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YouGotNothin
United States907 Posts
maybe this is the solution I've been looking for: http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=30605 seems interesting but so little turtle seems kind of scary to me, but then again turtle in teamfights is really only good for the shield which isn't that strong. | ||
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Lmui
Canada6223 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23352 Posts
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
It might be better if you add in wriggles to the tiger based jungle but the fact that phoenix can skip wriggles means a faster recurve or phage. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On July 26 2012 02:41 YouGotNothin wrote: I tried pheonix again and I just can't get kills on ganks, I find it hard to get 3 auto attacks off to proc the phoenix when people are running away, especially early levels, and if I don't proc it then I dont do shit for damage. maybe this is the solution I've been looking for: http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=30605 seems interesting but so little turtle seems kind of scary to me, but then again turtle in teamfights is really only good for the shield which isn't that strong. Maxing phoenix by 9 is what makes your jungle clear so ridiculously fast - it's not just for your level 1 clearing. Also, not having level 5 bear later on means your overall mobility takes a pretty significant hit since late game when travelling around you are often getting the movespeed steroid from hitting bearstance permenantly (with some CDR), and both the MS bonus and the duration increase when you level bear. Dropping that longer duration movespeed bonus also makes it harder to stick to targets in teamfights later on as well, which means you will get kited EVEN HARDER. Udyr already has enough problems getting kited - losing your extra movespeed won't help. Work on your stutterstep micro with udyr, you're so fast that if you can get 1 auto attack off, you can get all 3 off unless they flash. If they flash and you can't catch back up - you might rely on CC from your lanemate to determine this - don't worry, it's still a successful gank. From there you can pitch a tent in the brush, go farm a few jungle camps and re-gank, or leave your laner with the slight advantage that a burnt summoner provides. DO NOT FLASH AFTER THEM UNLESS IT IS A SURE KILL. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 26 2012 02:41 YouGotNothin wrote: I tried pheonix again and I just can't get kills on ganks, I find it hard to get 3 auto attacks off to proc the phoenix when people are running away, especially early levels, and if I don't proc it then I dont do shit for damage. When are you buying boots/boots 2? Typically you gank with red buff, but even without it, boots MS advantage + Bear Stance should keep you on them for 3 hits. If you're buying/upgrading boots too late, then yeah it'll be hard to stick on ganks. But typically you should be hitting boots 2 at the same time as, or even earlier than, most laners. | ||
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Shadowpostin
Germany798 Posts
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Bladeorade
United States1898 Posts
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Shadowpostin
Germany798 Posts
On July 26 2012 04:38 Bladeorade wrote: You don't need MS quints on Udyr...I think Udyr benefits more greatly from either AS or Armor quints in the jungle. Having that much MS is overkill. If you have issues proccing phoenix on Udyr, get better. Period. Bear in attack, R move attack move attack move attack. MS is the best stat early game by far. Armor quints on udyr are the biggest waste because you clear without taking any damage anyway,you are not a top lane to justify that much armor.I don't know much about As quints but if it doesn't get you to a breaking point where you clear that much faster it isn't worth it.All the AS you will ever need you get with rbow. Udyr is all about MS,there is no such thing as overkill on MS early game for a jungler(unless you need some other stats that bad which udyr doesn't) | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 26 2012 04:51 Requizen wrote: On Skarner, I've been doing Philo - Boots - Kindle - Merc's - Reverie for really early super-sprints. Good for Bro-dyr as well? More situational. Skarner has the obvious gain in initiating power, but Reverie isn't as big of an increase to Udyr's teamfight strength, and he doesn't need the regen stats as much as Skarner does. It's still a powerful ganking item in long laning phases, but I wouldn't get it as often as I do on Skarner. | ||
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On July 26 2012 04:57 TheYango wrote: More situational. Skarner has the obvious gain in initiating power, but Reverie isn't as big of an increase to Udyr's teamfight strength, and he doesn't need the regen stats as much as Skarner does. It's still a powerful ganking item in long laning phases, but I wouldn't get it as often as I do on Skarner. I don't think ive ever needed reverie enough to get it over Wits end early | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 26 2012 05:13 arb wrote: I don't think ive ever needed reverie enough to get it over Wits end early Not really a good comparison. Assuming you're already getting Philo, the timing of Shurelya's is 800 gold sooner, plus Shurelya's is more influential in ganking bottom lane (Udyr has a harder time ganking past wards than many other junglers, and Shurelya's drastically increases the strength of your in-lane ganks). The bigger issue is that Shurelya's doesn't improve Udyr's straight teamfighting power as much as Aegis or Wit's, so you have to expect a long laning phase or get a few kills off of it to justify it in comparison to more immediately powerful teamfight items. This is unlike Skarner because Shurelya's is a critical teamfighting item for Skarner, regardless. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23352 Posts
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YouGotNothin
United States907 Posts
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SagaZ
France3460 Posts
<so good for pestering mid lane at every ocasion possible you still clear faster with ms quint than with as quints cause moving between camps is the most time consuming thing you do in the jungle with phoenix | ||
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Arisen
United States2382 Posts
1) When is the appropriate time for boots2? Typically I rush philo>HOG I never know when to start merc treads or when I should just be starinting my first damage item. I watched a game from saintvicious at low elo where he finished wits end before even starting boots2, but this seems a bit slow 2) Wits>Phage or Phage>Wits? I've been rushing wits because in my ELO usually you can get ganks without phage, but I dont know if I'm just being greedy 3) After Phage and wits are made, what do you build? Sometimes I want to finish reverie, sometimes I go Randuins, I'm not sure which is better 4) What do you build if you want to carry your team? IN that gae with saint he built the wierdiest items (ionic spark and shit), but he absolutely dominated the entire game. Probably mostly to do with him being a 2500 ELO player in 1200, but I feel sometimes I'm really ahead but can't really make enough things happen with Randuins/Reverie | ||
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On August 02 2012 13:09 Arisen wrote: I have a few questions on Udyr itemization. 1) When is the appropriate time for boots2? Typically I rush philo>HOG I never know when to start merc treads or when I should just be starinting my first damage item. I watched a game from saintvicious at low elo where he finished wits end before even starting boots2, but this seems a bit slow 2) Wits>Phage or Phage>Wits? I've been rushing wits because in my ELO usually you can get ganks without phage, but I dont know if I'm just being greedy 3) After Phage and wits are made, what do you build? Sometimes I want to finish reverie, sometimes I go Randuins, I'm not sure which is better 4) What do you build if you want to carry your team? IN that gae with saint he built the wierdiest items (ionic spark and shit), but he absolutely dominated the entire game. Probably mostly to do with him being a 2500 ELO player in 1200, but I feel sometimes I'm really ahead but can't really make enough things happen with Randuins/Reverie Truthfully when i build Udyr i'll usually go boots > philo > hog > boots 2 > wits/aegis > aegis/wits > randuins or shurelias as needed(game usually ends by this point) but if i get retarded fed i'll get a triforce or something | ||
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