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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
There are two distinct issues being conflated here:
1) You ideally should play every champ to have a basic sense of how the champ feels;
2) You ideally should focus on one champ to learn the champ's limits.
You should work on both at the same time. If you're grinding ranked, then you'll do much better honing your skills on a few champions. It takes experience on Garen to know exactly when your Q->E->Ignite->Ult is going to be a kill, for example. But on the other hand, if you've never played Fizz, it's not obvious exactly what his weaknesses are, and you'll probably struggle against him your first few times.
What I do is this: when I play ranked, I limit myself to basically 3-4 champions. When I play normals with high-elo friends, I only play my "developmental pool", i.e., champs I'm thinking about introducing to ranked. And when I play normals with low-elo friends (or bots with my beginner friends), I only play champs I'm completely unfamiliar with to learn a new style.
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its questionable though if the knowledge you get from playing a few games is accurate aside from "I guess this champ isn't THAT op"
first of all you're playing a champ you suck at and secondly you probably know most of their mechanics from playing against them/lolwiki
even pro players who have all day to play LoL don't waste their time playing a wide range of champs so why would worse players with less time decide its an efficient way to improve?
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Pro players have almost certainly already played all the champions. They don't have to continue to do it.
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playing a champ in a completely different meta 2 years ago might as well have never played the champ
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How do you guys think the Black Cleaver changes will affect the old AD bruiser/early pressure junglers like Khazix, Rengar, Patheon, etc. who would often build Last Whisper at some point but also highly value CDR? It also seems relatively versatile because you can build Kindlegem and head either towards Aegis or Cleaver dependent on game situation. Also do you think we'll see even more Sion top/jungle heading toward Cinderhulk, Frozen Heart and Cleaver for solid health and defenses? Do you think that Cleaver is strong enough to bring back Rengar/Khazix/Reksai top or Khazix mid? Do you think we'll see junglers build Warrior into Cleaver or Cinderhulk into Cleaver instead of the heavy teamfighting tank focus we've seen with Gragas/Sejuani? Does Cleaver indicate that we'll see the return of Jayce? Does Cleaver replace Frozen Heart in some situations in Urgot's build?
Basically, how do you think Black Cleaver will affect the meta both on the professional level and on the solo queue level? Will there be a difference?
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people often went BC+LW anyway and they wanted hp and cdr so yeah they can get both now
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I think my skill has plateaued hard as soon as i hit plat 5/4, as just a general thought, what's the next step for improvement?
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How do you guys think the Black Cleaver changes will affect the old AD bruiser/early pressure junglers like Khazix, Rengar, Patheon, etc. who would often build Last Whisper at some point but also highly value CDR? It also seems relatively versatile because you can build Kindlegem and head either towards Aegis or Cleaver dependent on game situation. Also do you think we'll see even more Sion top/jungle heading toward Cinderhulk, Frozen Heart and Cleaver for solid health and defenses? Do you think that Cleaver is strong enough to bring back Rengar/Khazix/Reksai top or Khazix mid? Do you think we'll see junglers build Warrior into Cleaver or Cinderhulk into Cleaver instead of the heavy teamfighting tank focus we've seen with Gragas/Sejuani? Does Cleaver indicate that we'll see the return of Jayce? Does Cleaver replace Frozen Heart in some situations in Urgot's build?
Basically, how do you think Black Cleaver will affect the meta both on the professional level and on the solo queue level? Will there be a difference?
I will talk about the urgot part because thats the one I know the most/thought the most. I think BC is an awesome item on Urgot however I would always get manamune/fh before it potentially lw if you need damage, the new BC is aweful damage wise for urgot/assuming you are the main physical damage source, with double ad it might be a bit better for him the enemy tank needs about 3-400 armor for the new bc to reduce the armor further than the old one, even ignoring the 10 ad, surely it has other advantages like more hp and more cdr and the passive.
However the cdr isnt even that important for urgot, you already hit your important cutoff (about 22% cdr - depending on ping) for the 4 qs in one E so while more cdr is always great its not as good as before that point.
So get bc but not as your second item, on a different note why would you want to skip fh? the cookie cutter urgot build is: boots, manamune, fh, lw , bc some varying item probably mostly hexdrinker
I think my skill has plateaued hard as soon as i hit plat 5/4, as just a general thought, what's the next step for improvement?
find your mistakes, if you dont see them you cant fix them
Pro players have almost certainly already played all the champions. They don't have to continue to do it.
I highly doubt that thats actually true, while there are some who probably did that im fairly certain that a lot of pro players didnt play some of the champions, especially the newer ones
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On May 11 2015 01:51 SwizzY wrote:
I think my skill has plateaued hard as soon as i hit plat 5/4, as just a general thought, what's the next step for improvement?
I feel kinda the same way, but I feel it has more to do with my team mates being shit than myself plateauing. It's tougher to carry games when that one idiot on your team is just as bad as the one idiot was when you were in silver. Then you factor in your enemies are less likely to throw.
