On Mundo, I'll generally go something like cinderhulk > ninja tabi /spirit visage, warmogs or randuins > thornmail. If you're a sucker and take flash top, then I guess you can get sunfire.

InvaderUK

225 Posts

June 02 2015 13:25 GMT

#1226

http://matchhistory.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/EUW1/2135717704/23746388?tab=overview

i did my first game of mundo just gave free lane was down in cs, then got dived for tower kill by jungler. We behind in gold all game but mundo gives such objective control look at dat shit. Played teamfights as expected, just sat and zoned carries while vayne dumped on everyone, was harder because my priority was to zone yasuo and he can just jump through the team since mundo has no CC so that weakness was already abused in the first game LOL rekt.

i forgot to get cinder first so i coulda just jungled instead of getting dove at turret at 13min zz, gave myself can sir there.

will continue mundo after this promo series.

Luepert

United States1934 Posts

June 15 2015 05:48 GMT

#1227

Can someone tell me why cinderhulk toplaners like fizz and hecarim build frozen heart? Wouldn't Randuins be much better? My reasoning is that it gives a bit less armor, but the 500 health synergizes hugely with the cinderhulk passive and aslo has the bonus of making you more tanky against the magic damage dealers. Is the attack speed slow really that much better than the moveent speed slow to justify this?

GolemMadness

Canada11044 Posts

June 15 2015 06:41 GMT

#1228

Because frozen heart gives 20% CDR and they are champions that need CDR.

geript

10024 Posts

June 15 2015 13:49 GMT

#1229

It's not just that. It's the fact that you generally want to end up around the CDR cap as most champions (except most ADC). So Frozen Heart and Spirit Visage give you 30% CDR, provide the AS debuff aura, provide tanky stats (armor/mr) while still leaving your build order open. You can go into early Homeguard via Ninja Tabi or Merc Treads if you need a bit more immediate impact; you can build Specter's Cowl and Glacial Shroud and then build in response to the enemy team. Additionally, the 400 mana you get from FH is nice so that you don't have to recall as often and lets you seige longer.

Slayer91

Ireland23469 Posts

June 15 2015 18:25 GMT

#1230

frozen heart with cdr/lvl and the 4 points in offensive gives max cdr

sob3k

United States7572 Posts

June 15 2015 20:18 GMT

#1231

On June 15 2015 14:48 Luepert wrote:
Can someone tell me why cinderhulk toplaners like fizz and hecarim build frozen heart? Wouldn't Randuins be much better? My reasoning is that it gives a bit less armor, but the 500 health synergizes hugely with the cinderhulk passive and aslo has the bonus of making you more tanky against the magic damage dealers. Is the attack speed slow really that much better than the moveent speed slow to justify this?

FH is also just a absurdly cost efficient item, even completely ignoring the mana and the aura its over 100% gold efficiency. Even with cinderhulk its still more efficient than randuins.

It also gives you a permanent 3% damage reduction aura because of oppression defensive mastery.

tw!tch

United States563 Posts

June 18 2015 15:11 GMT

#1232

Does anyone know a good resource to learn more about lane swapping? I see it all the time, but I've never seen it fully explained, and I'd like to know more about what's actually happening strategically

Slayer91

Ireland23469 Posts

June 18 2015 17:30 GMT

#1233

one team feels their lane(s) are at a disadvantage and so they laneswap to level

e.g avoid a bad 2v2, avoid a bad 1v1, or sometimes pick into a good 1v2/2v1 (e.g if they pick darius or something who might 1v1 well but 1v2 badly while mundo might do better 1v2 than darius). Also junglers and botlanes who can dive well or harass really well 2v1 are better in laneswaps

you can either zone in the 2v1 lane or take the tower early and swap back with a teamwide gold lead

disadvantage is you lose dragon control but its pretty minor

tw!tch

United States563 Posts

June 18 2015 18:19 GMT

#1234

+ Show Spoiler +

On June 19 2015 02:30 Slayer91 wrote:
one team feels their lane(s) are at a disadvantage and so they laneswap to level

