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[Champion] Jayce - Page 2

Forum Index > LoL Strategy
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Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
July 31 2012 11:13 GMT
#21
I find myself having to disagree. I'm in the air as to whether Q or E max is better (poke vs trading/burst), but I'd never level W over either of them. Unless your strat revolves around taking turrets super fast, which is really the only thing cannon W is good at, or farming everything with Hammer W. In any situation with an enemy champ, I'd rather have as many ranks in Q and E as possible, regardless of which one I go first.

And yeah, R makes you deceptively tanky in hammer form.
It's your boy Guzma!
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
July 31 2012 11:28 GMT
#22
You have a good point, but I think W is safer for laning.... because your Q in cannon form is hit or miss, but you can't go wrong with autoattack enhancers (unless you are against Jax). In hammer form, you are not relying on your Q's damage anyway.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
July 31 2012 13:18 GMT
#23
Q's damage is only laughable at rank 1. From there it goes up 45 points per level(20 / 65 / 110 / 155 / 200), reduces CD by 2 seconds per level and increases the slow by 50% per level. In comparison, you need to have rank 3 in W for the boosted attacks to actually do 100% of your natural auto damage.

I don't know, perhaps you're right, but I find that in most top lane trades, you're more likely going to be relying on the burst from EQ - shift to hammer - Q auto E than you are standing still and using W.
It's your boy Guzma!
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-18 15:44:06
July 31 2012 15:33 GMT
#24
fuuu... I'll probably just play him because I like his W and smashing people around and people won't yell at you for picking a ranged bruiser top.

kayle vs nidalee vs jayce vs teemo D:
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
Vaporized
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1471 Posts
July 31 2012 15:50 GMT
#25
On July 31 2012 20:28 Sufficiency wrote:
You have a good point, but I think W is safer for laning.... because your Q in cannon form is hit or miss, but you can't go wrong with autoattack enhancers (unless you are against Jax). In hammer form, you are not relying on your Q's damage anyway.

eh. i would never max w before q or e. practice your q's through the gate and you will see how much damage they can do.

who spends much time in hammer form anyway? being ranged is almost always better then melee in this game. i just go to hammer to get off my combo and then back to cannon asap.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
August 01 2012 10:47 GMT
#26
On August 01 2012 00:50 Vaporized wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2012 20:28 Sufficiency wrote:
You have a good point, but I think W is safer for laning.... because your Q in cannon form is hit or miss, but you can't go wrong with autoattack enhancers (unless you are against Jax). In hammer form, you are not relying on your Q's damage anyway.

eh. i would never max w before q or e. practice your q's through the gate and you will see how much damage they can do.

who spends much time in hammer form anyway? being ranged is almost always better then melee in this game. i just go to hammer to get off my combo and then back to cannon asap.


W is mostly for his Hyper Charge (cannon form). His W in hammer form can also be useful for clearing waves.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
August 01 2012 13:16 GMT
#27
On August 01 2012 19:47 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 01 2012 00:50 Vaporized wrote:
On July 31 2012 20:28 Sufficiency wrote:
You have a good point, but I think W is safer for laning.... because your Q in cannon form is hit or miss, but you can't go wrong with autoattack enhancers (unless you are against Jax). In hammer form, you are not relying on your Q's damage anyway.

eh. i would never max w before q or e. practice your q's through the gate and you will see how much damage they can do.

who spends much time in hammer form anyway? being ranged is almost always better then melee in this game. i just go to hammer to get off my combo and then back to cannon asap.


W is mostly for his Hyper Charge (cannon form). His W in hammer form can also be useful for clearing waves.

I think that choice really depends on playstyle. I never play him like an AD carry, skirting edges of fights in Cannon and auto attacking. If you do, I can see W max being pretty good. I play him (and so do most people, I think) as a bruiser, most of my fighting time is spent in Hammer form, jumping around and smacking shit. I generally use Cannon only for laning, poking, and finishing off runners.

However, one of Jayce's strongest points is that he has this super flexible playstyle, so whatever floats your boat is great as far as I can tell.
It's your boy Guzma!
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
August 01 2012 17:27 GMT
#28
I like maxing Q first on Jayce, it's very good at pushing lanes. At rank 3~4, with sufficient AD, you should be able to 1 shot ranged minions with it (cannon form), which is amazingly good whenever you force the enemy out of lane.
liftlift > tsm
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
August 01 2012 19:33 GMT
#29
I've started to think E max is the way to go, with R>E>Q>W being my order. Q poke is great, but if you're forcing trades a lot, I like to just use Q to get in range, then chunk them with E (not much they can do about it), then just walk away. You lose some ranged power, but they'll start to think twice about fighting you after 2 or 3 E hammers to the face chunking 20% of their health.

