage) early, to clearing misconceptions about Panth's late game. Doesn't take anything away from this one obviously.
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Baa?21248 Posts
'swell, time to go back to feeding on panth havent done it in so long~
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United States37500 Posts
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You make me want to purchase Pantheon.
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PRETTY.
This is gonna get me to start playing Pantheon again...
And probably get wrecked. worth it. h4h4h4
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This is awesome. Thank you! I've never played him yet but he looks pretty awesome so I might pick him up to follow this guide!
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Like many tlers one of my first champs was panth because of smash and loci, time to go back to my roots. Awesome guide man
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Awesome guide. Actually read all of it. Presentation 10/10 Content 10/10 Style 20/10
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This is the new standard for champion guides on TL LoL; please delete/lock all other threads Neo; they're not worthy to be called "champion threads"
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Time to play pantheon and feed :D But amazing guide, thanks for putting in the extra effort to make it look as great as the content is!
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TIL: Pantheon is science.
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Atrioc... Where's my name under credits where I suffered the duo queue terror with u as mantheon. = =
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On July 07 2013 03:26 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2013 03:07 Xenocide_Knight wrote:
Amazing guide, as a pantheon main, I'm so glad he has such a worthy guide now. The previous one is actually one of the best in this section, if only for the its comprehensive playstyle section which addresses a lot of things, from how to leverage pressure (from item advantage) early, to clearing misconceptions about Panth's late game. Doesn't take anything away from this one obviously.
Yea but this one goes more in depth into why Pantheon is awesome and that's really the true essence of playing Pantheon.
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10-2-7 as jungle Pantheon with your build. Quite fun to play pantheon again as I used to play him back when he was truly OP (with the full map Skyfall and heartseeker/striker(?). Last normal game on my summoner.
http://www.lolking.net/summoner/euw/19353948#history
Is Last Whisper a good follow up to the core items on jungle pantheon?
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
How do you reconcile the desire for early kills and aggression with purchasing a Tear, a 700g item that won't do anything for a long time?
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EPT
