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On May 14 2018 02:26 evilfatsh1t wrote:
when people refer to "snowball mechanics" that once existed in lol but have now disappeared, what are they referring to?
ive been thinking about what changes would be necessary that would allow 1 player to carry a shit team to "balance" the current consensus that 1 player can lose you a game but 1 player can not win you a game.
there has to be something that acts as a solution because in dota it is possible to literally 1v5 the game (at least it was last i played back in 2014.)
old assassin kits not allowing any counterplay, e.g. hypermobile kassadin with his silence
ability resets (can't come up with any example now but I think some resets were removed in the past)
flat armor pen
wards and vision denial like oracle's elixir costing lots of gold
dragons giving global gold
sword of occult
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Snowballing still exist, it just doesn't mean that two kills in lane = gg.
Before they took actions against snowballing you could hard carry on just about any champion in the game since you could snowball so hard you'd be miles ahead of everyone else. Now you actually need to be on a hard carry.
Certain champions can still easily if they get ahead of the curve run away with the game all on their own, this is usual champions that scale very well and the early influx of gold make them bypass their somewhat weak phase - that or they have items they spike very hard on (read: Triforce/Duskblade). Give a champion like Yi, Graves or Vayne three early kills and you might as well /ff at 15 if it's an OTP.
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First Blood gold nerfs, increase in ambient gold, and increased radius to xp range were big imo.
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On May 14 2018 02:36 Sent. wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2018 02:26 evilfatsh1t wrote:
when people refer to "snowball mechanics" that once existed in lol but have now disappeared, what are they referring to?
ive been thinking about what changes would be necessary that would allow 1 player to carry a shit team to "balance" the current consensus that 1 player can lose you a game but 1 player can not win you a game.
there has to be something that acts as a solution because in dota it is possible to literally 1v5 the game (at least it was last i played back in 2014.) old assassin kits not allowing any counterplay, e.g. hypermobile kassadin with his silence ability resets (can't come up with any example now but I think some resets were removed in the past) flat armor pen wards and vision denial like oracle's elixir costing lots of gold dragons giving global gold sword of occult
i would have thought no-counterplay champions are part of the problem.
a big thing in dota that allows a pro to 1v5 is the fact that you cant delete someone as easily in dota. skills do much less damage and there is so much reliance on auto attacks that kill attempts have to be well coordinated. a pro is just so much better at understanding how to orchestrate kills or prevent coordination.
what i thought was one of the problems in lol is that you could put a bronze player on a 10-0 lb and he could kill faker. its so easy to kill people as long as youre fed enough, because skill becomes less relevant when 1 of your buttons is equivalent to 3 of your opponents.
it seems previously in lol the "solution" was, get fed quicker and snowball. rather than rewarding a player for being able to outplay your opponent at all stages of the game (macro aspects included), the game chooses to heavily reward the player with better damage calculation and quicker fingers
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That's not a very good argument, because you need to consider how the player got to 10-0 in the first place. You can't just consider vacuum cases and argue them, because Faker would never go 0-10 in lane vs a bronze. Saying it takes no skill to kill someone when that fed is sort of a paradox, because how did you get that fed in the first place. Yeah, Dota is different, but I'm pretty sure when someone is that fed there is little counterplay when they try to kill someone as well, it's just slower. And LB is a bad example, because I agree with the zero-counterplay problem, she's cancer to play against and I legit can't believe Riot reverted her for that very reason.
Snowballing still exist, it just doesn't mean that two kills in lane = gg.
Snowballing has become more of a team oriented activity. The reward for stomping your lane over and over again is low, in comparison to roaming the map and securing other objectives. That is why rushing down towers is worth it, there was a time a few seasons ago where getting ahead in lane meant endlessly freezing the lane, until you had your major items and could go team fight. TP also became meta, although that's been around for a very long time now.
I could also talk about how snowballing in bot lane used to be harder because of itemization (BT first), and that meta picks were all bursty (Corki, Graves, Ezreal). This meant that getting ahead in lane made it impossible to even go for cs because you'd get insta chunked for half or more of your HP, and didn't have the sustain to recover. Champs like Lucian and the original BotRK meta (when there was no sustain in the mastery tree) had similar problems.
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On May 15 2018 07:12 DarkCore wrote:That's not a very good argument, because you need to consider how the player got to 10-0 in the first place. You can't just consider vacuum cases and argue them, because Faker would never go 0-10 in lane vs a bronze. Saying it takes no skill to kill someone when that fed is sort of a paradox, because how did you get that fed in the first place. Yeah, Dota is different, but I'm pretty sure when someone is that fed there is little counterplay when they try to kill someone as well, it's just slower. And LB is a bad example, because I agree with the zero-counterplay problem, she's cancer to play against and I legit can't believe Riot reverted her for that very reason. Snowballing has become more of a team oriented activity. The reward for stomping your lane over and over again is low, in comparison to roaming the map and securing other objectives. That is why rushing down towers is worth it, there was a time a few seasons ago where getting ahead in lane meant endlessly freezing the lane, until you had your major items and could go team fight. TP also became meta, although that's been around for a very long time now. I could also talk about how snowballing in bot lane used to be harder because of itemization (BT first), and that meta picks were all bursty (Corki, Graves, Ezreal). This meant that getting ahead in lane made it impossible to even go for cs because you'd get insta chunked for half or more of your HP, and didn't have the sustain to recover. Champs like Lucian and the original BotRK meta (when there was no sustain in the mastery tree) had similar problems.
