EPT"confusing the enemy" what does that even mean lolwtf
[Champion] Riven - Page 37
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De4ngus
United States6533 Posts
"confusing the enemy" what does that even mean lolwtf | ||
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greggy
United Kingdom1483 Posts
re: rumble - allin him at 1 with dorans. if your jungler comes to help it's a guaranteed fb. you need to seriously dominate him before he gets to 6 and gets revolver because after that it's going to be a lot tougher. if he pushes you to the tower and keeps flamethrowing you from safe range, you're fucked. don't fight in his ult (obviously). | ||
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Bflomatiq
France40 Posts
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Craton
United States17234 Posts
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greggy
United Kingdom1483 Posts
On August 04 2012 16:22 Bflomatiq wrote: What about getting aegis and GA as riven top? I sometimes get aegis after BT if I completely dominate my lane. If you get it by like 20min and start roaming you're really strong. But usually, if you're picking riven, you have a tanky jungler who'll benefit from aegis more, or your support will be looking to get it eventually. It's pretty situational. GA is obviously core after BT. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On July 22 2012 07:36 arb wrote: + Show Spoiler + On July 22 2012 06:54 D u o wrote: A lot of guides are saying to go for a blood thirstier and so far it's worked out well but why go for a stacking item, isn't it risky? They only scale well if you're engaging in teamfights but you should only be dealing with top lane unless you're jungling and then it's a bit of a different story, but if you're 1v1 top solo you're in a situation where you're only going to be fighting that one person the whole game. Which seems like it reduces the chances to get stacks on it, and that you're missing out on half of the items potential. Wouldn't going for like a Bilgewater Cutlass and Brutalizer be better to go for? Since you get a heavy slow, and life steal earlier at the sacrifice of 10 damage, if you're just going to build a bilgewater. Bloodthirster is 3000g for 60 damage 12 lifesteal And its passive which grants lifesteal and damage for your kills after you get it. But this feels like its quite insignificant. Brutalizer + Bilgewater is 3162g for 60 damage 15 lifesteal 15 armor pen 10% CRD and 150 damage, 50% slow for 3 seconds The only downfall is that if you build a bilgewater first you're going to lose out on 10 damage at the cost of gaining lifesteal and the 150 damage and 50% slow for 3 seconds which is on a CD of 60 seconds, allowing you to bully or escape your lane even better. Anyone have any suggestions on why you should get a Bloodthrister or why not to get it? To me it just seems useless midgame because its passive isn't as good as a bilgewater + brutalizer and you'll have slots for them. If a riven got bilgewater against me i'd probably laugh in their face. Bloodthirster best item on her. Cris's riven gets bilgewater, it shits on a lot of people surprisingly, | ||
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HazMat
United States17077 Posts
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nyxnyxnyx
Indonesia2978 Posts
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GhostOwl
766 Posts
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greggy
United Kingdom1483 Posts
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
Properly played, riven will be forcing you to miss CS early and push the lane for a level advantage at 1-3. You MUST not get chunked by her when she has a level up on you this early or you're going to have to back when she has the minion wave pushed into your turret. Your goal is to survive and CS under/near turret until 6, pop your ult to clear the wave, then buy items. (Tabi + wriggles bits has worked very well for me in this matchup, phage seems good too, especially if you expect jungle pressure, YMMV) If you get jungle intervention before then (riven IS pushed up after all, right?) then you can turn it around and try to kill her. Not Nunu, Nunu gets crushed by riven. All she has to do is level up her E, get a hexdrinker and merc treads, and she can maul you and ignore your snowballs with her hopping around. Darius can outdamage riven in trades straight up, but is significantly easier to gank. And the thing about aegis, is for 700 more you have a GA, which is even more terrifying when you start roaming. I find however, that the lane phase usually breaks down sometime around when I finish my BT, and maybe I'll have a chainmail. Rather have a chainmail than 2 aegis bits at that point, or I won't have slots for wards. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35092 Posts
