No, you play standard. You need to figure out if it's AD or AP kennen. If it's AD you probably want wriggles, if it's AP philo/hog is viable and wits end/mercs are what you really want, hexdrinker is alright too.

Watch his auto attacks, don't get hit when his W is up, you might lose a cs but he has to miss cs if he wants to save his auto to hit you and W. Once you get out of the early game you can free farm or try to deny/dive him depending on how your team is doing map control wise. You E to him and force him to E and then your next E will catch him and chunk him.

Here's an example from yesterday I think I played against an AP kennen.
http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/608358/

I did fine in lane, my biggest mistake was losing too many cs to try to damage him. It's easy to lose focus on cs and it's important not to. The game was a lost cause after lane though because we had a jungle and mid main going bot and forcing the bot lane mainers to go jungle and mid

(scumbag fnatic)

It's similar to bruiser nidalee, but she's a bigger problem cause of the cougar form. If you respect the auto hits and take the safe auto hits while your shield is up and manage your mana and hp well and once you hit some items you will start to bully them.

That kennen is a 2639 elo top lane main player as well it's not just your random scrub. (#6 EUW)

Ferrose

United States11378 Posts

July 16 2012 15:19 GMT

#723

Thanks for the replay, I think I learned a lot from it. You did a good job of not getting stunned in bad spots and dodging his Q then making him burn his E with your Bear active, and eventually you could even just WEQ up to him and not even care, even got Kennen to blow his ult to escape once.

Slayer91

Ireland23335 Posts

July 16 2012 15:25 GMT

#724

Yeah, you also need to be patient and sit back and lose the marks on you similarly to losing cs on malph to get your passive up, it's usually worth it. A kennen with a stun can at the very least deny 1 cs as well as some free damage.

The reason I bought hexdrinker was because I had to back I think and I couldn't finish my wits end.

obesechicken13

United States10467 Posts

July 17 2012 03:28 GMT

#725

Yeah I don't think ap kennen has enough damage to break through turtle stance and push back the phoenixed wave. He has to max W since Q won't hit through the minions so it's on a longer cooldown. I can see AD kennen being a bigger problem but maybe wriggles is enough to handle that.

To be honest I expected you to win lane quite handily in the replay. By that I mean that I expected you to be able to push the lane to his tower, and force him to back whenever you got a trade with kennen because quite frankly it's hard to stay away from udyr all the time if you don't have a slow or on demand stun. Then there's the tendency of damage to stick to kennen and not to udyr.

I don't think you won the lane considering you were even on cs in a 0-0 lane with little jungler influence from both sides. Tl:dr expected udyr to win. Though staying about even with a 2600 kennen player when all he wanted was a way to stay even in the lane is still pretty awesome.

Slayer91

Ireland23335 Posts

July 17 2012 10:23 GMT

#726

Eh, it's doable to "win lane" against ap kennen but you need map control to do that. You basically keep running at him and trying to make him back and that's such a retardedly easy bait for kennen. Fizz and jarvan are running around with 10-15 kills together you think I can push my lane? The guy said he had trouble laning against kennen. If you even or greater cs against kennen that's a win for udyr in my book I don't really feel like kennen is stronger later on at all.

Also kennen wasn't trying to stay even, if he was he would focus on csing and not constantly trying to harass me, it's just he couldn't do anything the more I got farmed.

AD kennen isn't really a problem either because basically the only threat is his W procs just avoid those and get a wriggles and if there was debate about AP kennen being happy with an even lane AD kennen certainly isn't.

Honestly I rarely pick udyr to win lane if I get ahead in cs in any lane I'm happy. I usually first pick him or at least before their top meaning they are the one's who usually pick something that isn't going to lose to him anyway, combine that with udyr being easy to gank early on and I'm happy not to die in the first 15 minutes and I almost always win if I do.
I've wrecked some shens with udyr when shens first picked tho, he's also very good against renek if you don't get tower dived by him and his jungler before level 6.

Chexx

Korea (South)11232 Posts

July 18 2012 04:16 GMT

#727

thinking about buying udyr for some top or jungle action.

Does he have some hard counters? How does he held his ground against riven or wukong?

schmutttt

Australia3856 Posts

July 18 2012 05:51 GMT

#728

On July 18 2012 13:16 Chexx wrote:
thinking about buying udyr for some top or jungle action.

