EPTSiege is safe and consistent. I rate 8/8 would run again every game.
Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 61
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InvaderUK
225 Posts
Siege is safe and consistent. I rate 8/8 would run again every game. | ||
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Sonnington
United States1107 Posts
On May 26 2015 06:59 sob3k wrote: bad example, Zac is actually a fantastic ball delivery My point is he's not as good as Lee Sin, not that he's Rumble level bad as a ball delivery system. | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On May 27 2015 01:41 Sonnington wrote: My point is he's not as good as Lee Sin, not that he's Rumble level bad as a ball delivery system. Zac isn't as good as lee sin at ball delivery he is better.As lee you have to land a lower ranged skillshot on a backline champ while with zac you just straight up jump and are more useful after said ori ult.Lee is good at only at delivering shit to you with his kick. | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
On May 27 2015 04:21 nafta wrote: Zac isn't as good as lee sin at ball delivery he is better.As lee you have to land a lower ranged skillshot on a backline champ while with zac you just straight up jump and are more useful after said ori ult.Lee is good at only at delivering shit to you with his kick. Yeah, this is correct. The problem is that Zac is generally just a pretty bad champion, but as far as synergy with Orianna goes, he's close to #1. Don't you remember the terror of pre-nerf Zac top+Orianna mid, Sonnington? :p | ||
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Sonnington
United States1107 Posts
Yeah, Zac top was pretty ridiculous in season 3. Although I don't remember Zac top, Orianna mid being a must have combo for any teams at the time. Care sharing some vods? | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Yorbon
Netherlands4272 Posts
I play dr. mundo mainly, and the laning fase is quite easy: you farm, throw some cleavers, or both at the same time, don't die (to ganks), until you become really tanky. Keep in mind that I'm level 20, and you can assume both me and my teammates to be really bad. After the laning fase, things feel much harder, especially teamfighting. That's what my question is about. Most guides on tanks in teamfights seem to focus on protecting your damagedealers and initiating fights. I (think I) do have an idea of how to do the first, but the second, according to those guids, seems to rely on some form of (hard-)cc which mundo kind of lacks. And when I seem to charge in, my team doesn't seem to follow, so I just die. The question is: how do I initiate team fights with dr. mundo compared to others tanks? Should I really hold back relatively? Or am I just not good enough at seizing opportunities yet? | ||
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MidnightGladius
China1214 Posts
I'm sure our more experienced top laners can provide more of a detailed response  | ||
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Yorbon
Netherlands4272 Posts
The cleavers are core part of my play already, there isn't a time when I'm not throwing them, as it costs basically no health, and has short cooldown. When watching game 2 of the msi finals just now, I saw koro use the righteous glory active to engage very aggressively. Would that be an idea on mundo as well? I can imagine I could relatively quickly get into a backline, for example. Although mundo doesn't benefit from the mana, I think it's stats are still pretty good for it's cost. | ||
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Before level 30 people tend to only group mid or scatter everywhere and keep fighting, though (much like soloQ). | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23468 Posts
In a regular fight you want to kill the damage with the highest damage per health if he's in range and if he's staying out of the fight you just hit someone else and then fight is 5v4 until he tries to go in and then you can cleaver and then run in and auto+burn damage him. Mundo can't really initiate a fight front on so you either go in from behind or just poke them and set up a teammate to cc someone and then you can run in and force an engage from them or they lose a teammate. tl;dr go ham on the carries or zone them from the fight while killing someone else. | ||
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InvaderUK
225 Posts
On June 01 2015 14:11 Yorbon wrote: When watching game 2 of the msi finals just now, I saw koro use the righteous glory active to engage very aggressively. Would that be an idea on mundo as well? I can imagine I could relatively quickly get into a backline, for example. Although mundo doesn't benefit from the mana, I think it's stats are still pretty good for it's cost. Mundo isn't really an engage style tank. You don't have any hard CC to lock down priority targets reliably and it's why you see him played less in competitive play at the moment. RG is a great item in general but you're wasting money on mana, and it doesn't fit mundo's playstyle. Mundo scales well on HP so buildwise you'd go core Randidins -> Spirit Visage against 1ap, and vice versa vs double ap. If it's only 1 ap carry you continue stacking the shit out of armor items, thormail, armor boots, more randidins. Double ap you can pick up a locket or BV in between depending if they have killer CC or not, prefer locket because it has better stats. Don't hard engage or flank a 5v5 straightaway, that's actually exactly what the enemy team would want if you are on even terms. One of mundo's advantages is that he has strong poke for a top laner in this meta, the more Qs you can get in before a fight breaks out, the more chance you have to win it. The smart thing for a team who wants to fight against you to do would be to just hard engage immediately before you can land any poke. You want to get your team to position over an objective, and poke down anyone you can approaching you. If you can get like more than 4 or 5 Q's in I think that's good but I don't play Mundo so you'll have to figure out the number where you can safely engage. Their team will eventually come to a point where they are forced to engage or back off, either are fine. In the engagement you have to modes: stop and go. At the start when they are engaging, you just Q their diver (whoever going for your carry) so your carries can get free dmg on them. As soon as either they reach your carry, or their carries are in range to dmg you, whatever comes first. You switch to go mode. Grats your carries don't exist to you anymore RIP, ignore them and make a beeline to their backline. Before 25mins focus ap carry -> ad, after that you focus ad carry -> ap. adcs are useless before 25 mins anyway and aps have less mobility. activate your ult if you need ms or get low. tl;dr poke as much beforehand then take a steamy shit on their carries. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23468 Posts
