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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On April 22 2013 05:26 GhandiEAGLE wrote: Has Trinity Force totally died on Jayce? It was great before his big nerf, haven't tested since. Pretty sure it was just secretly terrible and Jayce was so broken it didn't matter. | ||
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LaM
United States1321 Posts
Tear -> Spirit of Elder Lizard -> Boots 1 -> [Sometimes Brutalizer] -> Manamune/CDR Boots -> Last Whisper -> BT/Black Cleaver. It's pretty solid. You get the Brutalizer if you aren't getting blues. The reason you don't rush CDR boots is if you are going to get a Brutalizer, you want to finish manamune before buying CDR boots or it delays it too long. If you are rushing Manamune with no Brut, you can get the CDR boots before manamune. If you get a Brutalizer early you can finish the Black Cleaver after a vamp or even before a vamp if you want too, if you didn't get an early brut I like to get my full BT before I even worry about Black Cleaver. Skill order is QEQEQW then max Q>E>W and take 3 levels of R at 16/17//18. Works for top or mid, just usually at top lane you have to get the Brut and delay manamune and CDR boots while at mid you can get manamune and CDR boots faster and black cleaver later since you will max CDR with blue buff without needing a brutalizer. | ||
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Complete
United States1864 Posts
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LaM
United States1321 Posts
On April 29 2013 09:08 Complete wrote: Why would you rush spirit of elder lizard in lane? Because it is completely cost effective without the butcher passive and every stat that it gives to Jayce is awesome for him and only available together in that item? And then add free true damage... Are people still doubting the viability of elder lizard and spectral wraith in lane? I didn't know this was still a question, as both are more than cost effective even without the butcher passive and offer unique stat combinations that are perfect for a variety of champions. There's a reason players are getting both items from OGN all the way thru LCS. | ||
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Blyf
Denmark408 Posts
On April 29 2013 11:00 LaM wrote: Because it is completely cost effective without the butcher passive and every stat that it gives to Jayce is awesome for him and only available together in that item? And then add free true damage... Are people still doubting the viability of elder lizard and spectral wraith in lane? I didn't know this was still a question, as both are more than cost effective even without the butcher passive and offer unique stat combinations that are perfect for a variety of champions. There's a reason players are getting both items from OGN all the way thru LCS. Those who question elder lizard in lane must be the same people who think laundry listing a champion's abilities is an argument for (im)balance. Screw logic; intuition is too strong I guess. Lizard elder should probably be rushed on anyone who has mana and likes black cleaver, as the amount of free stats is ridiculous and the combination of health/mana regen + ad + cdr is perfect for laning. Kha, panth, talon, jayce and wukong are among the best users. | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
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Dusty
United States3359 Posts
 On April 29 2013 19:04 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: Can you explain to me the idea behind not taking points in R until 16/17/18? Is the first shot reduction and extra armor/mr not as good as damage in your opinion? I'm not the person you're asking but my most played champion is Jayce in ranked SO: Simply put, it's just not as good as the other options. Look at the stats you gain from leveling every other ability, and then look at R. The % shred isn't as useful in the earlier stages in the game as it is in the later stages. | ||
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LaM
United States1321 Posts
On April 29 2013 19:04 Dusty wrote: I do think it would be an interesting buy on Jayce. Although I have to disagree that black cleaver isn't good on jayce as anything but a 6th item I'm not the person you're asking but my most played champion is Jayce in ranked SO: Simply put, it's just not as good as the other options. Look at the stats you gain from leveling every other ability, and then look at R. The % shred isn't as useful in the earlier stages in the game as it is in the later stages. I just think having a core of Elder Lizard/Last Whisper/Muramana/CDR Boots is more important than a BC. After that it's pretty situational between Black Cleaver/BT/Maw/GA, maybe one or two other specialty items. It's definitely not bad on Jayce, and I used to buy Brutalizer and therefore BC more frequently, but after I started getting Elder Lizard I found less use for BC. I'm just in love with Elder Lizard as opposed to BC. Elder Lizard has the same gold efficiency for 1000 gold less (and I actually prefer the regen to 200hp, although you can debate that depending on the situation), with the tradeoff being a true damage passive vs the armor debuff passive of BC (which for me, often ends up being more dmg from the burn over the course of the game when I think about how much single pokes I do). EDIT: All that being said, I usually do get BC if I'm the top laner to maximize my CDR and be able to be a bit tankier midgame/deal a bit more damage to the other top laner. I really just don't like it mid, where I usually get blue buff to cap my CDR and am not fighting people with armor till a point where LW is way more effective anyways (and I'm not expected to be tanky at all). | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
