EPTEdit:
Love her for the same reason. Her mobility is orgasmic. One of the few junglers I feel comfortable grabbing a relatively early Oracles (post-6) and just being a mapcontrol bitch.
[Champion] Shyvana - Page 4
| Forum Index > LoL Strategy |
|
Southlight
United States11766 Posts
Edit: Love her for the same reason. Her mobility is orgasmic. One of the few junglers I feel comfortable grabbing a relatively early Oracles (post-6) and just being a mapcontrol bitch. | ||
|
UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
On November 09 2011 08:46 Juicyfruit wrote: Teemo doesn't need to worry about being kited, has no burst even WITH infinity edge, and no AD scaling whatsoever. Shyvana's E is an on-hit effect, yes, but it's very very weak unless you level it up first, and even if you max it it's still pretty terrible since she's not a ranged hero naturally designed around kiting. Moreover, unlike teemo, it's not perpetual on-hit damage since you need to hit someone with E and then wack them within 4 seconds. Bad comparison. It's 40 damage per hit! That's FINE, lol, especially since you can proc it aoe. Whatever, build her however you want, but i edge and so on make no sense. Just build a wit's end. | ||
|
Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
On November 09 2011 10:13 UniversalSnip wrote: It's 40 damage per hit! That's FINE, lol, especially since you can proc it aoe. Whatever, build her however you want, but i edge and so on make no sense. Just build a wit's end. Sure but when you get that at level 18 it doesn't really look so good >.< | ||
|
phyvo
United States5635 Posts
| ||
|
UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
| ||
|
Wetty
Australia419 Posts
As for Shyvana's mobility, I love it. The movement speed increase from W feels like a lot - it can get you away from fights early on, or to them. Later on, it means without some sort of instant movement escape (flash etc.) people wont get away from you. And if they do, well you can turn into a dragon baby. I've had minimal trouble with people kiting me, due to the ability to close gaps easily with your ult. The trick is knowing when you can afford to be aggresive (Your ults up, is their escape down? Maybe your flash is up too?) and abusing that. The problem comes in focused cc in team fights, where you can be quite quickly disabled and killed if you've overexposed yourself into their team. Knowing when to get right up in the thick of their team and when to hold back a little is a skill that needs to be worked on to perfect Shyvana. But tbh, if your team is anywhere near by, they can usually punish an enemy team who's used so many cc's disabling you... Which is the idea! If they ignore you, wreck the carries, if they dont, your carries wreck them. | ||
|
Shizuru~
Malaysia1676 Posts
Bloodrazor can be build off ur initial razor, it gives armor, attack speed and some dmg and 4% hp per hit, yeh the 4% is magic dmg, then again so is every other spell from her.. | ||
|
Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
A moderate amount of attack speed and a sizeable amount of CDR is probably the best theoretically, I don't really know yet. I do know that bloodrazor is prooobably not worth it. Ghostblade is interesting but I'm not sure when you'd be building it since wriggles is great for jungle and you can't really delay BT or Warmogs for top. | ||
|
Wetty
Australia419 Posts
| ||
|
phyvo
United States5635 Posts
IMO clinches the idea for me that AD > other stats and that frozen mallet/red buff are really important, probably more important than PD. On November 09 2011 15:31 Juicyfruit wrote: I think attack speed is overrated on her. From my point of view, the 25% attack speed from runes is more than enough to spam Q + animation cancel, and much more than that and your Q starts becoming a burden on your DPS. One extra attack speed item tops, though that'll probably end up being wit's end since it's so goddamn cost-effective and all of the stats are juicy. A moderate amount of attack speed and a sizeable amount of CDR is probably the best theoretically, I don't really know yet. I do know that bloodrazor is prooobably not worth it. Ghostblade is interesting but I'm not sure when you'd be building it since wriggles is great for jungle and you can't really delay BT or Warmogs for top. Q at max rank with max CDR has a 3.1 second CD (3.6-0.5 seconds because second hit procs passive). To exactly fit 2 autos in before Q comes off CD (so you chain Qs) you need 2.1/2 = 1.05 AS, but with less AS you still get more or less a full Q every two attacks which is pretty super dang huge. The problem is getting CDR. Even with Q shyv isn't blue buff hogging material. GB is awkward because it's bad, but bruta early could be fine. Ionian boots seem like suicide but they seem like the only good option outside of CDR runes/masteries (which hardly cut it since they're so late game oriented). With 18% CDR from just boots/offense you'd instead be looking at wanting about 1.1 AS for Q every 4 autos and 1.47 for Q every 3 autos. IDK though, I'm really not sure CDR is worth it over just piling more AD/survivability/attack speed on, hard to say because the itemization sucks so hard. | ||
|
Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