I would never go banshee on mundo you already have a lot of free sustain and cc reduction and you probably can't get focused down anyway, and if you can they can easily pop bveil shield. Generally fed mages get void staff anyway so anything past mercs+spirit visage is probably too much since the more hp you stack the less of a viable target you are for most APs anyway (using burst on a mundo when it wont help you kill him is sort of a waste unless you're way too deep) Going smite with cinderhulk is probably good too if you use smite to get extra farm but the safe option is just flash teleport and get regular items. I think mundo is probably underrated a little because theres so many super strong top laners (gnar and maokai both do %hp damage, which is good gainst mundo hecarim with a ferrari just kills ppl every time tp is up) he's probably not bad at all. | ||
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Yorbon
Netherlands4272 Posts
Friends whom I play with mostly said something in the line of "tanks should just go in", which didn't really give any information at all (and in the case of mundo, seems to be dead wrong, reading your posts). | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
But yeah Sunfire is pretty good for additional non-negligible damage, although it feels like it falls off later on. The first item I'd get rid of over Randuin's/Face for sure, but only if I'm already 6-slotted. Another issue of Mundo is that he's much more farm dependant than the off laners you mentioned Teut. He needs level 6 and at least 2 items before he really starts doing his job properly, so it's not too easy for him to make plays with TP early on and he's a very passive laner whereas Gnar, Hecarim, heck even Maokai in some match-ups, are all lane bullies. He doesn't assist ganks as well too. Edit: Mundo isn't that great at "just going in" because the overwhelming majority of his damage is magical anyway, often from cleavers. Sure if you can get on a squishy before he builds defensive stats/lifesteal your autos empowered by E will quickly finish what your cleavers started, but you can do that at range, and going too deep where you'll get focused down doesn't bring you that much additional damage actually. (Same in lane, Mundo manfighting people will basically lose every trade, it's just his ult mitigates it. That's why you want to hit cleavers and go on them only once they're "softened" because you won't do that much additional damage while you're opening yourself to full retaliation (+ W health cost).) | ||
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InvaderUK
225 Posts
Ye cinderhulk mundo confirmed OP. I don't know why people run that trash flash. This meta has a lot of sustained mages like cass + azir so I think two MR items there is good. You're right about burst mages. Ye he's good but there are better champs. EDIT: I'll play like 8 games of mundo at the end of the week and decide if i change my mind about anything. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23468 Posts
On June 02 2015 00:14 Alaric wrote: I'd argue you still want more MR if you're against a good Liandry's user, Cassiopeia, Karthus, or maybe Vlad, because their %health damage will wreck you otherwise. Same with Kog. But yeah Sunfire is pretty good for additional non-negligible damage, although it feels like it falls off later on. The first item I'd get rid of over Randuin's/Face for sure, but only if I'm already 6-slotted. Another issue of Mundo is that he's much more farm dependant than the off laners you mentioned Teut. He needs level 6 and at least 2 items before he really starts doing his job properly, so it's not too easy for him to make plays with TP early on and he's a very passive laner whereas Gnar, Hecarim, heck even Maokai in some match-ups, are all lane bullies. He doesn't assist ganks as well too. Edit: Mundo isn't that great at "just going in" because the overwhelming majority of his damage is magical anyway, often from cleavers. Sure if you can get on a squishy before he builds defensive stats/lifesteal your autos empowered by E will quickly finish what your cleavers started, but you can do that at range, and going too deep where you'll get focused down doesn't bring you that much additional damage actually. (Same in lane, Mundo manfighting people will basically lose every trade, it's just his ult mitigates it. That's why you want to hit cleavers and go on them only once they're "softened" because you won't do that much additional damage while you're opening yourself to full retaliation (+ W health cost).) I think you're heavily underestimating the damage mundos W and E auto with a sunfire do.200 damage an auto about every second and over 100 magic damage a second on a 1500 hp adc who isn't going to lifesteal much on a high armour target. The reason mundo trades poorly in lane is because all his skills have such a high health cost you're basically spamming ignite on yourself and still trying to fight. Thats why you get a high health base before worrying about resists for teamfights; hp is already way more cost effective than buying two sets of resists for ehp (about 3k hp you want some resists, 4k hp you want about 200 only) and when you're dealing self true damage and regening based on max hp it becomes even more skewed. (The advantage of resists are being able to weight toward one damage type and healing being more effective on a target with more durable hp) | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
I still agree that flat HP is generally better on Mundo, just pointing out that it's not because of his passive or ult being %HP-based (although the fact that his ult's total heal is massive is enough to let you more or less forego MR against fed burst mages, so you'd rather pile the "freed up" ressources in HP than just armour). | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23468 Posts
On June 02 2015 00:35 Alaric wrote: A regen on %HP actually makes HP as valuable as resists (see Vi, Malphite, Maokai). "Flat" sustain (eg. lifesteal and stuff like that) is better for resistances because it doesn't interact with your HP normally. I still agree that flat HP is generally better on Mundo, just pointing out that it's not because of his passive or ult being %HP-based (although the fact that his ult's total heal is massive is enough to let you more or less forego MR against fed burst mages, so you'd rather pile the "freed up" ressources in HP than just armour). the point is hp is already a lot better for pure ehp than resists but the fact that %hp regens as well with resists and with hp and you have a large true damage cost to yourself means you probably want 3.5kish hp for 100/100 resists and before sticking to the general rule of 1k hp per 100 resists e.g hecarim wants a lot of resist because he heals a flat amount on W, irelia heals on W and R etc | ||
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