EPTSimple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 4
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olabaz
United States298 Posts
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nosliw
United States2716 Posts
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On February 21 2013 06:20 nosliw wrote: why has alistar fallen out of favor? I thought he got buffed recently? He used to be very strong in the jungle. These bans caused him to not be played as a support. Eventually due to the strength of his jungle he received a number of nerfs to his mana costs, his ability to clear creeps with his passive trample damage, and the range of his w was reduced by 50. With the changes in S3 towards less AoE oriented junglers these nerfs essentially ended his ability to effectively farm the jungle at all and being able to farm the jungle is more important now. The only buff that he received recently was a revert of the 50 range nerf on his w. However he is still not able to effectively play in the jungle since he cannot clear creeps fast enough without using abilities, can't use abilities on creeps or he will be OOM when ganking, and doesn't have a strong itemization path(he doesn't get enough MP/5 to farm jungle creeps with abilities from Spirit Stone, doesn't have attack speed to make effective use of razor, Sheen doesn't provide enough damage anymore to effectively clear...) These are generally the reasons he isn't in the jungle anymore despite health/CDR itemization being much easier to come by and him liking those two stats very much. Likely why he is not seen supporting as much is because people have forgotten about him in the support role due to not playing him. | ||
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Ente
Germany1795 Posts
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5775 Posts
I mean, if I use an ability it charges and (apparently) goes on its 3 cd cooldown, but I can use a second (sometimes third) ability in quick succession charging it a second or third time before the "real" cd kicks in. Is there any explanation on this? | ||
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NpG)Explosive
France994 Posts
Is nami worth learning/playing regularly? I play soloQ mostly. | ||
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Phunkapotamus
United States496 Posts
On February 21 2013 08:48 Sbrubbles wrote: Question: Is the tear of the goddess bugged in regards to the 3 cd cooldown on its mana charge? I mean, if I use an ability it charges and (apparently) goes on its 3 cd cooldown, but I can use a second (sometimes third) ability in quick succession charging it a second or third time before the "real" cd kicks in. Is there any explanation on this? Working as intended. The first cooldown can be interrupted by another ability causing a 2nd, hard cooldown. | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On February 21 2013 08:48 Sbrubbles wrote: Question: Is the tear of the goddess bugged in regards to the 3 cd cooldown on its mana charge? I mean, if I use an ability it charges and (apparently) goes on its 3 cd cooldown, but I can use a second (sometimes third) ability in quick succession charging it a second or third time before the "real" cd kicks in. Is there any explanation on this? Tear builds up a charge every 3 seconds, which can be used every second. It can get up to three charges. This is easily verifiable by looking at how tear ticks when using someone who continually uses mana, like singed IIRC this is also how Manamune and Archangel work as well Edit: Alistar has low damage early compared to other supports? Really? I mean, its not level 3 leona damage but its still pretty good. | ||
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ChaoSbringer
Australia1382 Posts
On February 21 2013 10:15 Phunkapotamus wrote: Its so characters who use numerous spells to burst don't have wasted casts that don't count.Working as intended. The first cooldown can be interrupted by another ability causing a 2nd, hard cooldown. | ||
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Ente
Germany1795 Posts
Alistar has low damage early compared to other supports? Really? I mean, its not level 3 leona damage but its still pretty good. pretty good compared to what? Thresh? no he has way more with his q Zyra? not even close Sona? nope etc etc. There are some champs who also have low(ish) dmg Soraka (unless you skill q which some ppl actually do) Janna but both are not really played and have other advantages | ||
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RouaF
France4120 Posts
On February 21 2013 01:32 olabaz wrote: How to lane vs Kayle bot lane. I've played cait and vayne and I get raped really hard. Kayle bot is pretty weak because she can't spam that E. Just stay away from her when she tries to come and nuke you with Q+E and you'll outlast her. This will be way easier to do with cait than with vayne of course. If she has infinite mana thanks to soraka you'll prolly need to allin them, do it after they have used their cooldowns. | ||
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Evilmonkey.