Depending on their cc/escape, black cleaver theoretically provides some of the best stats for shyvanna, which combined with 31 armor pen setup gives her an effective 90armor pen. It also gives just enough attack speed to compensate for the lack of AS runes. Bloodthister is another interesting idea because her dragon Q lifesteals from everything at once. I don't like frozen mallet because she should be getting red buff if she's doing good, and she should be grabbing tankier items if she's not ,_, | ||
|
Southlight
United States11766 Posts
At least in jungle I run aspd red and blue, so I have decent aspd :< | ||
|
overt
United States9006 Posts
On November 09 2011 13:07 Shizuru~ wrote: What do you guys think about getting ghostblade or bloodrazor on her? i'm thinking of building a single "big" damage item and then going tanky for the rest of the slots, ghostblade gives CDR/attack dmg and some crit, the armor pen might be a questionable stat but ghostblade active should be a clutch steroid when used in conjunction with W.. Bloodrazor can be build off ur initial razor, it gives armor, attack speed and some dmg and 4% hp per hit, yeh the 4% is magic dmg, then again so is every other spell from her.. I hate Bloodrazor on most champions. It won't help you kill squishies any better than other builds (which should be your primary concern) and since most of the champions who have high health will also have a lot of MR it'll be pretty bad against them. If you want to build her full tank and just get one damage item I'd have to suggest Atmas or maybe Trinity even though I don't like it on her (but if you're only getting ONE damage item Trinity is good). I wouldn't build her full tank though, she gets 50 free Armor/MR and if you build Atmogs (and every Shyvana build should imo) she's pretty damn tanky. On November 10 2011 03:05 Juicyfruit wrote: For reference, with 25% attack speed she starts around 0.8-0.9AS at level 1, since her base attack speed is nice. Depending on their cc/escape, black cleaver theoretically provides some of the best stats for shyvanna, which combined with 31 armor pen setup gives her an effective 90armor pen. It also gives just enough attack speed to compensate for the lack of AS runes. Bloodthister is another interesting idea because her dragon Q lifesteals from everything at once. I don't like frozen mallet because she should be getting red buff if she's doing good, and she should be grabbing tankier items if she's not ,_, I need to try AS runes. Was thinking of getting Black Cleaver in a game too but haven't tried it yet. It sounds good on paper dunno when I'd fit it into my build though. Maybe get it instead of Wit's End although I'm not sure if I want to part with Wit's. I guess BC could be a good item for after Warmogs but eh. I get Bloodthirster in any game that lasts too long. Whether I lane or jungle her I usually get Wriggle's for the lane sustain or the obvious benefits of jungling. I like to sell Wriggle's for BT if the game goes long enough because life steal is pretty helpful when you have like 300 AD on a tanky DPS champion who's going to be standing in the middle of the entire enemy team. | ||
|
c.Deadly
United States545 Posts
| ||
|
Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
| ||
|
overt
United States9006 Posts
On November 10 2011 06:30 c.Deadly wrote: I've always been curious why Wit's End is universally recommended on Shyvana, I usually get Black Cleaver instead. I haven't played too many games with her though so maybe Wit's End is definitively better, has anyone tried builds without using Wit's End and might have some insight on this? Your mid game is a lot weaker. Not sure if your late game would be better or not but Wit's End is amazing mid game because AS is good on Shyvana and mid game also happens to be the time that AP carries shine so the MR from Wit's is very handy. You could probably replace it with something else like BC but eh...I didn't like replacing Wit's with BC due to the weaker mid game and I'm not sure what else I could put in Wit's place. | ||
|
phyvo
United States5635 Posts
On November 10 2011 02:38 phyvo wrote: Q at max rank with max CDR has a 3.1 second CD (3.6-0.5 seconds because second hit procs passive). To exactly fit 2 autos in before Q comes off CD (so you chain Qs) you need 2.1/2 = 1.05 AS, but with less AS you still get more or less a full Q every two attacks which is pretty super dang huge. <snip etc etc boring math> Before anyone gets confused, the numbers I calculated were wrong, lol. For one they were seconds per attack (in game it's attacks/second), for another some were just bad. So with 40% CDR for Q every 2 attacks you ideally would have .95 AS or 44% total IAS. With 18% CDR from boots/offense mastery the numbers would have been 1.65 AS (150% IAS) for 4 autos per Q and 1.02 AS for 3 autos per Q (56% IAS). Shyv gets 1.7% IAS per level for 30% total at 18. IDK if anyone cares but I hate saying something stupid that's not true. | ||
|
Southlight
United States11766 Posts
Edit: phyvo can you explain that in peasant terms? I'm totally confused at what your conclusion is @_@ | ||
|
phyvo
United States5635 Posts
As for the numbers in particular, they don't necessarily show anything except that the ideal IAS for free Q autos can be calculated fairly easily. I'd do a full DPS spreadsheet but doing that crap takes so much time, like a day per champ, it's a pain in the butt, and in the end *usually* it tells me stuff everyone already knows. | ||
|
Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
| ||
| ||