the faker argument wasnt meant to be taken literally. no shit youre not going to find a bronze player whos 10-0 when faker is on the enemy team. the analogy is meant to describe how a better player can get absolutely dumpstered by a shit player because your shit teammates fed.
the thing you dont understand with dota is that it isnt the same as lol at all. aside from a couple specific scenarios (shadowfiend with blink/euls 15mins into the game etc.), its much easier to make a mistake in the execution and there is a lot of room for outplay by the guy trying to run away. abusing fog, tp, item usage or simply just cc and running are all extremely common methods of escape and the onus falls onto the attacker to eliminate all of those possibilities. the better the player the higher the chances that he can ruin the execution of the attacker and survive the encounter. couple this with better knowledge and execution of the macro aspect of the game and you have yourself a game thats stalling out and the losing team slowly catching up. this just doesnt happen in lol
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On May 15 2018 17:04 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2018 07:12 DarkCore wrote:That's not a very good argument, because you need to consider how the player got to 10-0 in the first place. You can't just consider vacuum cases and argue them, because Faker would never go 0-10 in lane vs a bronze. Saying it takes no skill to kill someone when that fed is sort of a paradox, because how did you get that fed in the first place. Yeah, Dota is different, but I'm pretty sure when someone is that fed there is little counterplay when they try to kill someone as well, it's just slower. And LB is a bad example, because I agree with the zero-counterplay problem, she's cancer to play against and I legit can't believe Riot reverted her for that very reason. Snowballing still exist, it just doesn't mean that two kills in lane = gg. Snowballing has become more of a team oriented activity. The reward for stomping your lane over and over again is low, in comparison to roaming the map and securing other objectives. That is why rushing down towers is worth it, there was a time a few seasons ago where getting ahead in lane meant endlessly freezing the lane, until you had your major items and could go team fight. TP also became meta, although that's been around for a very long time now. I could also talk about how snowballing in bot lane used to be harder because of itemization (BT first), and that meta picks were all bursty (Corki, Graves, Ezreal). This meant that getting ahead in lane made it impossible to even go for cs because you'd get insta chunked for half or more of your HP, and didn't have the sustain to recover. Champs like Lucian and the original BotRK meta (when there was no sustain in the mastery tree) had similar problems. the faker argument wasnt meant to be taken literally. no shit youre not going to find a bronze player whos 10-0 when faker is on the enemy team. the analogy is meant to describe how a better player can get absolutely dumpstered by a shit player because your shit teammates fed. the thing you dont understand with dota is that it isnt the same as lol at all. aside from a couple specific scenarios (shadowfiend with blink/euls 15mins into the game etc.), its much easier to make a mistake in the execution and there is a lot of room for outplay by the guy trying to run away. abusing fog, tp, item usage or simply just cc and running are all extremely common methods of escape and the onus falls onto the attacker to eliminate all of those possibilities. the better the player the higher the chances that he can ruin the execution of the attacker and survive the encounter. couple this with better knowledge and execution of the macro aspect of the game and you have yourself a game thats stalling out and the losing team slowly catching up. this just doesnt happen in lol
Are you actually serious?
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the analogy is meant to describe how a better player can get absolutely dumpstered by a shit player because your shit teammates fed.
That's some legit elo hell talk right there. Unless you're in bronze, people don't regularly go 0-10, or even 0-5 by the midgame. If you're in an elo where that happens, then blaming game mechanics is a poor justification. Just because it's different to Dota doesn't make it worse.
its much easier to make a mistake in the execution and there is a lot of room for outplay by the guy trying to run away. abusing fog, tp, item usage or simply just cc and running are all extremely common methods of escape and the onus falls onto the attacker to eliminate all of those possibilities.
You can do most of those things in LoL. In fact, you listed most of the main ways of outplaying opponents. Only one you missed was mechanical outplay, because most abilities in the game are skillshots.
couple this with better knowledge and execution of the macro aspect of the game and you have yourself a game thats stalling out and the losing team slowly catching up. this just doesnt happen in lol
You haven't been playing for very long then, because stalling games was a big problem just last season, where getting baron meant a 25 minute game, so teams played safe and ended up in 70 min snooze fests. Or back in the day when the likes of Anivia/Ziggs/Sivir were meta and made breaking bases incredibly slow.
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On May 16 2018 06:38 DarkCore wrote:
[Unless you're in bronze, people don't regularly go 0-10, or even 0-5 by the midgame.