United States1628 Posts
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On February 21 2013 18:21 Ente wrote: pretty good compared to what? Thresh? no he has way more with his q Zyra? not even close Sona? nope etc etc. There are some champs who also have low(ish) dmg Soraka (unless you skill q which some ppl actually do) Janna but both are not really played and have other advantages Alistar gets two free auto attacks in with his combo by default. Q,aa,w,aa. Compared to taric he has an early damage advantage because of the extra time he has to auto attack after a w,q combo (or a flash, q,aa,w,aa combo) before shatter has enough shred (and the ADC's have enough physical damage/resets) to amplify the ADC's damage above the raw auto attack damage advantage. While trample damage is small, it will still add up as well. Taric's level 3 combo does roughly 140-180+ auto attack damage. Whereas Alistar's is 173+auto's at minimum. So we are at similar damage levels here with a slight advantage due to the gap closer. Sona has very strong, but its not comparable to the damage that Alistar puts out. Sona for instance, at level 3 has about 176+auto damage on a q+powerchord at which point she is down to auto attacks roughly for the rest of the fight. Alistar has 173 + auto damage on his w,q combo and bonus auto attacks and trample ticks if he can q,aa,w,aa. Sona's damage being high relies on the enemy not being able to engage. Zyra, like Sona requires the enemy to not be able to respond for her damage to be high. At level 3 her maximum damage is 135 + plant damage + AA's so her plants have to do 40 damage in order to be on similar grounds to an Alistar or Taric engage which while definitely do-able can also be avoided. If plants can be avoided at all, her damage is very low. Thresh does have very good damage in a full combo, 145 + .8 extra auto attacks + auto attacks for a full AA, q,e combo. But his auto attack damage is very low, so after he has run his combo(or missed any aspect of it) he is at a disadvantage. Is there something I am missing that makes his damage so low? Because everything that I see indicates that his damage is comparable to everyone but Leona (265+auto attack level 3 damage!) while also having an amazing amount of peel and hard engage (maximum 2.5 seconds of chain CC) and a small but non ignorable amount of sustain | ||
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On February 21 2013 05:47 olabaz wrote: I played against an AD kayle and an AP Kayle with support lux and I could barely CS. QQ to ur jangler and mebbe he come gonk for u. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On February 22 2013 06:20 Goumindong wrote: Alistar gets two free auto attacks in with his combo by default. Q,aa,w,aa. Compared to taric he has an early damage advantage because of the extra time he has to auto attack after a w,q combo (or a flash, q,aa,w,aa combo) before shatter has enough shred (and the ADC's have enough physical damage/resets) to amplify the ADC's damage above the raw auto attack damage advantage. While trample damage is small, it will still add up as well. Taric's level 3 combo does roughly 140-180+ auto attack damage. Whereas Alistar's is 173+auto's at minimum. So we are at similar damage levels here with a slight advantage due to the gap closer. Sona has very strong, but its not comparable to the damage that Alistar puts out. Sona for instance, at level 3 has about 176+auto damage on a q+powerchord at which point she is down to auto attacks roughly for the rest of the fight. Alistar has 173 + auto damage on his w,q combo and bonus auto attacks and trample ticks if he can q,aa,w,aa. Sona's damage being high relies on the enemy not being able to engage. Zyra, like Sona requires the enemy to not be able to respond for her damage to be high. At level 3 her maximum damage is 135 + plant damage + AA's so her plants have to do 40 damage in order to be on similar grounds to an Alistar or Taric engage which while definitely do-able can also be avoided. If plants can be avoided at all, her damage is very low. Thresh does have very good damage in a full combo, 145 + .8 extra auto attacks + auto attacks for a full AA, q,e combo. But his auto attack damage is very low, so after he has run his combo(or missed any aspect of it) he is at a disadvantage. Is there something I