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[Champion] Jayce - Page 3

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Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-19 08:42:03
August 19 2012 08:34 GMT
#41
I feel like bumping this.

For some reason I didn't get solo mid and had to play the top lane instead, so I felt like giving Jayce another go. The new Jayce is very smooth now. His melee attack is very fast, and the "bug" with the first attack upon R is fixed. His gameplay is so fast and fluid now.... playing him was extremely fun.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Shiv.
Profile Joined January 2011
3534 Posts
August 19 2012 09:01 GMT
#42
On August 19 2012 17:34 Sufficiency wrote:
I feel like bumping this.

For some reason I didn't get solo mid and had to play the top lane instead, so I felt like giving Jayce another go. The new Jayce is very smooth now. His melee attack is very fast, and the "bug" with the first attack upon R is fixed. His gameplay is so fast and fluid now.... playing him was extremely fun.

He's also retardedly safe thanks to his E in both forms, has few bad matchups because he can always refrain from being aggressive and just straight up farm in ranged form and R->E if he gets engaged on. His teamfighting seems insanely strong given your jungler is able to initiate. I'd say he'll become fotm pretty soon.
currently rooting for myself.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
August 19 2012 09:35 GMT
#43
On August 19 2012 18:01 Shiv. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 19 2012 17:34 Sufficiency wrote:
I feel like bumping this.

For some reason I didn't get solo mid and had to play the top lane instead, so I felt like giving Jayce another go. The new Jayce is very smooth now. His melee attack is very fast, and the "bug" with the first attack upon R is fixed. His gameplay is so fast and fluid now.... playing him was extremely fun.

He's also retardedly safe thanks to his E in both forms, has few bad matchups because he can always refrain from being aggressive and just straight up farm in ranged form and R->E if he gets engaged on. His teamfighting seems insanely strong given your jungler is able to initiate. I'd say he'll become fotm pretty soon.


I doubt he will become fotm anytime soon. His winrate before the buff was around 48-49%; this buff, which has no numerical changes, won't change his raw power (only made him more pleasant to play imo). I don't think he will be Sejuani #2, but he has been forgotten by a lot of people already.

Also he is far from having few bad matchups. He is very weak against ranged harass (in cannon farm his Q can be blocked, his W is underwhelming in earlier levels) unless he goes all-in in hammer form. His lack of sustain also hurts him badly (almost all other ranged top laners, e.g. Nidalee, Vladimir, Kayle, Swain, have some form of sustain).

When Rengar is released in a few days his popularity will take yet another blow.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Shiv.
Profile Joined January 2011
3534 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-19 10:04:07
August 19 2012 10:03 GMT
#44
Nothing personal, Sufficiency, but I still think pulling numbers like overall winrate is stupid. It says nothing about how well a single champ performs, only how often he's been picked into better teams. It's rarely a single person that wins games, even in soloQ. Maybe I'm just mad, but I don't think it adds any value to the discussion.

About your second paragraph, he doesn't really have to commit to any trades because he's so mobile, and if they decide to come up to me, Hammer-Q-E and running away generally let's me come out ahead. Admittedly, I haven't played much against ranged champions besides Vlad, who I always happened to truck easily, so I might very well be in the wrong here. His sustain is an issue, but since I prefer an early BT, it works out just fine after getting Vamp. He's much like Kayle and to a lesser extent Nidalee in this regard imo.

Soaz just received a couple of targetted Jayce bans at the EU regionals, so I think he might become more popular. I don't know and I don't care, I'm having a blast playing him
currently rooting for myself.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-19 21:09:12
August 19 2012 21:07 GMT
#45
On August 19 2012 19:03 Shiv. wrote:
Nothing personal, Sufficiency, but I still think pulling numbers like overall winrate is stupid. It says nothing about how well a single champ performs, only how often he's been picked into better teams. It's rarely a single person that wins games, even in soloQ. Maybe I'm just mad, but I don't think it adds any value to the discussion.