Now that's a thinker. I'd say about 20% of games have a 0-5 person in them. I'd call that fairly regularly.
+ Show Spoiler [og post] +
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On May 16 2018 06:38 DarkCore wrote:
That's some legit elo hell talk right there. Unless you're in bronze, people don't regularly go 0-10, or even 0-5 by the midgame. If you're in an elo where that happens, then blaming game mechanics is a poor justification. Just because it's different to Dota doesn't make it worse.
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/qTDOfii.png)
Disagree
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On May 16 2018 06:38 DarkCore wrote:Show nested quote +the analogy is meant to describe how a better player can get absolutely dumpstered by a shit player because your shit teammates fed. That's some legit elo hell talk right there. Unless you're in bronze, people don't regularly go 0-10, or even 0-5 by the midgame. If you're in an elo where that happens, then blaming game mechanics is a poor justification. Just because it's different to Dota doesn't make it worse. Show nested quote +its much easier to make a mistake in the execution and there is a lot of room for outplay by the guy trying to run away. abusing fog, tp, item usage or simply just cc and running are all extremely common methods of escape and the onus falls onto the attacker to eliminate all of those possibilities. You can do most of those things in LoL. In fact, you listed most of the main ways of outplaying opponents. Only one you missed was mechanical outplay, because most abilities in the game are skillshots. Show nested quote +couple this with better knowledge and execution of the macro aspect of the game and you have yourself a game thats stalling out and the losing team slowly catching up. this just doesnt happen in lol You haven't been playing for very long then, because stalling games was a big problem just last season, where getting baron meant a 25 minute game, so teams played safe and ended up in 70 min snooze fests. Or back in the day when the likes of Anivia/Ziggs/Sivir were meta and made breaking bases incredibly slow.
my point with the 0-10 analogy keeps going over your head but whatever. people who responded pointed out that youre wrong about that even if you keep taking it literally anyway.
as for the 2nd point, its no where near as easy in lol to outplay your opponent when hes 5-0 up against you. barring scenarios where you flash to run over a wall, its near impossible to run away unless you have a specific skill/item set that gives you ms (singed or something). that leaves you one option which is to fight. if you somehow manage to beat him then good for you, but usually this is more due to an attacker's misplay rather than an outplay (there is a significant difference between the 2). hoping for the attacker to regularly screw up basic shit isnt a good way to win the game.
your 3rd point about stalling games all describe team efforts. good luck finding a team that actually knows how to stall a game when theyre losing in soloq, and if you did then they probably arent gonna be bad enough to feed in the first place. im talking about individual efforts to carry a shit team.
i dont know if you play any dota, but give storm/sf/invoker/np/am to any good player and youll see how well coordinated ganks have to be and how costly it is when it fails. theres obviously a lot more heroes that ive left out but the point is its possible to just 1v5 the game by not dying. in lol its just way too easy to die even if you play perfectly. dopa complained last season that most of his games were stomps (wins and losses). once one team gets an advantage its too hard for them to lose it
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Ok this may be too technical a question, but here goes. Mundo’s cleaver costs health when you use it. At level 5 it’s 90 health. If you kill a minion with it when it hits, the cost is “refunded”. Does that refund count as a heal? If I had 10% plus heal shield power, like from a redemption, would I get 99 health back after spending 90 health to kill a minion?
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On May 18 2018 04:47 General_Winter wrote:
Ok this may be too technical a question, but here goes. Mundo’s cleaver costs health when you use it. At level 5 it’s 90 health. If you kill a minion with it when it hits, the cost is “refunded”. Does that refund count as a heal? If I had 10% plus heal shield power, like from a redemption, would I get 99 health back after spending 90 health to kill a minion?
The refund count as healing, so yep.
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Ok. Maybe this is a dangerous questions so mods delete if you need to. I’m traveling to Europe on business and I was hoping to just make a new account and play some normals and ignore ranked, but I forgot that new accounts can’t even play normals. So that’s out.
Anyone know of a reputable place to buy an account from that won’t scam you or steal your identity? I’m looking to pay maybe the cost of a 3D movie ticket. Don’t need tons of champs cause I don’t want to play ranked, just want something I can do the first few nights while jet lagged and trying to stay awake. Thanks.
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Just throwing this out there, but couldn't you transfer your account and back? Idk the cost of a double transfer or blackmarket accounts, just an idea.
Also, if you're just playing normals, 100-200 ping is not too bad. Just queue ez champs and dope around.
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does anyone know why seraphs embrace sells for 0. is this a bug or intended?
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On May 23 2018 17:01 evilfatsh1t wrote:
does anyone know why seraphs embrace sells for 0. is this a bug or intended?
It's weird cause archangel staff does sell for gold. Seems like since you can't purchase it in the store then it doesn't have a gold value attached and can't be sold for gold. Alternatively, Rioters could think if you want to use the item to its fullest then there needs to be a downside to it? Idk.
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It's probably just a bug because no one remembered to code it in as a special case, something something Indie company.
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EPT