am missing that makes his damage so low? Because everything that I see indicates that his damage is comparable to everyone but Leona (265+auto attack level 3 damage!) while also having an amazing amount of peel and hard engage (maximum 2.5 seconds of chain CC) and a small but non ignorable amount of sustain When alistar combos onto someone, he's ALL IN. Sona can drop that Q/Chord without committing, which isn't really comparable. Compare other MELEE supports when you're looking at a melee support's damage. Taric's level 3 combo is 180+ autos on top of an armor shred which the ADC will benefit from significantly. | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On February 22 2013 10:52 sylverfyre wrote: When alistar combos onto someone, he's ALL IN. Sona can drop that Q/Chord without committing, which isn't really comparable. Compare other MELEE supports when you're looking at a melee support's damage. Taric's level 3 combo is 180+ autos on top of an armor shred which the ADC will benefit from significantly. Tarics level 3 combo is 180 only if he initiates it standing on top of the person. (otherwise its 140+) If the gap close grants Alistair a single extra auto attack of damage on his unclensable CC then he is ahead of Taric even with the armor shred. Would anyone claim taric is a "low damage support early" edit: Alistar picked 3 of 4 games in Week 3 Day 1 LCS | ||
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Sedzz
Australia391 Posts
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YouGotNothin
United States907 Posts
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Vequeth
United Kingdom1116 Posts
On February 22 2013 13:54 Sedzz wrote: As an ADC when should I be leaving my lane to buy? When you are at low health with no potions left and its getting dangerous (such as no wards). OR A shoved wave after when the enemy bot lane has backed. | ||
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Ente
Germany1795 Posts
edit: Alistar picked 3 of 4 games in Week 3 Day 1 LCS yep and I have no idea why, he didnt do anything. Alistars dmg is stupidly hard to hit. you shouldnt be able to walk up while others have long range stuff, either autoattacks or something like tarics stun. Other low range supports have way better all in (leona or hell even jarvan) and btw how the heck did you do your calculation with the dmg? Ali has 55 on w 60 on q (if we asume a 1-1-1 build which is the best for ali) Taric has minimum of 40 (most likely more) on e and 60 on w so we have 15 dmg advantage for Ali vs armorshred + armoraura (dont forget that) for taric. Ofc we have ali passive but that will not really procc a lot + more autoattack dmg from taric (more base ad). And yes a lvl 3 Taric isnt that beastly in damage and that is a time where ali might be close. But if we look at lvl 6. We have alis wq combo doing 210 dmg (asumed 3-1-1-1 build) his passive does 9! dps. He will have around ~130 autoattack dmg though (with ult activated) Now we take a lvl 6 Taric we have: 190 dmg on w e (min dmg on e and 1-3-1-1 build) + 20 armor shred Tarics ult does 150 dmg + gives 30 ad/ap for you 15 ad/ap for your ad (could increase the w dmg to be honest by 18 due to the normal e-r-w combo) so w e combo does 208 dmg (remember we assumed lowest possible dmg on e) So now we have Alistars autoattacks + 9 dps passive vs 20 armor shred 150 dmg ult and the ad/ap buff + its harder for Alistar to hit his stuff. There is a reason we dont really see Alistar since a while One more thing to alistars dmg. As you already stated Leona does way more dmg then anyone else, why? Because she HAS to with her engage. Is she a top pick support? No she isnt because she is just insanly risky to play. Alistar has the same risky playstyle just with half the dmg. Someone like Sona might not have way more allin potential (well I actually just calculated she does 230 dmg just with 1 q and poweraccord at lvl 3 that is more then alistar does lvl 6) but you can guarantee that she will autoattack way more and is less all in. As an ADC when should I be leaving my lane to buy? So basically you dont want to be in lane if your opponent comes back with new items. Sometimes you have to back earlier because you might lose your lane too hard. Does getting executed end a killing spree? no | ||
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