EPTGetting Shiv later on is fine. It's cheaper than PD but PD is better. I wouldn't go Cutlass+Avarice in bot lane. You'll lose trades with most people if you build Avarice in bot lane unless you get really lucky. And it's not like Quinn has the range or late game to just choose to afk farm against most ADCs.
[Champion] Quinn and Valor - Page 3
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overt
United States9006 Posts
Getting Shiv later on is fine. It's cheaper than PD but PD is better. I wouldn't go Cutlass+Avarice in bot lane. You'll lose trades with most people if you build Avarice in bot lane unless you get really lucky. And it's not like Quinn has the range or late game to just choose to afk farm against most ADCs. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
I'm trying to be a big lane bully and gain either a cs or kill advantage and then progressively snowball before regular ADC's take over. | ||
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Zella Dae
United States14 Posts
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archon256
United States363 Posts
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Cheap0
United States540 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
It's really made me shelve Quinn altogether and wait to see if season 4 provides any avenues for improvement. | ||
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miicah
Australia2470 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Besides Homeguard is too good. My other big problem with Quinn mid recently is that what she does really well against is non-Kassadin melee mids. She does well against Kass pre 6 but after 6 he just destroys her. Akali, Katarina and Khazix she destroys pretty handily and I haven't seen any of them in mid in a long time. Zed she's alright against but not as good as the others and I sort of prefer Lissandra against Zed. Meanwhile, Quinn is really scared of safe ranged AP mids with all in potential like Orianna and Ahri, who we see all the time now. It's a bad time for the bird lady methinks. | ||
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ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
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ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
I tried some Quinn mid when the S4 patch came out but I didn't really have good results. I'm gonna wait and update the OP once the Rune changes come out and things settle down a little. | ||
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TheHumanSensation
Canada1210 Posts
I really like Quinn, but primarily because her harrier / crit animation shoots 3 bolts instead of 1, and looks pretty cool, imo. I've tried normal AD carry builds, but it's just not consistently triple-bolty enough. I've decided that Sword of the Divine is core on Quinn because of this, but I'm not entirely sure what I should be accompanying it with. I'm not looking for IE vs BT number crunching specifically or anything like that (although I respect your ability to roughly mathcraft things), but rather your knowledge of how she flows throughout the game, things like how much AS is too much AS, a good sense of how her AD scaling holds up vs defensive item timings in other lanes, and other things of the sort that I really wouldn't know how to fit into a semi-optimal build myself. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Numbers wise what Quinn scales really well with is CDR and AD/armor pen, not really so much crit and definitely not attack speed. The biggest issue with her right now I feel is that itemization for her just doesn't exist. If Ghostblade were a better item it would be core, but it's not and remains awkward. Realistically I think the core Quinn build should be Bilgewater Cutlass + Phage + Brutalizer. These three items give her everything she wants and gives her a strong mid game. The problem with Quinn then becomes that each of these items upgrades into something awkward. Trinity is unimpressive because she doesn't have a good spammable low CD ability to make use of Sheen procs. BC is just not good on her and Ghostblade, while good, is too cheap and slot inefficient compared to big 3k gold items. She likes the BotRK active, but is unimpressed with the passive and attackspeed. An end game season 4 Quinn build at this point might be BotRK, Triforce, Ghostblade, LW and Guardian Angel. I'm still planning on working on the guide at some point, but I'm kind of waiting until either favorable rune changes or her getting buffed, because I don't want to start the guide with "Hey, this champion is just not competitive in the current meta" She's so much fun to play too, it makes me sad. | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
If we are considering Quinn an ADC (which we shouldn't be) we would have to note that her kit has a tonne of base damage in it, but not all that much scaling. We would note also that Quinn has a lot of free attack speed which should, more or less always be up as well as good base attack speed and decent scaling attack speed. The increase in base attack speed will slightly lower our optimal numbers because we don't need as much to hit a cap where we waste time moving. As she should be leveling W second she will have between 20 to 40% free attack speed (and 40-80 in her ult) for the majority of the game. Since the W passive attack speed activates any time she triggers a mark, a mark lasts for 3 seconds and the w passive buff lasts for 3 seconds; Quinn should be able to have her attack speed buff up the majority of a fight. This means she only needs like 20%-40% more attack speed to hit the "roughly optimal ADC" levels which she would want to hit if she did not have a lot of base damage. If you're ulting then you need 0% more attack speed to hit your optimal amount of attack speed. However because quinn has so much base damage if you decide to build attack speed Quinn will probably be a bit weaker than she could be otherwise. The only attack speed items you should consider are Ghostblade (attack speed on the active, also has Pen and AD, and CDR), BotRK (because it builds out of Cutlas), Triforce (synergizes really well with heavy penetration builds, has lots of move speed, as much attack speed as you will need, also builds out of phage), or Berzerker's greaves. All off these with the exception of the Ghostblade will be a bit inefficient during your ult(though you can use your W and Q during your ult to get triforce procs its not as good as just having AD/Crit due to how much attack speed you have). Ghostblade will be inefficient any time you haven't used its active. I haven't played a lot of Quinn but the problem of her early->lategame itemization should be pretty clear from this. She wants lifesteal for sustain, penetration for damage, and off-tankyness. Name two items that provide all of that. Vamp, Brut, Phage? Triforce is probably the best item for Quinn of the things those build into. Even with tanky items after triforce she isn't beefy enough to be a true bruiser and so dive the back line. So she wants LW on top of that. But now you have Triforce, LW as your core and you're missing out on the lifesteal. Truthfully i would probably look at something like so Vamp->Phage->Brut ->Finish Triforce-> Finish Last Whisper -> Off tanky item depending on enemy team -> Finish Black Cleaver -> Finish BT. CDR boots somewhere in here. Cleaver over Ghostblade because you get health from it, because you don't benefit as much from the crit on the GB or the active attack speed. As well since you may have to attack very high armored targets for a while in a fight, the extra penetration will be valuable. So if you combine your Triforce Health with your Black Cleaver Health with your off tanky item health you're going to have a good amount of HP, even with Quinn's poor HP values. You don't finish Cutlass because you're just using the vamp for sustain and the extra 2% isn't worth it. OK yes the active on cutlass is awesome especially since Cutlass is very efficient. But the AD on BT is better than the AS and passive on BotRK. And not upgrading it means we get the chase and damage from Phage/Brutalizer a bit faster. | ||
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Cheap0
United States540 Posts
Associated Reddit thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/20jm05/high_elo_quinn_montageguide/ So this is a guide WhattheMoose recently put out on Quinn. I haven't really tried the build he advocates, but it's really interesting to me. He goes for a super armor pen build with armor pen marks and quints, but instead of AD goes very very heavily into attack speed (and movespeed). His logic is that with very high attack speed and armor pen, you can build up Black Cleaver stacks quickly, Shiv stacks quickly, and get great mileage out of BotRK passive damage. The movespeed also gives improved kiting and chasing ability. The attack speed focus does seem a little odd, but this guy is maining her at Diamond 1 and doing really well with her apparently. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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TheHumanSensation
Canada1210 Posts
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On March 17 2014 08:04 TheHumanSensation wrote: Er, do you think he knows that percentage penetration stacks multiplicatively, not additatively? I thought BC shreads armor LW takes off whats left thn Armpen removes the rest? | ||
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Cheap0
United States540 Posts
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