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@Ente, or other good ADC's: My last soloq game was one of those games where I felt like if I had played only slightly better we would have won, so I'd like some input.
I was playing Sivir with Soraka support against Kog + Morg. Morg was firing Q after Q after Q at raka, and eventually one hit and chunked her pretty hard. I felt like I should punish Morg for doing this, but I didn't really know how to without taking a lot of damage from Kog.
Eventually we came out of laning phase with about 10 cs behind, and having traded some kills because of jungler ganks.
Then, in teamfights, I got 3-shot by the enemy Rengar, who could literally kill me in 3 autos, although I think that that might have been my positioning as well, but I didn't really know where to stand without that happening, because as soon as a fight broke out everybody just charged into the enemy team, leaving me behind.
So, basically, what do I do in lane and what do I do in teamfights vs Rengar :p
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On May 11 2015 12:54 Sonnington wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2015 01:51 SwizzY wrote:
I think my skill has plateaued hard as soon as i hit plat 5/4, as just a general thought, what's the next step for improvement? I feel kinda the same way, but I feel it has more to do with my team mates being shit than myself plateauing. It's tougher to carry games when that one idiot on your team is just as bad as the one idiot was when you were in silver. Then you factor in your enemies are less likely to throw.
that's fairly unlikely to be the case lol
well, the way I improved around that elo was, just try to die less. It's really really hard to lose if you never die. Chances are your problem is more in the realm of too ham than in the realm of too passive. Try to see what it feels like to play like a pussy.
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If Rengar is "fed" (eh, he only needs Tiamat and Ghostblade for that till pretty late, and gods help you if he goes critlord with that 15%) and can combo you, there's basically nothing you can do. Maybe if you can spellshield his empQ you can avoid dying in (literally) under 1.5 second, but you usually need Flash, Heal, or both, just to not die, not even talking about killing him.
If your team doesn't make a conscious effort to handle Rengar for you (with stealth detection, and Exhaust or some kind of instant cc since his auto animation on Qs is non-existent), there's pretty much nothing you can do solo as a Marksman (I assume it works better for Vayne because instant stealth means you can only eat auto-Q or auto-empQ if you Tumble fast enough).
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On May 11 2015 18:19 Fildun wrote:
@Ente, or other good ADC's: My last soloq game was one of those games where I felt like if I had played only slightly better we would have won, so I'd like some input.
I was playing Sivir with Soraka support against Kog + Morg. Morg was firing Q after Q after Q at raka, and eventually one hit and chunked her pretty hard. I felt like I should punish Morg for doing this, but I didn't really know how to without taking a lot of damage from Kog.
Eventually we came out of laning phase with about 10 cs behind, and having traded some kills because of jungler ganks.
Then, in teamfights, I got 3-shot by the enemy Rengar, who could literally kill me in 3 autos, although I think that that might have been my positioning as well, but I didn't really know where to stand without that happening, because as soon as a fight broke out everybody just charged into the enemy team, leaving me behind.
So, basically, what do I do in lane and what do I do in teamfights vs Rengar :p
when you're playing with soraka you want to aggressively trade anytime you are in range of one of them but not both
soraka heals at a rate much more than her hp and you expect her to have lots of potions anyway, you basically are gonna stay full hp as long as you are trading more than 1:2 rate of damage dealt to taken you should be fine
doing nothing and then losing an allin is exactly what you dont want to do
you might want to buy oracles against rengar its only 250 gold CV is useless anyway and it could make the difference
most adcs are really reticent about trading because if you run closer to them you take more creep damage and generally have only lifesteal and 1 hp potion while supports have 3-4, its the opposite with soraka, soraka can't do anything except heal you so you want to trade and bully them out.
i mean a couple autos is all you need to come out ahead although kog does have longer range than you which sucks for you
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On May 11 2015 18:37 Alaric wrote:
If Rengar is "fed" (eh, he only needs Tiamat and Ghostblade for that till pretty late, and gods help you if he goes critlord with that 15%) and can combo you, there's basically nothing you can do. Maybe if you can spellshield his empQ you can avoid dying in (literally) under 1.5 second, but you usually need Flash, Heal, or both, just to not die, not even talking about killing him.
If your team doesn't make a conscious effort to handle Rengar for you (with stealth detection, and Exhaust or some kind of instant cc since his auto animation on Qs is non-existent), there's pretty much nothing you can do solo as a Marksman (I assume it works better for Vayne because instant stealth means you can only hit auto-Q or auto-empQ if you Tumble fast enough).
The guy had ghostblade, LW, hydra and the AD jungle item. It wasn't fun.