Kayle can be overcome by using the brush intelligently, but few Rivens know/do that. I've heard Darius is an troublesome matchup in lane, but I've personally laughed all Darius I've seen out of lane so I can't comment on how he's supposed to work well against her. | ||
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Bladeorade
United States1898 Posts
On August 05 2012 09:51 greggy wrote: darius, teemo, kennen, kayle and possibly nunu all do very well. a few others (notably irelia) can win with some jungler intervention. Kayle and Darius dump on her, Teemo loses at 6 or do a level 3 all in, kennen is a skill matchup between the 2 and Nunu gets rolled hard by Riven. Irelia can win by playing passive and farming. Also Tigerdyr can in the same fashion. On August 05 2012 10:42 Gahlo wrote: Teemo, Garen, Kennen, Trundle, Fiora, and Renekton are he hardest matchups in lane. I, personally have the most trouble with Teemo. Kayle can be overcome by using the brush intelligently, but few Rivens know/do that. I've heard Darius is an troublesome matchup in lane, but I've personally laughed all Darius I've seen out of lane so I can't comment on how he's supposed to work well against her. Garen is easy mode, he press Q you press W, he press E you press E. You outscale him and will be able to 1v1 him after harassing him down. Ken is not a hard lane IMO, skill both ways. Fiora? How so? You out damage, can stun while she has her ASpeed boost and can stick to her. Unless you are dumb with your ult and ult her as she ults I don't see how she can beat Riven but its probably more skill orientated than anything. Trundle will get outscaled and can't really kill you so just farm and ward since his gank assistance is good. Renekton is tough early and his 6 is as strong as yours so its tough, but another skill match up. Darius kills riven from level 1 and continues so until 6. Kayle wont let you in a bush if she is smart, at least not the one near her and if you ever engage on her you cannot back off without dying. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35092 Posts
On August 05 2012 10:55 Bladeorade wrote: Kayle and Darius dump on her, Teemo loses at 6 or do a level 3 all in, kennen is a skill matchup between the 2 and Nunu gets rolled hard by Riven. Irelia can win by playing passive and farming. Also Tigerdyr can in the same fashion. Garen is easy mode, he press Q you press W, he press E you press E. You outscale him and will be able to 1v1 him after harassing him down. Ken is not a hard lane IMO, skill both ways. Fiora? How so? You out damage, can stun while she has her ASpeed boost and can stick to her. Unless you are dumb with your ult and ult her as she ults I don't see how she can beat Riven but its probably more skill orientated than anything. Trundle will get outscaled and can't really kill you so just farm and ward since his gank assistance is good. Renekton is tough early and his 6 is as strong as yours so its tough, but another skill match up. Darius kills riven from level 1 and continues so until 6. Kayle wont let you in a bush if she is smart, at least not the one near her and if you ever engage on her you cannot back off without dying. All lanes can be properly played and won, doesn't make them any easier, though. I don't see how you're supposed to harass Garen down without opening yourself up to getting QE'd. Riven doesn't out trade Fiora early without care. Even if she does, the sustain from her passive makes up for it after the fight/csing and she can disengage with her Q. Riven gets most of her damage from her passive charged autos, which Fiora can parry one of. In essence, fighting with Fiora comes down to who budges first on using abilities. Fiora has stronger autos from higher AD and 31 +10% armor pen. Trundle fights against Riven well because his abilities force her to fight on his terms or back off. At 6 he cripples Riven's resistances, which she is already dependent upon. Trying to go into the bush that Kayle already zones you from is asking for trouble. You can harass Kayle with the standard EW engage, then hussle your butt into the brush with Qs, severely limiting the time you are open to reprisal because you're untargetable in the bush unless you're forcing her to ward it. Geting an early null-magic mantle cuts a lot of her early damage if you need it. Darius is fought easily by baiting out his Q to push the lane, exposing him to his gank weakness. If he lands apprehend you can just stun and dash away. It seems like with Kayle and Darius you're saying "well if you do this, this, and this wrong, you lose." Well just don't do that then! | ||
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Bladeorade
United States1898 Posts
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schmutttt
Australia3856 Posts
I know Riven outscales etc but I'm pretty sure Garen will win if you try to fight him pre 6, and you are better off playing passive. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35092 Posts