It looks like people either go Q>E>W, or Q>W>E. What are the advantages and purpose of each? I mean Q>E>W looks like the pokey build, is Q>W>E more of a brawler thing? Also Korean players level his ult normally, but NA never do....hmmmm | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On May 02 2013 16:03 sob3k wrote: I just got Jayce because he looks cool and has skillshots and transforms, and I like all the other transforming champs. It looks like people either go Q>E>W, or Q>W>E. What are the advantages and purpose of each? I mean Q>E>W looks like the pokey build, is Q>W>E more of a brawler thing? Also Korean players level his ult normally, but NA never do....hmmmm Advantage of E is trading, advantage of W is taking towers. | ||
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Lmui
Canada6213 Posts
I've been personally going faerie charm + 5 health+ward+mana pot If you can shove the lane out hard early on, you can get a really early tear and consequently, really early muramana. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
On May 09 2013 15:03 Lmui wrote: With the nerf to fort pots, what has everyone been doing? I've been personally going faerie charm + 5 health+ward+mana pot If you can shove the lane out hard early on, you can get a really early tear and consequently, really early muramana. yea this is what I start, Muramune rush trumps all other builds until there is a balance change IMO, the damage you get from the active combined with your W is just insane @16-20 min. (except I usually go 4/2 on pots) | ||
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Lmui
Canada6213 Posts
On May 09 2013 16:19 Slusher wrote: yea this is what I start, Muramune rush trumps all other builds until there is a balance change IMO, the damage you get from the active combined with your W is just insane @16-20 min. (except I usually go 4/2 on pots) If your jungler starts blue on purple/red on blue, you can stay in base for another pot since with the speedboost from R you can get to lane without losing creeps. This allows for a 5/2 start or a 4/3, both of which allow you to be rather abusive in lane. | ||
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
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IamPryda
United States1186 Posts
I acutally just got jayce and have a question of my own What is the best all in combo order for jayce | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On May 23 2013 10:02 IamPryda wrote: Yorick comes to mind because he can out trade and poke jayce. Cho and wu can give jayce problems if played right I acutally just got jayce and have a question of my own What is the best all in combo order for jayce Ideally Starting from hammer R->wait~4 seconds, QEW->auto 1-2 times while kiting through the gate->R->QW auto 1-2 E. Insert ignite as early as possible. In practice you can skip the empowered range form auto, and melee form W. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On July 13 2013 10:17 Icysoul wrote: not sure if posted, but here's the changes coming to jayce in the pbe presented by Xypherous himself + Show Spoiler + Passive Statistics Shifting around his statistics to favor mana regeneration as Jayce should be more of an active laner focused around spells to achieve victory. The shift in regeneration should also compensate for the removal of Mana on Hit from Static Field. HP/5 reduced to 5 from 7 HP/5 per Level reduced to 0.5 from 0.7 MP/5 increased to 10 from 7 MP/5 per level increased to 1.0 from 0.7 Jayce may no longer level Transform but his abilities have 6 ranks. Hextech Capacitor Moved a portion of his transform passives onto his character passive. Additionally, Hextech Capacitor is weak at character levels 1-3 but stronger at 6 and 9 to smooth out power differences between the fact that he has multi-form abilities and no ultimate. * Now additionally grants 5 to 130 magic damage for the first attack after transformation, based on character level. To the Skies! To the Skies! had some early game spike power and late game spike power. Normalizing this curve such that you don't have to stack a ton of early Attack Damage or a ton of late Penetration in order to utilize this ability effectively for burst. * Mana Cost fixed at 30 at all ranks from 40/50/60/70/80 * Damage rescaled to 25/75/125/175/225/275 (+0.6 Bonus) physical damage from 20/65/110/155/200 (+1.0 Bonus) physical damage Static Field Static Field should encourage Jayce to stay in Hammer form and engage on his opponents for prolonged periods of time while his Cannon Transform is unavailable. Also experimenting with a W -> R -> W swap combo - though the current gameplay is a little unintuitive. * Passive mana gain on-hit removed. * Damage rescaled to 60/110/160/210/260/310 (+1) from 100/170/240/310/380 (+1) * Basic Attacks during static field now deal an additional 10/15/20/25/30/35 (+0.2) magic damage on hit. Numbers even more highly experimental and subject to change on this one. * Cooldown rescaled to 13/12/11/10/9/8 from 