EPT[Champion] Udyr - Page 40
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Bflomatiq
France40 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23352 Posts
You shouldn't get phage unless you're fed and intend to get relatively fast trinity force. The slow is nice but it's hard to justify it when you could spend the same money for shurelyas which does the job better. However trinity is good enough to justify buying slightly worse items because it's so good once you get it. I mean, you'll have red buff for a decent amount of the game and the phage proc isn't that reliable considering the stats aren't great for an early game udyr. He really needs resists if you went fast double gp10 you basically spend your early game gold on items that are good but don't scale with your midgame kit optimally yet, you're looking to get chain vest, recurve bow and mercs asap and then after wits maybe just a shurelyas to boost your tankiness/mobility/regen all are pretty great or else just finiish a randuins/frozen heart. The more I've been thinking about it trinity force is something that you should be aiming for if you can get the farm. A lot of solo top udyrs will get it but if you think about it CDR is much better on tiger udyr because it directly increases your DPS while pheonix udyr really only uses it for turtle stance and a bit of bear stance uptime so it's much better on tiger udyr. However you find most pheonix udyrs going for CDR and most top udyrs going for trinity maybe GA before getting cdr. The reason is the extra farm and levels top just make it easier to finish trinity without falling behind in tankiness which is always #1 priority on udyr since if you can't melee because you die too fast you can't do anything during that time. I don't think vayne is a particularly good or bad pick against udyr, if he's going to manage to avoid third hit procs then you have no real advantage over a teemo or nidalee which are nearly ungankable and do much more damage early game. Udyr can't chase them either so it seems kind of pointless to pick vayne considering she's not that hard to gank because she's so squishy. I would pick udyr into vayne if I wanted to play him. You'll get away with vayne top against a lot of top laners but not many junglers. What can even say malphite do against you 1v1? But if you get ganked he just ults you and you're dead. I guess irelia//lee/wukong/xin might beat you if they jump twice before your 2nd e is on cd but I'm not sure. I remember voyboy beating vayne way back with prenerf irelia when he was getting harassed before he backed to base and got 6 and vayne was seen as a counterpick at the time (prenerf vayne too I think) but who knows how it is now. The main reason people don't play ad tops (even ones with good escapes, corki trist ezrael) is that double AD comp is extremely shaky and just outright loses to some stuff (most tanks; malphite, amumu, singed, nunu) because teamfighting with 1/2 your gold in the team too scared to commit to a fight when they're going on your tanks because of their ults still being up is an extremely awkward situation. It works if you can kite them though. Oh, and saintvicious is a good udyr player and if he was playing 1200's he could dominate with anything. Hell, I dominate high elo with udyr sometimes. I don't like ionic spark on udyr, if you need that quick fix AS you can buy a stinger, or more reasonably just hit Q before your R for the attack speed boost on lvl 3//5 Q as well as the bonus damage. As for build, it should look something like this: Decently farmed mostly from jungle, low amount of kills/deaths/assists: Mercs/wits/shurelyas/randuins at around 30-35 mins and probably finish off with a frozen heart if the game drags on, if they're AP heavy FoN is good and situationally GA is good. Trinity if you get fed after that point Fed: Mercs/philo/hog/chain vest/wits/trinity maybe even skip wits for it if they're not high on magic damage. Feeding/behind: You're pretty screwed, just try to get shurelyas+chain vest+negatron to try to make you tanky and forget about randuins for now. I know there's no aegis is there, I buy it situationally when I DONT get hog and I can get it fast. The thing about aegis is it gives pure tankiness essentially which is good but doesn't give you any mobility or regen which in practical poking/teamfighting/ganking is much superior than the more mathcrafty approach of stacking resists for you turtle shield. The issue is aegis leaves me with less time to finish a randuins which keeps me alive much better than aegis does when it comes to mid/late game while the early/early mid effectiveness isn't really that much higher compared to just a hog+a chain vest + a negatron. (Assuming hog is ticking for 10 mins or so). If I have enough money to buy it JUST as we're going for dragon I might get it just because of the aura though. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23352 Posts
HoG is still a good choice if you want randuins, but if you feel like you need the early game strength it's fine to not get it and just get a ruby crystal. Udyrs turtle shield and levels are pretty low early so it doesn't make that much sense to skip health items completely in the jungle. | ||
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Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23352 Posts
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Navern
26 Posts
 And need MS quints too. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23352 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23352 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Simberto
Germany11960 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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King of Blades
United States94 Posts
On September 01 2012 14:29 zulu_nation8 wrote: is there a hybrid udyr jungle build? No, because it sucks. Jungle phoenix, period. Lane tiger. | ||
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VashTS
United States1675 Posts
On September 01 2012 14:29 zulu_nation8 wrote: is there a hybrid udyr jungle build? http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=30605 | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23352 Posts
The only thing the early tiger points will give you i slightly stronger ganks but you basically give up your early teamfighting and counter ganking and farming strength so just play a champ like nocturne if you want to do that. the guys skilling order is completely trash his build is pretty trash and he's probably a pretty trash udyr player if he feels the need to get tiger stance AND pheonix stance. I think it can work if you get fed but you NEED to get fed. Although turtle stance got nerfed a lot so it might not be as bad as I think. I do wonder if 1 point in tiger at level 5 might be worth it, in ganks where you want to gank a lot, just because of the base scaling. I wouldn't do his stuff though, in teamfights with no turtle stance and no kind of regen or high resists unless he's super fed he'll just get poked down and he'll get low clearing jungle which means he needs to gank to be effective. I'd say try 1 point in tiger but the scaling is worse than turtle and pheonix but the base damage similar to bear stance is good. | ||
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On September 01 2012 16:40 Slayer91 wrote: if you ever feel like going to max tiger stance on udyr before like level 15 it means you just need to get more used to microing pheonix udyr honestly any hybrid build is trash because turtle and pheonix are too important and often bear is too. Getting 1 point in bear, 1 point in tiger, then maxing them as you see fit makes some sense. There is a point later in teamfights where you can get 1 hit of tiger but can't get 2 hits of pheonix, but it's not really justified at any other time. The only thing the early tiger points will give you i slightly stronger ganks but you basically give up your early teamfighting and counter ganking and farming strength so just play a champ like nocturne if you want to do that. the guys skilling order is completely trash his build is pretty trash and he's probably a pretty trash udyr player if he feels the need to get tiger stance AND pheonix stance. I think it can work if you get fed but you NEED to get fed. Although turtle stance got nerfed a lot so it might not be as bad as I think. I do wonder if 1 point in tiger at level 5 might be worth it, in ganks where you want to gank a lot, just because of the base scaling. I wouldn't do his stuff though, in teamfights with no turtle stance and no kind of regen or high resists unless he's super fed he'll just get poked down and he'll get low clearing jungle which means he needs to gank to be effective. I'd say try 1 point in tiger but the scaling is worse than turtle and pheonix but the base damage similar to bear stance is good. I tried the build seems like you get really low without the shield from turtle to keep you up. I always try to get a point in tiger kinda early though, say around lvl 7ish or something. The AS Proc + the retarded damage is always nice Dislike no philo in that build either. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23352 Posts
I think philo and mercs are pretty much core on udyr and everything after that you can make arguments for depending on your farm and the situation. That is tank items or wits//trinity force as viable items after that. | ||
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