Does he have some hard counters? How does he held his ground against riven or wukong?

From my experience against Riven it isn't great, you can win the lane if she doesn't abuse you early and you get enough armor (I remember being even vs a Riven and once I had tabi/wriggles I got a kill and had wardens, she couldn't do anything after that). Against Wu I haven't played the lane so no idea but would imagine it would be a farm lane.

Mogwai

United States13274 Posts

July 18 2012 07:43 GMT

#729

On July 18 2012 14:51 schmutttt wrote:

Show nested quote +

udyr is like, the only champion that can outtrade riven level 1. Seems like he should win the matchup to me. He stomps the shit out of Wu too. General rule of thumb is that if they're strictly Melee vs. Udyr, they're boned.

Alaric

France45622 Posts

July 18 2012 08:42 GMT

#730

Wukong is basically boned against anything that can build armor without gimping itself, or have sustain. Udyr can go tabi-wriggles and still truck thanks to tiger proc, and turtle is a lot of damage mitigation + sustain. Hi there sad monkey.

czylu

477 Posts

July 18 2012 10:10 GMT

#731

On July 18 2012 16:43 Mogwai wrote:

Show nested quote +

Outside of Lee Sin: His spell vamp burst from W->E/Q will out heal your turtle stance.

Slayer91

Ireland23335 Posts

July 18 2012 10:28 GMT

#732

Udyr beats//is fine against lee after a few levels you shouldn't be getting hit by his q normally just stick around creeps.
I don't care how much you heal if you're aoeing a whole creep wave you automatically aren't going to be a threat to udyr because now your lane is pushing and you have to be worried about having W up to get away from ganks if you don't have a ward and you can't harass me under tower either.

Your main problem is early jungle ganks because you can die easily and you're often screwed if you fall behind early.

Broetchenholer

Germany1947 Posts

July 18 2012 12:08 GMT

#733

Well, Vlad is really scary against Udyr. If you can't kill him early on, you are so screwed. Had a game yesterday in which i landed 2 Tigers + ignite at level 1 flashing behind him to get 1 or 2 autos for first blood when their jungler showed up. The rest of the laning was basically me dieing uncontrollably under my turret.

Slayer91

Ireland23335 Posts

July 18 2012 12:14 GMT

#734

You don't have to let vlad make you his bitch, unlike kennen he has no real escape except pool which is basically the same as you tigering him so as long as you don't get baited you just need to go for him instead of letting him harass you under tower all day when he gets higher level.

Broetchenholer

Germany1947 Posts

July 19 2012 14:43 GMT

#735

Hm, how do i do that, i see this being possible if i can just walk up to him and procc tiger, but if he runs fast enough, i can chase him all day, the second i turn around i get sucked out. If i bear first i am losing a lot of mana. I don't see me constantly putting pressure on him. But that's a problem i have with all good sustainers with a free (or more free) poke. even if i get him fairly low, he will just suck some minions and be back, while i need to be in his aa-range to get my health and mana back, as well as last hitting. Are MS-Quints obligatory for lane-udyr?

Slayer91

Ireland23335 Posts

July 19 2012 16:43 GMT

#736

Just bear stance is enough you won't be running out of mana once you have maxed turtle stance its only 35 mana and regens a fuckton. Don't get ms quints.

Requizen

United States33802 Posts

July 19 2012 17:10 GMT

#737

On July 20 2012 01:43 Slayer91 wrote:
Just bear stance is enough you won't be running out of mana once you have maxed turtle stance its only 35 mana and regens a fuckton. Don't get ms quints.

Does that go for jungle as well? I can't really see any other quints being super useful for him aside from MS for ganks or AS quints (which I don't have)

Slayer91

Ireland23335 Posts

July 19 2012 17:13 GMT

#738

Jungle is totally different you're not laning and you're not using tiger stance.

Offhand

United States1869 Posts

July 19 2012 19:09 GMT

#739

What quints do you use in lane instead? AD?

Slayer91

Ireland23335 Posts

July 19 2012 19:13 GMT

#740

AD reds, armour yellow flats
then either
1: armour quints/mr/lvl blues
2: mr quints/flat mr blues
3: attack speed reds, ad quints (against say irelia who does true damage and don't need resists)
it's almost always 1 or 2.