EPTThat's not going to help that problem, its just going to make any early-game ganks deadly IF you can keep your health up without any pots at all.
[Champion] Riven - Page 9
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
That's not going to help that problem, its just going to make any early-game ganks deadly IF you can keep your health up without any pots at all. | ||
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Deltablazy
Canada580 Posts
I run the runes/masteries of this thread. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On November 13 2011 04:31 sylverfyre wrote: That's not going to help that problem, its just going to make any early-game ganks deadly IF you can keep your health up without any pots at all. Next thing I can suggest is watching your Valor CD. Stonewall espouses starting QWEE before going into a priority and it's worked decently well for me, the lower cooldown and bigger shield is nice. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23465 Posts
On November 13 2011 04:31 sylverfyre wrote: That's not going to help that problem, its just going to make any early-game ganks deadly IF you can keep your health up without any pots at all. You don't get BT and GA on jungle riven. That's a lane build you need to get BT fast and stack it up to be worth while. It's not really efficient otherwise. Try something like wriggles, mercs, 2-3 dblades, warmogs, atmas. or wriggles,mercs,phage,brutalizer,hexdrinker,atmas if you think warmogs is a bad idea. | ||
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snpnx
Germany454 Posts
Now for my question, anyone can give me advice on how to handle an Olaf top? I've had 2 games so far, and I feel his true damage really gets me. The first game I won my lane, but wouldn't have without constant help from our jungler. The second game I lost quite badly, though it was partly due to my team fucking up a gank and getting olaf an easy kill. In the end, I guess I just want a confirmation if Olaf is really as hard an opponent as I feel him to be, since I feel trades are not going well for me. I'm thinking of going some health very early, to negate the true damage a bit, do you guys think that's a good idea? | ||
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Takkara
United States2503 Posts
On November 14 2011 23:03 Slayer91 wrote: You don't get BT and GA on jungle riven. That's a lane build you need to get BT fast and stack it up to be worth while. It's not really efficient otherwise. Try something like wriggles, mercs, 2-3 dblades, warmogs, atmas. or wriggles,mercs,phage,brutalizer,hexdrinker,atmas if you think warmogs is a bad idea. I don't really see why you'd play Riven if your intent was to go Atmogs. There are far better junglers for whom Atmogs makes sense. I can see switching up what you buy, but it's not THAT hard to get a BT coming out of the jungle and Riven can farm off waves and/or split push to stack it up just fine. If you go Atmogs, wouldn't that just ignore the strongest part of Riven which is her scaling? | ||
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Navi
5286 Posts
On November 15 2011 07:06 snpnx wrote: Thanks for the great guide Navi, I love playing Riven, and this guide helped me have a lot of fun. Now for my question, anyone can give me advice on how to handle an Olaf top? I've had 2 games so far, and I feel his true damage really gets me. The first game I won my lane, but wouldn't have without constant help from our jungler. The second game I lost quite badly, though it was partly due to my team fucking up a gank and getting olaf an easy kill. In the end, I guess I just want a confirmation if Olaf is really as hard an opponent as I feel him to be, since I feel trades are not going well for me. I'm thinking of going some health very early, to negate the true damage a bit, do you guys think that's a good idea? my experiences are actually similar i've only played against solotop olaf twice first time was a loss because my noct got 2 shotted while trying to gank at level 3 for first blood second was a narrow victory with a noticeable mistake or two by him olaf might be one of the cases in which i would get a dorans blade or two after or whilst getting wriggles to ensure that you don't come out too far behind in lane most other people can't zone you 100% because of your shield and because most can't trade with riven in exchanges efficiently but olaf's true damage chunks out damage much larger than your shield at those levels nearly instantly olaf is winnable because in a long exchange your ult can deal more damage than him so with aid from a jungler to finish him off or with dorans blades i think it's playable, but tough i'm willing to test this out as either olaf or riven, if you want add me in game ign is navitar | ||
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Hoban
United States1600 Posts
