Similar, I generally go FMallet instead of TF with my Phage, as I like to be a man and jump in at every turn. TF is good on him, I just find BT better. FH is a good item for him, so is Maw, and Hex/Glacial is a nice smooth build path. I think I'd put off GA until after both are finished, personally.

obesechicken13

United States10467 Posts

August 21 2012 16:58 GMT

#62

I feel like vamp scepter and merc treads are the only cores on jayce. He needs the sustain and movement speed. It's pretty easy to sustain in top lane because you're ranged and can auto no matter what. Even if you get low you can just keep hitting the golems on purple side as they refresh (if your wave is not pushed to tower) for a cheap mini fountain. This is a trick you can do with any ranged champion in the jungle as well.

I think he likes AD items, dislikes AP items, crit early on, and hates constant attack speed until at least late into the game.
I like both bilgewater and phage. Phage allows you to trade with people that you can chase. Constant phage procs and movespeed allow you to chase someone from almost full to dead from your tower to theirs. If you can't constantly slow someone though I think the free damage on bilgewater is better for trading in lane.

I like to build him somewhat tanky too so he can dive while ranged spells are on cd.
I've build randuins on him against fed AD's (like 12 of team's 16 kills). I figure you don't need the mana from frozen heart but can get that too since it provides nice cdr. Thornmail if you'd like to duel autoattackers or they have several autoattackers.

Hex seems like a good item for him for dueling APs.

I like merc treads on him since he doesn't gain much from the other tenacity items. Tenacity is just really strong.

I know he gets to proc sheen a lot but I don't think it's worth buying AP, mana, aspd, and early crit to get triforce early on just for the proc.

sylverfyre

United States8298 Posts

August 21 2012 17:37 GMT

#63

I like your general theory, but I feel like getting an later BT would be nicer than having an early Bilgewater, and then take it to something like Mallet + BT + Resist items (Randuins, whatever) I haven't built phage before without building it into triforce, and I stopped when I decided triforce wasn't worth it. I haven't thought about going back to the phage (the phage itself is quite nice, after all) and just building it into something else. Besides, flat HP isn't so bad on him - it's not like you're relying on shields or sustain in big teamfights, the lifesteal is just so you can cover up your total lack of sustain for the laning phase, you mostly want big AD.

Requizen

United States33802 Posts

August 21 2012 17:43 GMT

#64

Health is nice on him because it synergizes with his free Hammer resists, making him deceptively hard to take down. Mallet is great because it gives that plus a bit of AD (and Phage being great in lane phase), plus the slow which is super easy for him to apply and keep up.

obesechicken13

United States10467 Posts

August 21 2012 17:48 GMT

#65

On August 22 2012 02:37 sylverfyre wrote:
I like your general theory.

Thanks.

sylverfyre

United States8298 Posts

August 21 2012 17:54 GMT

#66

I will say though that I don't think mana is wasted on him - he eats his mana pretty significantly during any kind of poke phase with ranged EQ poking and W autoattacks. This poke is such a strong part of the character (Even if Q is being leveled last, the significant amount of bonus AD from bloodthirster is being multiplied) that I feel like not being able to get much out of it is a disservice. For this reason, I think Glacial shroud/FH is great on him.

Midgame core I'm suggesting is basically:
BT + Phage + Glacial? Might be a bit scary diving into teamfights like that, though. Can go Vamp + Phage + Giantbelt + Glacial if your team needs you to be more meaty early on, THEN finish the BT.

Vs. heavy AP, instead vamp+phage+giantbelt+hexdrinker - in this case, the lateness of bf sword/BT is made up somewhat by the hexdrinker.

If you go phage+giantbelt at any rate, still build the BT before completing mallet. Completing mallet isn't 100% necessary (you're pretty damn good at proccing phage with your ranged W, and you don't really get much defensive stats out of mallet completing anyway.)

Sufficiency

Canada23833 Posts

August 21 2012 19:23 GMT

#67

FH is very good for him partially because Jayce needs CDR. With CDR he can switch between the two modes more quickly, allowing better chasing/escape and proc'ing R's on-hit effect.