It's still a toss up, though. Q is so good for just forcing them away or keeping them at bay that it's not even funny.
It's your boy Guzma!
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
August 01 2012 20:24 GMT
#30
well i guess the main question is what form do you keep jayce in for the majority of the time? I'm usually thinking jayce as ranged for much of the early levels, because he doesnt' really get tanky till the first point into his ulti~, so my thinking process is centered around ranged jayce.
liftlift > tsm
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
August 01 2012 20:34 GMT
#31
On August 02 2012 05:24 wei2coolman wrote:
well i guess the main question is what form do you keep jayce in for the majority of the time? I'm usually thinking jayce as ranged for much of the early levels, because he doesnt' really get tanky till the first point into his ulti~, so my thinking process is centered around ranged jayce.

You can't think that limited. He's both, and operates as both. His role is bruiser with the option to extend his range in exchange for defenses. Farming and harassing should be done from a range, but fighting and trading should be done in Hammer. Late game, poking is done in Cannon, but once the fight starts you should be changing as needed. Hammer to jump in the pack and dive the squishy, ranged to chase/finish off runners, switch back again for the speed boost.

Jayce's natural power is his flexibility and adaptation. Whether he's filling the role of bot lane or top, his burst damage comes from Cannon EQ and Hammer Q-auto-E. While he can do very respectable damage by playing like a ranged AD and just standing there autoing in Cannon form, you're missing out on the whole power of his kit.
It's your boy Guzma!
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
August 01 2012 20:45 GMT
#32
On August 02 2012 05:34 Requizen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 02 2012 05:24 wei2coolman wrote:
well i guess the main question is what form do you keep jayce in for the majority of the time? I'm usually thinking jayce as ranged for much of the early levels, because he doesnt' really get tanky till the first point into his ulti~, so my thinking process is centered around ranged jayce.

You can't think that limited. He's both, and operates as both. His role is bruiser with the option to extend his range in exchange for defenses. Farming and harassing should be done from a range, but fighting and trading should be done in Hammer. Late game, poking is done in Cannon, but once the fight starts you should be changing as needed. Hammer to jump in the pack and dive the squishy, ranged to chase/finish off runners, switch back again for the speed boost.

Jayce's natural power is his flexibility and adaptation. Whether he's filling the role of bot lane or top, his burst damage comes from Cannon EQ and Hammer Q-auto-E. While he can do very respectable damage by playing like a ranged AD and just standing there autoing in Cannon form, you're missing out on the whole power of his kit.

I try not to think that limited, but essentially from level 1-4, i'm generally in the ranged form, the melee form is only there for going all in for a kill, or harass that I know that I can't get retaliated on.
liftlift > tsm
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
August 01 2012 20:52 GMT
#33
I go (Q or E) - (E or Q) - W - whichever I'm going to level first. I'll got Q first in lanes where I'll want ranged pushing power (vs Rumble, for instance, so I can deal with Flamespitter), E first in lanes where I feel confident slapping shit at level 1.

But yeah, you're going to be doing most of your first few levels in Cannon, unless it's an easy lane where you can trade from level 1. I still don't think that discounts E max in some situations.
It's your boy Guzma!
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
August 02 2012 02:09 GMT
#34
On August 02 2012 05:52 Requizen wrote:
I go (Q or E) - (E or Q) - W - whichever I'm going to level first. I'll got Q first in lanes where I'll want ranged pushing power (vs Rumble, for instance, so I can deal with Flamespitter), E first in lanes where I feel confident slapping shit at level 1.

But yeah, you're going to be doing most of your first few levels in Cannon, unless it's an easy lane where you can trade from level 1. I still don't think that discounts E max in some situations.

I could see E max'd first being viable, but I think it's more niche pick than Q first. I'd definitely say I'd probably Q first 70-80% of the time.
liftlift > tsm
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
August 02 2012 02:14 GMT
#35
On August 02 2012 05:52 Requizen wrote:
I go (Q or E) - (E or Q) - W - whichever I'm going to level first. I'll got Q first in lanes where I'll want ranged pushing power (vs Rumble, for instance, so I can deal with Flamespitter), E first in lanes where I feel confident slapping shit at level 1.