About your second paragraph, he doesn't really have to commit to any trades because he's so mobile, and if they decide to come up to me, Hammer-Q-E and running away generally let's me come out ahead. Admittedly, I haven't played much against ranged champions besides Vlad, who I always happened to truck easily, so I might very well be in the wrong here. His sustain is an issue, but since I prefer an early BT, it works out just fine after getting Vamp. He's much like Kayle and to a lesser extent Nidalee in this regard imo.

Soaz just received a couple of targetted Jayce bans at the EU regionals, so I think he might become more popular. I don't know and I don't care, I'm having a blast playing him


Playing as Jayce is awesome,I don't disagree with that. He is extremely fun to play.

The thing with FotM is that if you can't win games with the champion he will fade very quickly. This is why win rate is important: if a champion is fun to play but have low win rates, he will fail to achieve FotM status and remain a "niched" champion.

I think one example is Anivia. Even though Froggen and other people have played him often in tournaments with amazing plays, Anivia remains around 47-48% win rate. It is undeniable that Anivia is one of the strongest AP mids right now in tournamet plays, but her lackluster performance in soloQ means that she will never achieve FotM status.

In the end I rather not have Jayce become FotM. I get really annoyed at seeing my favourite champions becoming FotM since I prefer somewhat more "niched" picks (I was very annoyed with the Rumble changes that made him absolutely broken).
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-20 03:57:22
August 20 2012 03:54 GMT
#46
I've been playing some Jayce today. Games weren't bad. I like his jungling as well as his top lane. He feels like a wriggles jungler since he likes the sustain.

I went even against a cho one game today. Came close to dying a few times but didn't. The only death I had in lane came from a malphite gank from behind the tower but I lost my tower because of that. One thing that frustrated me in that matchup was how hard it was to dodge ruptures and how little damage I did to cho since he could just sustain it back killing creeps (30 hp a creep op). It was hard to disengage since he could silence me before I used my hammer form E on him. Cho's always been one of those even matchups for me. Of course cho is much easier when you can get kills on him as he loses stacks and comes back with less health. I didn't get any ganks that game even though I didn't always keep the wave pushed.

Here's something I wrote on ghostblade on the league wiki.
When you autoattack again the skill refreshes again and goes to 8 seconds. Theoretically you could have ghostblade's active on for almost 18 seconds if you autoattacked at the right times but it'd be very difficult and wasteful to do.

The item seems like it would have good synergy with jayce. In ranged form jayce has his W which increases attack speed to the max (300%) so during it, all forms of attack speed are wasted. But Ghostblade only gives conditional attack speed, and lasts longer on melee champions. This means jayce can activate it whenever he is in melee form. Once he has the stacks up he can switch to ranged. The AD and armor pen allow jayce to hit harder on some of his abilities and the crit helps to scale into late game autoattack damage. Ghostblade also has a very smooth build path.

In addition Jayce can use his W in ranged, activate ghostblade after the 3/4 shots on W, and then switch to melee form as ghostblade is about to expire to get the ghostblade stacks up, then switch back to ranged form to make use of the final 2-3+ seconds of ghostblade's active.

Oh one final note. Jayce can activate W in ranged form, transform to melee form, get 1 auto off in melee form, and then use the last two charges of attack speed buff to get the final two stacks of ghostblade's active off. There's no point to doing this, it's just something he can do.

It would seem he would prefer phage for chasing, or bilgewater for the sustain, slow, and active damage though in some matchups.


