EPT[Champion] Udyr - Page 36
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Ecael
United States6703 Posts
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101toss
3232 Posts
The way I cheese is with flat ad quints/reds as his q scaling is absurd (in addition to 1:1 scaling on autoattacks), armor yellows (or ad yellows for super cheese). Ms quints aren't really needed since you have flash and you will be getting boots. For even cheesier play, throw in a crit chance blue for that once in a lifetime crit. You open boots (dblade is risky since it's easier for them to escape, but if they think they can take you on...) and can go 21/9 for more killing power or 9/21 for chasing ability (ms mastery). You hide in the bush until they attempt to last hit a creep. When they do, you proceed to 100to0 them in about 5 seconds by tiger proccing once, punching them once or twice, then applying a 2nd tiger proc, with ignite for the ad/true damage bonus. Only counterplay I know is to avoid last hitting creeps or play heal/ignite dblade pantheon or something like that. I'm gold elo so I have a general understanding of this game (ie am not absolutely god awful) Also I'm pretty sure it's a bug but it's been there for a while | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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101toss
3232 Posts
Get that first blood though, and you've probably won your lane. Trust me, you'll get that first blood pretty often, especially since most people don't expect the double tiger proc burst at level 1. The people in this thread saying the proc doesn't last for more than 5 seconds are the most likely victims  Key edit: the 15+ AD rune page setup is MANDATORY. It gives you 27.5 bonus magic damage per proc, in addition to 15 bonus to your autoattack. Essentially, 15 AD gives you around 100 bonus damage. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
You can easily run a standard page with ~10 ad do the same thing and they're not first blooded but they get screwed over at level 1 and can't trade with you. If their jungler can't gank until 3-4 minutes then you have him zoned for the early section of game. | ||
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101toss
3232 Posts
On July 11 2012 23:35 Slayer91 wrote: Why is it all in? You're missing 1 or 2 cs or something and the jungler won't be there the second you come into lane. It's not like you're camping the brush for the first 30 seconds or anything. You can easily run a standard page with ~10 ad do the same thing and they're not first blooded but they get screwed over at level 1 and can't trade with you. If their jungler can't gank until 3-4 minutes then you have him zoned for the early section of game. Hmmm... I must have been doing the camping part wrong lol Also, to get the first blood you gotta go balls to the walls (although the 15 ad page isn't too unorthodox, it's just ad reds and quints), that includes drawing minion aggro and tower diving at level 1 if necessary (usually the burst is high enough to kill them before they get to safety). And I'm out there for blood, not zoning. Maybe I should stop playing normals with my unranked friends... tl;dr fuck zoning, i want blood | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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101toss
3232 Posts
On July 11 2012 23:52 Slayer91 wrote: I don't understand why you feel compelled to do that instead of just coming to lane while he's pulling say if youre purple get tiger in the bush and as he comes from river for first cs double tiger him or at least force a flash and level one and no special tactics required. Anyone who reacts smartly can just insta flash and run if he has the same movement speed so no matter how good you are you will only kill someone who underestimates you because he didn't know about the double tiger proc. That's why you take your own summoner flash and finish him. This is also why 21 defense [optional] and boots are used for the opening build. While zoning gives you an advantage, level 1 first blood pretty much signals a won lane (barring jungler intervention). I'm not bashing your conservative playstyle (it's certainly safer), I just personally like going all in (hence why I occasionally take ad yellows) Also this is league of legends, no one reacts smartly. They just act less retarded. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
And your argument is "nobody plays smart" while previously saying "I only play normals with unranked people". Yeah.. Overall sounds like a good surprise element tactic but nothing really cheesey about it if they get caught it's their own problem and you can do the same thing with garen at lvl 1/2 but garen isn't so viable right now. (or so people think, I don't think he's that bad honestly) | ||
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101toss
3232 Posts
On July 11 2012 23:58 Slayer91 wrote: There's no possible angle you can take that will make you flash closer than he is as long as he flashes away from you and goes around the river instead of flashing over you towards tower. That's if they get caught as well if they see you coming out of the brush and run away fast enough towards the river they should be safe as well. And your argument is "nobody plays smart" while previously saying "I only play normals with unranked people". Yeah.. Overall sounds like a good surprise element tactic but nothing really cheesey about it if they get caught it's their own problem and you can do the same thing with garen at lvl 1/2 but garen isn't so viable right now. (or so people think, I don't think he's that bad honestly) While your flash may not bring you in range, the boots ms advantage can close the gap, allowing for the 2nd tiger proc. Stutter stepping also helps as it reduces the distance when you attack the first few times. This is theorycrafting, ingame results may differ (it's gone both ways) Also, yeah, playing against baddies doesn't help my claims :s Perhaps I can playtest it against fellow TL members when I am online (currently in China so can't play reliably) And on garen, he's bad, 40 armor rune page is just too good. Add in dodge boots and a chainvest/lantern and he does nothing. Even against Irelia. Of course, if your opponent doesn't know what armor is... (protip you probably know, autoattack then q reset for tons of early damage) | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
Also, pretty much everyone starts boots top lane, maybe 5% of cases they won't, what people start with when you're playing? | ||