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I mean playing a no escape adc vs rengar when your team doesnt stay near you theres nothing you can really do but ask your team not to go so ham when rengar is missing and pop oracles when you have the team near you
it doesnt take doublelift to figure out that you can't do anything if you're left alone
if you have oracles you can ask soraka to drop a silence directly on top of you; since rengras jump will land him straight onto the silence he won't be able to use any skill until the root lands and then you can kill him from there with soraka healing the auto attack damage
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afaik, infinity edge first is the standard choice for most adc (there are expections: for example, vayne goes for botrk, corki for trinity). However, after seeing some pro builds, I saw that after b.f they take avarice sword very early in order to benefit from the passive gold. They then build ie, boots and statikk. This way avarice is worth 300-400 gold more!
Edit: I am an idiot... I was replying to a comment on page 1. lol
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@Ente, or other good ADC's: My last soloq game was one of those games where I felt like if I had played only slightly better we would have won, so I'd like some input.
I was playing Sivir with Soraka support against Kog + Morg. Morg was firing Q after Q after Q at raka, and eventually one hit and chunked her pretty hard. I felt like I should punish Morg for doing this, but I didn't really know how to without taking a lot of damage from Kog.
Eventually we came out of laning phase with about 10 cs behind, and having traded some kills because of jungler ganks.
Then, in teamfights, I got 3-shot by the enemy Rengar, who could literally kill me in 3 autos, although I think that that might have been my positioning as well, but I didn't really know where to stand without that happening, because as soon as a fight broke out everybody just charged into the enemy team, leaving me behind.
So, basically, what do I do in lane and what do I do in teamfights vs Rengar :p
There is nothing you can do vs a fed rengar at least if he oneshots you, ask your support to buy pinks and or/oracle if you would get an oracle that wouldnt do much because rengar jumps out of vision range the best tip I suppose is try to stay away and hope rengar oneshots your support and not you - it also really depends how this rengar is playing, good(fed) rengars kill you in less than 0.5 seconds if you have a bit more time you might survive by popping everything flash heal ult and maybe soraka can get her ultimate off after that, once you are alive rengar usually doesnt do too much (unless you fight in the jungle.. just dont)
Sivir is one of the worst laners for trading in the game, you have the low 500 range which is actually even with kogmaw without his w which means you cant even push him around at that time unlike other ads, and you obviously get outranged significantly once he activates it your best shot as sivir is try to farm some items, maybe get the bf sword and keep pushing waves out. Potentially ask your jungler for ganks which are fairly easy due to your ultimate (however having the soraka makes that a bit more difficult because she doesnt offer much backup for ganks)
While I didnt see the game I can tell you that thats a hard lane and every adc in the world hates facing rengar (and poppy, fuck poppy)
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Ok, so, top lane. I fucking hate it. I'm bad at it and I'm bad at playing melee champions in lane. I could really use some help with it.
So for instance, I was just playing Cassio top lane vs a smite/ignite Hecarim. I was bullying the lane no problem and then I get ganked at level 2/3. I killed Hecarim and luckily my mid and jungle show up to help kill amumu. So I get a double kill and back for a catalyst. So, w00t-w00t for me, I'm ahead and should be able to bully this nerd around no problem. And I did, I killed him under his tower once I got my ult. The problem was Amumu kept coming top and ganking me. So in this situation am I really supposed to just try to freeze/zone when I'm on my side of the river and let Hecarim farm on the other side? I guess the answer is yes, but how do I really push my 3 kill advantage in this situation?
I eventually took his tower and tried to roam around rather unsuccessfully. Hecarim took my tower in return for basically free. Regardless, it's that time of the game where it's a back and forth shove of the top lane when both towers are down. Hecarim would basically push the lane almost all the way to my tower without my team responding. I'd basically just have to push it back to the river and walk away or I'd potentially be ganked. I've been in this situation before. When you let a top laner push all the way to a tower. It forces someone to respond to the wave and it allows that top laner to roam around. What am I supposed to do? Damned if I do, damned if I don't. if I let Hecarim keep pushing and don't respond I lose a tower for free. If I deal with the wave I allow Hecarim to pressure other parts of the map. My team wouldn't respond to my "on the way" pings so in these times his roams were super effective.
After the third time of this bullshit I had enough of it and pushed slightly further than the river. I got 3 man ganked instantly and just barely got the 1 for 1 trade on Hecarim. Luckily my team cleaned up the rest and we got an ace. That's such a shitty unreliable way to deal with that situation though. I can't expect to trade 1 for 1 in a 1v3 all the time.
All I really needed was Xin to come top lane once, combo Hecarim to set me up and force him to blow his ult or get chunked heavily. Just to teach him to stop pushing up to my tower so he can't control the map.
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Why not just put wards?
xin can't really do anything against hecarim if the lane is warded you have no reliably cc and hecarim is too fast for xin to chase down, its really up to you to stop him from pushing the wave and not get ganked
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run tp, clear waves up to their tower, respond to hecarim roams.
and yeah once you're ahead you can afford wards to make sure amumu or anyone else shouldn't be able to punish you for playing aggressively. Double kill early is an extra 600g at least. If you spent only half of that on wards that would be 4 wards. Then you can play aggressively when noone is close, forcing them to respond and ping the shit out of dragon.
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EPT