Just an addition. IE PD is vastly superior to ghostblade and any other damage item on it's own in extended fights. I can't argue against that. But Jayce needs to build somewhat tanky to make use of his hammer form abilities. Most games will have been decided before he can build tanky and IE PD. Ghostblade offers a great single damage dealing item with a build path as smooth as phantom dancer, and better early game stats.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
bokeevboke
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Singapore1674 Posts
August 20 2012 04:10 GMT
#47
I think Jayce is awesome,very strong and fun. When I play him I'm always in the heat of action and fight like a man, without any bullshit. Much like olaf. The thing about him - its not clear whether he's strong or weak, it depends on how good you are, what decisions you make. There is always room for improvement.
Its grack
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
August 20 2012 04:12 GMT
#48
I can see Cho being difficult. Jayce has no sustain and relies a lot on his abilities, so a silence and that passive would be kind of rough on him.

I still dislike his jungle. It can work, I guess, but his clear is so slow, you really need to rely on ganks to get anywhere. That said, his poke and then chunk ganks are really strong, but he doesn't really have super amazing gank presence. Good in solo queue if you want a semi-carry jungle, though I'd probably go Jax over him if I was really intent on winning.
It's your boy Guzma!
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-20 04:58:16
August 20 2012 04:56 GMT
#49
On August 20 2012 13:12 Requizen wrote:
I can see Cho being difficult. Jayce has no sustain and relies a lot on his abilities, so a silence and that passive would be kind of rough on him.

I still dislike his jungle. It can work, I guess, but his clear is so slow, you really need to rely on ganks to get anywhere. That said, his poke and then chunk ganks are really strong, but he doesn't really have super amazing gank presence. Good in solo queue if you want a semi-carry jungle, though I'd probably go Jax over him if I was really intent on winning.


As far as I know his jungle is terrible. His clear is respectable and he can duel OK in the jungle, but his ganks are pretty bad.

Jayce belongs to the top lane.



On August 20 2012 13:10 bokeevboke wrote:
I think Jayce is awesome,very strong and fun. When I play him I'm always in the heat of action and fight like a man, without any bullshit. Much like olaf. The thing about him - its not clear whether he's strong or weak, it depends on how good you are, what decisions you make. There is always room for improvement.


I agree. Jayce is very fun to play. Maybe one day he will turn out like Lee Sin - secretly OP but takes a long while for people to figure out how to play him. I also have to say he is one of the few bruisers who can pull off really big plays.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
gtrsrs
Profile Joined June 2010
United States9109 Posts
August 20 2012 06:15 GMT
#50
lee sin wasn't secretly OP though... he got hefty buffs and the help of a bug to move him from unplayable to viable
i play ... hearthstone =\^.^/= Winterfox
phyvo
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States5635 Posts
August 20 2012 11:05 GMT
#51
Fun fact: damage from Jayce's W can crit.

Discovered this while stacking IEs.
"BE A MANGO TO SLEEP LIKE A SNORING TIGER" - Monte
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
August 20 2012 13:52 GMT
#52
On August 20 2012 20:05 phyvo wrote:
Fun fact: damage from Jayce's W can crit.

Discovered this while stacking IEs.


Don't you see this when you build Trinity Force?
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
August 20 2012 14:47 GMT
#53
Do you all think that there's anything to transitioning into AD carry mode if your team has enough tankiness? Saw a game with Galio mid/Ali jungle/Jayce top, Jayce just basically eschewed any defenses and became a second AD carry for the team (BT/PD/IE), seemed to work pretty well for him.
It's your boy Guzma!
phyvo
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States5635 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-20 19:30:52
August 20 2012 15:14 GMT
#54
On August 20 2012 22:52 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2012 20:05 phyvo wrote:
Fun fact: damage from Jayce's W can crit.

Discovered this while stacking IEs.


Don't you see this when you build Trinity Force?


Yeah, but I was screwing around with him on test realm because I use it to try champs before I buy. I only thought it was notable because Riot's usually doesn't let this stuff crit unless it explicitly gives bonus AD. Maybe if I had paid attention to my stats after pressing W I would I have seen it sooner? I dunno.
"BE A MANGO TO SLEEP LIKE A SNORING TIGER" - Monte
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
August 20 2012 15:39 GMT
#55
On August 20 2012 23:47 Requizen wrote:
Do you all think that there's anything to transitioning into AD carry mode if your team has enough tankiness? Saw a game with Galio mid/Ali jungle/Jayce top, Jayce just basically eschewed any defenses and became a second AD carry for the team (BT/PD/IE), seemed to work pretty well for him.