10 Thundering Blow Thundering Blow in top lane was often Jayce's easy-mode button. If Jayce was in a bad spot - he could simply Thundering Blow to escape. Aggressively gating the Mana Cost on this ability means that eventually, Jayce's second chances will run out. However, we wanted to preserve Jayce's engagement pattern if he chooses to be active - hence the To the Skies! Mana changes. * Mana cost fixed at 85 from 40/50/60/70/80 * Now has a rank 6 that deals 23% health damage and up to 700 magic damage versus minions. Transform: Mercury Hammer * Now grants 5 to 35 Armor and Magic Resistance, based on character level. Shock Blast Changes here are mostly to increase the dodgability of Shock Blast, especially from fog of war + acceleration gate circumstances. The acceleration of gate also favors using E after launching Q - as this will give the opponent the smallest amount of time to react. * Damage rescaled to 60/105/150/195/240/285 (+1.2 Bonus) from 60/115/170/225/280 (+1.2 Bonus) - Probably needs to be scaled up a tad. * Missile Speed increased to 1450 from 1350 * Missile Width decreased to 50 from 60. * Missile Area of Effect decreased to 160 from 175 * Accelerated Missile Width remains at 60. * Accelerated Missile Area of Effect decreased to 225 from 250 * Accelerated Shock Blast initial speed increased to 2550 from 2350 * Accelerated Shock blast now decays down to 1550 during flight Hyper Charge Hyper Charge harass becomes more dominating depending on the rank of the spell in a lot of cases. Early ranks of Hyper Charge tend to be less than mana efficient in a lot of ways. These changes are designed to reduce some of obtuse abuse cases of Hyper Charge with IE or priming the skill but to also make Hyper Charge's cost roughly equivalent to its effect. * Damage reduced to 70/80/90/100/110/120% from 70/85/100/115/130% * Critical strikes now simply add 100% of your total AD to the damage (this can be further modified by critical strike damage) rather than being dependent on the rank of the skill. * Cooldown rescaled to 14/12/10/8/6/4 from 14/12/10/8/6 * Cooldown now begins when Hyper Charge is fully consumed * Mana Cost rescaled to 30/38/46/54/62/70 from 40 Acceleration Gate Jayce brings Acceleration Gate as his primary team utility. The Jayce player should feel confident that his team contribution shouldn't be necessarily gated by his playstyle or what he is forced to build. The cooldown nerfs in 3.9 should control Gate''s spamminess and uptime - and thus the Mana Cost here seems to be unnecessarily restricting him to Mana intensive builds. * Mana Cost reduced to 20 from 50 * Has a 6th rank that increases Movement Speed by 55%. Transform: Mercury Cannon This proc effect was mostly unnecessary - while it ensured Jayce made it to late game, the combined effect of the proc means that Jayce effectively ignored far too much of his opponent's armor than was healthy. * No longer has an armor and magic resist reducing proc. source: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3650167 + Show Spoiler + Much needed jayce nerfs: mostly manipulated mana costs around in hammer form, with a moderate nerf on poke and small nerf on hyper charge. Need to see how his poke is affected by the speed decrease before making a final judgement on usability. I want to focus on Jayce's new hypercharge changes. I was never very good at using Manamune since I'm significantly slower at turning it into a muramana than pros are. In addition, getting a tear first makes you very weak early on so that if your enemy laner gets 2 dorans you have to play safe or you'll lose every trade and later die. Pros don't need to be strong early on, but at my level people are impatient and games are often decided around the time people get their first big items. One thing I liked on Jayce was IE. It was one of my more favorite builds and I felt it gave me more control over how teamfights went than tank Jayce provided (another weird build I did). Anyways as it turns out Jayce loses a lot of damage from the change on his W in the use case I did and he has to spend an extra skill point on Q W and E. He loses 25% of his W damage in my use case, and loses 12% of the damage on Q due to armor shred (not shown). He loses 100 damage going from 403 to 303 damage in my use case on his W. I don't play Jayce anymore (yay!) but I was thinking of returning to try him again as he's quite fun and I've potentially been unlucky with him. If these changes go through I will not even consider playing Jayce again until he's rebuffed. nvm.. there's a lot of things I haven't factored in. I don't know how the Jayce changes will work out for Jayce. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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nanospartan
649 Posts
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Phunkapotamus
United States496 Posts
On July 14 2013 02:31 Slusher wrote: even with the current nerfs I don't really like him anymore. the tear nerf added on like ~7-10 min to stacking it and if you don't have blue buff the wait between shockblasts is excruciating. Not trying to wine nerfs were deserved and I think he's still situationally good, but he's not very fun anymore. That's the real loss here. I wish every champ would be brought to old Jayce levels. The game would be so much more fun. More chaotic and twitchy, but more fun. | ||
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