On August 05 2012 19:01 Bladeorade wrote: If it was that simple people wouldnt consider kayle a counter to riven. At which point in harrassding kayle like that are yiu getting cs? experience tells me you aren't. Mixed damage fucks riven. Udyr kayle darius. Sure riven is playable in those lanes but those three are the best counters Except it isn't as mixed as you think, and isn't as big of an issue with Doran's blades. Most of Kayle's damage early in the game is magic. The vast majority of Darius' non-truedamage is physical. Udyr is baited out of his activation bonuses, like Fiora is. Base MR, runes, and something as little as an early null-magic mantle gives you and effective 50%+ more HP against magic damage. Riven shouldn't play the same exact way against all matchups. Court of public opinion doesn't really know who Riven has issues with because there are a lot of BAD Rivens. The single hardest lane for Riven is Teemo. | ||
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Bladeorade
United States1898 Posts
Darius has a very strong dot that deals magic damage (and scales with AD) and then his true damage execute. The find it amusing that you say the vast majority of his non true damage is physical. Thats NP cuz he does a billion true damage rofl. Udyr baited out of his bonuses? So your cooldowns must be shorter than his yes? Or are you just not going in melee range to harass? You do realize Udyr can wait till you engage, bear -> tiger -> turtle. The magic dot from tiger is a huge amount of his damage (and it scales with AD.) Versus Garen you do play passive? I didn't mean it was an easy lane to kill him in I just meant it is an easy lane. You should never be in threat of dying. If he comes at you with Q, press W. If he uses Q for the MS boost with E, press your E and hop away. Try and save your 3rd hop for the CC on him after he uses his cooldowns. Its not difficult. It's like this: 1. Has Garen pressed Q? If yes Press W and run. If no farm. 2. Has Garen Pressed E? If yes press E and run, if no farm. 3. Has Garen used his offensive cooldowns cooldowns? If yes harass with Q, if no farm. 4. Does Garen have W up and its post 6? If yes refer to steps 1 2 and 3, if no refer to step 3 and consider pressing R and going all in. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35092 Posts
On August 06 2012 05:19 Bladeorade wrote: You buy an NMM against me as Kayle and I will laugh in your face. How is most of her damage magic? I play AD Kayle top, you know like BF sword after 2 dorans blades (and kayles magic damage scales with AD). While your hopping around trying to harass I'll be farming, and if your trying to farm I'll be blowing you up. Riven cannot farm vs Kayle, cannot engage vs Kayle, and Kayles ult counters Rivens. Darius has a very strong dot that deals magic damage (and scales with AD) and then his true damage execute. The find it amusing that you say the vast majority of his non true damage is physical. Thats NP cuz he does a billion true damage rofl. Udyr baited out of his bonuses? So your cooldowns must be shorter than his yes? Or are you just not going in melee range to harass? You do realize Udyr can wait till you engage, bear -> tiger -> turtle. The magic dot from tiger is a huge amount of his damage (and it scales with AD.) Versus Garen you do play passive? I didn't mean it was an easy lane to kill him in I just meant it is an easy lane. You should never be in threat of dying. If he comes at you with Q, press W. If he uses Q for the MS boost with E, press your E and hop away. Try and save your 3rd hop for the CC on him after he uses his cooldowns. Its not difficult. It's like this: 1. Has Garen pressed Q? If yes Press W and run. If no farm. 2. Has Garen Pressed E? If yes press E and run, if no farm. 3. Has Garen used his offensive cooldowns cooldowns? If yes harass with Q, if no farm. 4. Does Garen have W up and its post 6? If yes refer to steps 1 2 and 3, if no refer to step 3 and consider pressing R and going all in. I said most of her EARLY damage. Whether a lane is lost, even, or won with Riven comes down to early level play. Q and Esplash are magic damage. Does Darius' passive scale with AD? Yeah. But how many early AD items does Darius build? Not many. Base resistence, runes and masteries are enough to give me +50% effective health vs magic damage. I'm sorry, but you're going "this guys does all three types of damage" and saying I'm going to have trouble because of BY FAR his weakest outputed type. As for Udyr, it doesn't matter what my cooldowns are. Mine don't cost mana. I don't need to engage him because he falls off into lategame and I scale stupid well. Riven can win a lot of lanes by being passive and just flat out scaling better. Udyr is one of them. Sorry if I'm not too worried about magic damage on Riven, I know how to build a hexdrinker if need be. | ||
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