Requizen

United States33802 Posts

August 21 2012 19:25 GMT

#68

I just have issues getting to FH, lol. Game usually ends by the time I get BT/FM (what I consider my "core"), and unless I really need armor, Glacial isn't high up on my list. When I do get it, shit gets silly. He works so well with CDR that I'll ask for Blue if we have a Kennen or Vlad mid.

obesechicken13

United States10467 Posts

August 24 2012 00:18 GMT

#69

I did some calculations on the damage of Jayce's W and put them in this spreadsheet. Your conclusions are your own to draw.

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B9ekUM_l-4IzRXprUzlzZHNFd1U

Requizen

United States33802 Posts

August 24 2012 01:34 GMT

#70

On August 24 2012 09:18 obesechicken13 wrote:
I did some calculations on the damage of Jayce's W and put them in this spreadsheet. Your conclusions are your own to draw.

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B9ekUM_l-4IzRXprUzlzZHNFd1U

Explain it to me like I'm 5.

obesechicken13

United States10467 Posts

August 24 2012 01:47 GMT

#71

On August 24 2012 10:34 Requizen wrote:

Show nested quote +

Explain it to me like I'm 5.

Jayce's W does pretty well and I think it should be maxed second after Q.

Requizen

United States33802 Posts

August 24 2012 01:51 GMT

#72

On August 24 2012 10:47 obesechicken13 wrote:

Show nested quote +

Jayce's W does pretty well and I think it should be maxed second after Q.

But I like maxing E to slap shit for health percentages!

Edit: but yeah, those numbers are pretty convincing.

sylverfyre

United States8298 Posts

August 24 2012 03:08 GMT

#73

It's worth noting that if you're sticking to someone in melee, Jayce's Hammer W has some beefy damage too. Pretty conditional though.

bokeevboke

Singapore1674 Posts

August 24 2012 03:36 GMT

#74

Just bought him, he is awesome. I think he is very versatile thats why you can build anything you want, depends on your style. But I think being tanky is the best, since you want to do full combo, that is EQW in cannon stance and QW in Hammer stance, use E to save your squishies.
So far, my matchups:
Vlad is a problem,
Singed easy,
Darius medium-easy.

ADCs hurt a lot. Need to watch out. You can't go Olaf's "I DONT GIVE A FUCK" mode .

Sufficiency

Canada23833 Posts

August 24 2012 13:48 GMT

#75

On August 24 2012 12:08 sylverfyre wrote:
It's worth noting that if you're sticking to someone in melee, Jayce's Hammer W has some beefy damage too. Pretty conditional though.

His W's damage in Hammer Form is pretty sick. At rank 5, you do 380 (+1.0 per ability power) over 4 seconds. Comparably, Rumble's Q "only" does 370 (+1.35 per ability power) without the danger zone.

phyvo

United States5635 Posts

August 24 2012 17:31 GMT

#76

Jayce's W damage is not out of line if you compare it to Shyv's W damage, though. It's only about 12 more DPS with a lot less duration. I don't think any one part of Jayce's base damage is ridiculous it's just the ability to basically get 2 skill points worth of damage with 1 skill point as Smash said.

sylverfyre

United States8298 Posts

August 24 2012 19:46 GMT

#77

Well yeah. But it's quite solid, and when you're looking at an early W-max for the ranged form W, you have to consider that the melee form W is quite the sleeper.

Sufficiency

Canada23833 Posts

August 24 2012 21:24 GMT

#78

On August 25 2012 02:31 phyvo wrote:
Jayce's W damage is not out of line if you compare it to Shyv's W damage, though. It's only about 12 more DPS with a lot less duration. I don't think any one part of Jayce's base damage is ridiculous it's just the ability to basically get 2 skill points worth of damage with 1 skill point as Smash said.

OK I admit I don't jungle and I rarely think about Shyvana. After looking up her numbers, her W man... so broken.

Nevertheless, I still think Jayce's W in Hammer Form does a lot of damage, especially when it doubles as an AS steroid.

EDIT: one more thing I discovered recently: when using 19-11 masteries, I now set it up like this: http://leaguecraft.com/masteries/1300441011001030000224021000000000000000000000000

with one point in bonus damage to towers. It helps me to push slightly faster, which is one of Jayce's greatest strength... and there isn't really a better place to put that point (and I really want Sunder), so oh well.