Jayce is in my opinion a horrible ad carry since he lacks escapes. Steroid is pretty bad late game too. I'd get an IE PD on him, but I wouldn't do it with no armor and mr unless I was winning by a lot and wanted to have some fun.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
August 20 2012 19:10 GMT
#56
On August 21 2012 00:39 obesechicken13 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2012 23:47 Requizen wrote:
Do you all think that there's anything to transitioning into AD carry mode if your team has enough tankiness? Saw a game with Galio mid/Ali jungle/Jayce top, Jayce just basically eschewed any defenses and became a second AD carry for the team (BT/PD/IE), seemed to work pretty well for him.

Jayce is in my opinion a horrible ad carry since he lacks escapes. Steroid is pretty bad late game too. I'd get an IE PD on him, but I wouldn't do it with no armor and mr unless I was winning by a lot and wanted to have some fun.


I think the *real* problem is his 500 range. If it's 550 I will gladly play him as an AD carry. Very tanky, versatile kit, good pokes... what more do you want.

https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
August 20 2012 19:55 GMT
#57
500 is more than enough for top lane, though. I was talking about going boots/2 DBlades/Phage into AD carry stuffs + maybe TF later on and spend most of your time in Cannon shooting things. I find range to be less of an issue/advantage later on (except on certain champs with massive range like Kog or Trist). His lack of an escape doesn't seem too terrible, you switch to Hammer for the Armor/MR/sprint, then knock them the fuck back and run away. Better escape than many AD carries.
It's your boy Guzma!
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
August 20 2012 20:49 GMT
#58
On August 21 2012 04:55 Requizen wrote:
500 is more than enough for top lane, though. I was talking about going boots/2 DBlades/Phage into AD carry stuffs + maybe TF later on and spend most of your time in Cannon shooting things. I find range to be less of an issue/advantage later on (except on certain champs with massive range like Kog or Trist). His lack of an escape doesn't seem too terrible, you switch to Hammer for the Armor/MR/sprint, then knock them the fuck back and run away. Better escape than many AD carries.


500 is more than enough for the top lane I agree. I thought it was about playing him as the ADC for the bottom lane.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
August 20 2012 21:01 GMT
#59
On August 21 2012 05:49 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 21 2012 04:55 Requizen wrote:
500 is more than enough for top lane, though. I was talking about going boots/2 DBlades/Phage into AD carry stuffs + maybe TF later on and spend most of your time in Cannon shooting things. I find range to be less of an issue/advantage later on (except on certain champs with massive range like Kog or Trist). His lack of an escape doesn't seem too terrible, you switch to Hammer for the Armor/MR/sprint, then knock them the fuck back and run away. Better escape than many AD carries.


500 is more than enough for the top lane I agree. I thought it was about playing him as the ADC for the bottom lane.

Oh no, he has some decent matchups there (Jayce/Soraka poke comp is actually decent in some cases), but he's much more suited top lane. My whole train of thought was "play top but build AD carry if your team doesn't need another bruiser".
It's your boy Guzma!
Mondeezy
Profile Joined August 2011
United States1938 Posts
August 21 2012 16:01 GMT
#60
I still can't decide which item build to use on this guy.

I usually go Boots 3/4 -> 2x dblades ->phage(unless I need tabi for ranged harass, I get that first. sometimes i skip dorans if I'm fed on the first back) -> Vamp scep -> Trinity ->BT->FH or GA-> ???. Sometimes I throw in a hexdrinker if they have 2x AP or something.

What're you guys going?
LoL NA: Mondeezy - TL - Riven <3
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