On November 13 2011 05:06 Deltablazy wrote: I need some advice on laning against gp. He's broken ofc, but something can be done atleast. I run the runes/masteries of this thread. The biggest thing I have found against GP is be super aggressive when you have the creep advantage. You actually can trade very effectively, even if he gets the lucky Parley crits. Just open cloth+5pots and keep the early level aggression up. He will be oom before you run out of potions as long as you aren't just sitting taking free parley hits. If you just focus on being extremely aggressive in the early levels (and making sure to use creep waves to your advantage) then you will come out ahead enough in lane to keep up with him at the higher levels. Just remember, be super aggressive but don't sacrifice CS for it. The entire point of the aggression is to keep him scared to CS while you can freefarm. Side note: If you are quick enough, just keep a mental count of the Parrley CD and shield right as he uses it. The delay is very short but if you are anticipating it you can shield off a lot of the damage then proceed to hurt him badly. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
I tested it out and it was a marked improvement with that extra armor, reduced mob damage, and mob damage kickback. | ||
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Deltablazy
Canada580 Posts
On November 15 2011 07:12 Takkara wrote: I don't really see why you'd play Riven if your intent was to go Atmogs. There are far better junglers for whom Atmogs makes sense. I can see switching up what you buy, but it's not THAT hard to get a BT coming out of the jungle and Riven can farm off waves and/or split push to stack it up just fine. If you go Atmogs, wouldn't that just ignore the strongest part of Riven which is her scaling? This was my exact thought, I follow this guide when I play Riven, but then I see the Rivens in normal mode build atmogs, and they go on large killing streaks like 15/4/x and such. She gets pretty unkillable with that high HP and shield, and her W is no joke either. | ||
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snpnx
Germany454 Posts
On November 15 2011 10:49 Navi wrote: my experiences are actually similar i've only played against solotop olaf twice first time was a loss because my noct got 2 shotted while trying to gank at level 3 for first blood second was a narrow victory with a noticeable mistake or two by him olaf might be one of the cases in which i would get a dorans blade or two after or whilst getting wriggles to ensure that you don't come out too far behind in lane most other people can't zone you 100% because of your shield and because most can't trade with riven in exchanges efficiently but olaf's true damage chunks out damage much larger than your shield at those levels nearly instantly olaf is winnable because in a long exchange your ult can deal more damage than him so with aid from a jungler to finish him off or with dorans blades i think it's playable, but tough i'm willing to test this out as either olaf or riven, if you want add me in game ign is navitar Would've loved to try it out with you, but I'm on EUWest, and didn't find you there. (Guessing you're NA?) | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 15 2011 20:50 Gahlo wrote: What do you guys think of the new masteries on Riven? For jungling I'm thinking about switching to http://thefwcentral.com/lol/#&trees=0-3-0-2-4-4-0-0-1-0-3-0-0-0-3-0-1-1-2-3-2-0-0-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 I tested it out and it was a marked improvement with that extra armor, reduced mob damage, and mob damage kickback. Take Deadliness/Lethality, 100%. Even though you don't buy crit till somewhat late, it is by far the most point-effective set of masteries in offensive, and it's too insane to give up for Havoc, some small minion damage, and 1% CDR. | ||
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Navi
5286 Posts
On November 16 2011 01:50 Deltablazy wrote: This was my exact thought, I follow this guide when I play Riven, but then I see the Rivens in normal mode build atmogs, and they go on large killing streaks like 15/4/x and such. She gets pretty unkillable with that high HP and shield, and her W is no joke either. i guarantee you if you could go 15-4-x with atmogs you could go even or better with BT GA, at the very least right after you bought it you do more damage, your shield is stronger, and you have more relevant stats and if you're worried about HP amounts, you have more EHP with GA's passive on one revive as well as having lifesteal and if you consider the times when you just buy warmog vs just buying BT the difference is huge, you might be harder to instaburst with warmog but you tickle compared to what you could do with BT | ||
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Hoban
United States1600 Posts
On November 16 2011 02:47 TheYango wrote: Take Deadliness/Lethality, 100%. Even though you don't buy crit till somewhat late, it is by far the most point-effective set of masteries in offensive, and it's too insane to give up for Havoc, some small minion damage, and 1% CDR. I know you are discussing the proper jungling masteries but I disagree that Deadliness/Lethality is the most point-effective offensive masteries. Maybe you can enlighten me but here are my thoughts. Crit adds damage to only her autoattacks (her passive does not crit). Off the top of my head I would say my aa's account for about 1/3 of my total DPS. Crit adds survivability in that when you crit, you get more life back from bloodthirster+wriggles. CDR adds damage to only her abilities assuming you are using them on cooldown (which you should be). I am ignoring her passive in this case because