But yeah, you're going to be doing most of your first few levels in Cannon, unless it's an easy lane where you can trade from level 1. I still don't think that discounts E max in some situations.


I never played this matchup before due to how broken Rumble was (not that I was afraid of the matchup, it's just that I happened to pick Rumble a lot instead. But I *think* when you E Rumble, he will turn away from you, thus negating some damage on you while you can run away.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Bladeorade
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1898 Posts
August 02 2012 21:39 GMT
#36
I have played Jayce both top and bot and I really feel E max is the way to go. Even bot lane. He does so much damage to squishies that running a kill lane with him bot is really good. Blitz, Leona, Alistar and Janna all work really well with him. Anyone who can lock someone down so he can EQWRQauto x3 E. I've generally gone boots +3 or 4 -> 2 dorans -> Zerkers -> Bloodthirster -> PD -> GA/IE/Phage (into Frozen Mallet) -> Last Whisper.

GA or Frozen Mallet being the 2 defensive options I like on him. Health works well on him because his resists and GA is GA. I am not sure which I like better. I have also gone BT -> Phage -> IE which also works well. If I am playing bot lane in team fights I generally stay in cannon form to start team fights and kiting and then when its cleanup time or if someone is really persistent in diving me/my team sucks
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-02 22:47:34
August 02 2012 22:46 GMT
#37
So someone mentioned this before but no aspd jayce can have decent physical burst.

With an IE and 4 cloaks and 3% crit from runes he gets something like 2340 physical damage from 4 shots of W in ~1.6 seconds. Just not sure where to build from there.

I will try it out. Obviously this doesn't build into anything. And trist gets 2.0 aspd with her Q, Pdancer, and levels at level 18.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-02 23:23:24
August 02 2012 23:23 GMT
#38
On August 03 2012 07:46 obesechicken13 wrote:
So someone mentioned this before but no aspd jayce can have decent physical burst.

With an IE and 4 cloaks and 3% crit from runes he gets something like 2340 physical damage from 4 shots of W in ~1.6 seconds. Just not sure where to build from there.

I will try it out. Obviously this doesn't build into anything. And trist gets 2.0 aspd with her Q, Pdancer, and levels at level 18.


5 BT + boots =D

Or 4 BT + Executioner's Calling + boots
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
August 18 2012 15:32 GMT
#39
On July 31 2012 08:09 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2012 04:46 Requizen wrote:
Yorick is on the list of "shit that's annoying to lane against", but he kind of is for everyone, isn't he?

Any tips from other people? I generally ended up farming with my EQ unless his ghouls got in the way. That's a matchup I'd consider Wriggle's in, just so I could keep up with sustain and get some defenses against the ghouls, consider a Cloth start on it as well.


Well, anything with innate high sustain and ranged harass Jayce can't deal with well. I never played against Yorick as Jayce but I would imagine it would be hell of a lane. I did play quit a few times against Nidalee and that was terrible too because Jayce can't out-trade her.

This is strange because I feel like I can take yorick and nidalee as kayle but I can't take jayce on.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
August 18 2012 17:39 GMT
#40
On August 19 2012 00:32 obesechicken13 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2012 08:09 Sufficiency wrote:
On July 31 2012 04:46 Requizen wrote:
Yorick is on the list of "shit that's annoying to lane against", but he kind of is for everyone, isn't he?

Any tips from other people? I generally ended up farming with my EQ unless his ghouls got in the way. That's a matchup I'd consider Wriggle's in, just so I could keep up with sustain and get some defenses against the ghouls, consider a Cloth start on it as well.


Well, anything with innate high sustain and ranged harass Jayce can't deal with well. I never played against Yorick as Jayce but I would imagine it would be hell of a lane. I did play quit a few times against Nidalee and that was terrible too because Jayce can't out-trade her.

This is strange because I feel like I can take yorick and nidalee as kayle but I can't take jayce on.


Kayle has a slow, hits harder, and she has a heal, so that might be why. Against Nidalee as Jayce, if you just auto trade you lose (she heals); if you trade with hammer form she disengages with W and kite you. It's a nightmare of a lane.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
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