e.g avoid a bad 2v2, avoid a bad 1v1, or sometimes pick into a good 1v2/2v1 (e.g if they pick darius or something who might 1v1 well but 1v2 badly while mundo might do better 1v2 than darius). Also junglers and botlanes who can dive well or harass really well 2v1 are better in laneswaps

you can either zone in the 2v1 lane or take the tower early and swap back with a teamwide gold lead

disadvantage is you lose dragon control but its pretty minor

That's super helpful, thanks

I wonder if anyone has written any guides to popular laneswaps or if it is all 'feel'

Slayer91

Ireland23469 Posts

June 18 2015 19:11 GMT

#1235

It's almost never in solo q because its boring as fuck but its always happening in LCS so just watch any games.
Laneswap depends on like 4 players so because there's so many combinations its best to take it case by case.

brokenwatch

Azerbaijan99 Posts

June 19 2015 13:31 GMT

#1236

geript

10024 Posts

June 20 2015 04:48 GMT

#1237

Lane swaps happen for a variety of reasons. The first is to avoid a rough early laning phase. Corki pre-6, Vayne, Sivir and others have some rough early matchups. So it can be worthwhile to get them early safe farm. A second reason is to utilize a fast push strategy. This is where you're looking to get the top and bottom outer turrets for an early gold advantage to accelerate into the midgame. This was pretty common with jinx and still is with tristana to ideally break down all 3 outer turrets before dragon 2 is taken. A third reason is to create an gold/experience difference for a specific lane. This is more common with smite top laners or some tanks with decent wave clear (Hecarim, Shyvana, Maokai, etc). This allows your top laner and jungler to do a quicker first clear, opens your jungler up for quicker ganks while still getting 2-3 waves of farm post TP. A fourth reason can be to open your support to roam and pressure mid more. In the case of like Annie, Thresh, etc, you get the opportunity to snowball a lane despite flash. A fifth reason can be gold denial. Rumble can farm some with E and is effective on low gold due to build. Whereas Hecarim is far worse with little farm and can't farm well at range. A sixth reason is to punish less experienced teams and players. Creating a dive situation (usually on the top laner) especially after they burn TP can deny 2-4 waves of experience and gold while letting you chip down towers. If you don't lane swap much and aren't trained in what to be careful of, you can fall behind in multiple lanes quickly. Seventh, Lane swapping can be really effective with a Smite/TP top and a counter jungler (Nunu, Reksai, Lee Sin, etc) because you can increase vision and gold by constantly stealing enemy camps. Eighth, lane swaps can allow you to harass the enemy jungler early to delay his ability to farm with the potential to 3-buff people. There's probably another ten reasons for Lane swapping.

geript

10024 Posts

June 21 2015 21:27 GMT

#1238

Today's game of TSM vs Gravity was pretty typical of how a lane swap can affect mid. Lustboy got to roam mid a few times to help kill(steal) Keene. So while a lane swap may not seem to affect mid, it has large possibility for affecting mid more than you might think.

brokenwatch

Azerbaijan99 Posts

June 23 2015 10:30 GMT

#1239

geript

10024 Posts

July 16 2015 09:43 GMT

#1240

Did anyone else watch the SKT vs Koo game? I'm curious on Faker's Azir build. Nashor's -> Zhonya's. Zhonya's second makes a bunch of sense situationally because SKT was really ahead and gives better dive potential. But is Nashor's first really a thing on Azir? Is this just Faker being Faker? Is this a matchup specific thing versus Kassadin? Usually I thought he was Morrello's or Athene's first to fill AP/CDR/Mregen. I'm just curious what that build option gives.
Edit: to add. I'm pretty sure that 5.13 doesn't hit Korea until next week too. So Nashor's isn't 80AP/40ASP/20/CDR. I'm not even sure new Nashor's is statistically better than old Nashor's on Azir.