once you get to ionians+brutalizer you have enough CDR where you cant effectively weave in an AA and still use everything on cooldown. CDR adds survivability by being able to use your shield more often. Just eyeballing the math, if we stick to the 2/3 damage from skills 1/3 from AA's model, 4% CDR is giving you roughly double the damage of 4% crit at the expense of some survivability (4% crit lifesteal gives a little more EHP than 4% CDR Shield). This also doesn't include the ability to stun more often with CDR. Throw in Lethality and you get a little more damage, but not enough to warrant not taking CDR. So now I would like to approach Deadliness/Lethality vs. Brutality. Again, the tradeoff is slightly more damage favoring brutality for slightly less survivability favoring Crit. A flat 1.5% increase to damage beats out a ~4.4% increase to AA damage. Now I could be completely wrong with all of this. I am just going off numbers/math in my head. It could be that a properly played Riven has 50%-60% of her damage come from AA's which would sway in definite favor of crit. Also, this is for lane Riven, not jungle Riven. I am not as familiar with Crit vs other stats in the jungle. I just know that CDR is a much better stat than Crit on her in general. Thoughts? | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 16 2011 05:45 Hoban wrote: Just eyeballing the math, if we stick to the 2/3 damage from skills 1/3 from AA's model, 4% CDR is giving you roughly double the damage of 4% crit at the expense of some survivability (4% crit lifesteal gives a little more EHP than 4% CDR Shield). This also doesn't include the ability to stun more often with CDR. Throw in Lethality and you get a little more damage, but not enough to warrant not taking CDR. I'm not saying to ditch all the points in CDR. Just 1 so you can fit in Lethality. On November 16 2011 05:45 Hoban wrote: So now I would like to approach Deadliness/Lethality vs. Brutality. Again, the tradeoff is slightly more damage favoring brutality for slightly less survivability favoring Crit. A flat 1.5% increase to damage beats out a ~4.4% increase to AA damage. You're looking only at the 4.4% AA damage increase from just the Deadliness crit. The moment you buy a crit cloak for IE or Atmas, that jumps up to a 6.2% increase, because of how Lethality scales off any crit you buy. And the amount of damage you do from autoattacks is definitely a lot more than 1/4 your damage. | ||
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Navi
5286 Posts
cdr is nice but not necessary because to maximize damage you space autoattacks between q rotations and other spells, like r-> e + w + q -> autos and q's -> ult active and repeat etc if you include time during which you're cc'd and stuff, the cd's on your spells are usually back off by the time you finish one rotation, even with 0 cdr, assuming level 5 w and e there are incidental sources of cdr (soul shroud, blue buff, blue elixir) that are available lategame as well that can easily reach 40% cdr such that runing for it is unnecessary and not that big of a deal | ||
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Hoban
United States1600 Posts
As an aside, how do you generally build her? My general build seems pretty standard: Wriggles, Ionians (unless heavy heavy heavy CC), Bruta, BT Almost always GA after this (Getting pieces as you need tem) From here I can never quite decide. I have been enjoying Frozen Mallet so I can take a stun and not be insta-gibbed. Other times I will finish Ghostblade. Sometimes I just say F it and do something stupid like get a Wits End (not as bad as you think, you can squeeze out a few more AA'S+passive in fights). I haven't really tried IE yet. I feel a little scared going for it, I always feel like I need some extra sort of survivability past GA. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Takkara
United States2503 Posts
I'm now REALLY excited about Riven jungle. She's got stronger with the new masteries, I feel. A lot stronger. Anyone else notice a change? PS : I have no idea if what I did was optimal on masteries, I'm messing around a lot. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On November 16 2011 13:01 Takkara wrote: The new masteries just made Riven's jungle feel super safe. Before I felt super weak on the first couple passes. This time, I didn't even need my pot. I started Vamp Scepter with this build: http://thefwcentral.com/lol/#&trees=1-3-0-2-4-0-0-0-1-0-3-0-3-0-3-0-1-1-2-3-2-0-0-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0. I went Wolves->Wraiths->Golems->Pill (Armor+Pot) -> Blue -> Wolves -> Gank Mid -> Wraiths -> Dual Golems -> Red. I was at full health after using my pot. I went QEWEW. Nothing much different than what I would normally do. I did use smite early on buff camps because that got the maximum uptime for Executioner. I'm now REALLY excited about Riven jungle. She's got stronger with the new masteries, I feel. A lot stronger. Anyone else notice a change? PS : I have no idea if what I did was optimal on masteries, I'm messing around a lot. I'm in love with bladed armor. Our babies will be healthy and unhuggable. Makes me laugh when small wolves are dealing almost as much damage to themselves as they are to me. | ||
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