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101toss
3232 Posts
On July 12 2012 00:14 Slayer91 wrote: Garens strong in lane even against armour stackers, because armour stacks mean you don't die most people still won't win trades versus him. The issue is he needs to win lane hard to justify him. Also, pretty much everyone starts boots top lane, maybe 5% of cases they won't, what people start with when you're playing? Garen falls off hard lategame if he doesn't get super fed/deny opponent's lategame.. So, to beat garen, you just make it to mid/lategame by buying a chainvest or something so you won't die early. Besides, if you want early game ad caster that doesn't fall off TOO hard, renek is much better, he gets free arpen, a double flash, and a stun. It's kinda like vs leblanc where all you do is live through early game (heard of 13pot swain?) and win because the other champ falls off. People start cloth/5, boots/3, dblade, regrowth, mostly cloth/5 (this is solo play, with my friends I will see amp tome first lol). Boots are pretty common, so you take boots to match them (and possibly ms masteries to catch up). Haven't seen a nullmantle/2 opening while cheesing as udyr, but I did destroy a 13pot kaiser. That regen won't save you from tiger burst That reminds me that udyr's damage is hard to itemize resistances against with the AD runes, since he does tons of autoattack and magic damage (also true damage w/ ignite) | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
There are annoying cheesy plays in the game but they generally happen in organized play. In normals, I often just stayed by the tower until I saw my lane opponent because for all I knew, there were 2 people hiding in the brush at top. You could go through the river but you wouldn't know if there was someone waiting for you in the tribrush, river brush, or if the enemy jungler could coordinate a gank on you with their top. In a team game, certain 1v2 strategies are just broken. Like if you and 3 D levels faced flash, then 2 of you could just 5 pool him and the other 2 could get enough marines and zealots to break his front lines. Killing one person quickly was a common strategy in starcraft BGH. The trick was just doing it to your opponents before they did it to you. I could do the safe thing and just stand in range of my tower until you showed up at the creeps first, but then I wouldn't know if I were giving up an advantage where you just dc'd. You could also just stay in the brush forever and get experience. There's a lot of overpowered crap in this game that we generally never have to deal with in solo queue play. But you'll see people in tournaments do crap like put 2 top with blue buff urgot bot, and have support ali and taric come mid at level 1 to get a kill. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On July 12 2012 09:16 obesechicken13 wrote: Normally I go into lane with my minions, checking the brush as they walk by. If you hit me as udyr, can't I just kite you through my minions? I don't think this is too powerful. There are annoying cheesy plays in the game but they generally happen in organized play. In normals, I often just stayed by the tower until I saw my lane opponent because for all I knew, there were 2 people hiding in the brush at top. You could go through the river but you wouldn't know if there was someone waiting for you in the tribrush, river brush, or if the enemy jungler could coordinate a gank on you with their top. In a team game, certain 1v2 strategies are just broken. Like if you and 3 D levels faced flash, then 2 of you could just 5 pool him and the other 2 could get enough marines and zealots to break his front lines. Killing one person quickly was a common strategy in starcraft BGH. The trick was just doing it to your opponents before they did it to you. I could do the safe thing and just stand in range of my tower until you showed up at the creeps first, but then I wouldn't know if I were giving up an advantage where you just dc'd. You could also just stay in the brush forever and get experience. There's a lot of overpowered crap in this game that we generally never have to deal with in solo queue play. But you'll see people in tournaments do crap like put 2 top with blue buff urgot bot, and have support ali and taric come mid at level 1 to get a kill. I remember playing one normal draft where I was top. Other guy was top and mysteriously, I didn't see mid or bot by 2:10. Other guy for whatever reason last hits one minion and goes to hide in the bush. I wait out level 2 and then I'm like fuck it, I can run like an inch and flash to tower so I go take a CS. 4 people blow flash and exhaust/ignite to kill me basically instantly. Won that game because mid and bot were hopelessly ahead of their lanemates(4 people sharing exp&farm off one lane generally doesn't go well. Definitely one of my least favourite games of all time though. | ||
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101toss
3232 Posts
On July 12 2012 09:16 obesechicken13 wrote: Normally I go into lane with my minions, checking the brush as they walk by. If you hit me as udyr, can't I just kite you through my minions? I don't think this is too powerful. There are annoying cheesy plays in the game but they generally happen in organized play. In normals, I often just stayed by the tower until I saw my lane opponent because for all I knew, there were 2 people hiding in the brush at top. You could go through the river but you wouldn't know if there was someone waiting for you in the tribrush, river brush, or if the enemy jungler could coordinate a gank on you with their top. In a team game, certain 1v2 strategies are just broken. Like if you and 3 D levels faced flash, then 2 of you could just 5 pool him and the other 2 could get enough marines and zealots to break his front lines. Killing one person quickly was a common strategy in starcraft BGH. The trick was just doing it to your opponents before they did it to you. I could do the safe thing and just stand in range of my tower until you showed up at the creeps first, but then I wouldn't know if I were giving up an advantage where you just dc'd. You could also just stay in the brush forever and get experience. There's a lot of overpowered crap in this game that we generally never have to deal with in solo queue play. But you'll see people in tournaments do crap like put 2 top with blue buff urgot bot, and have support ali and taric come mid at level 1 to get a kill. If you hug your tower while I camp the bush and get xp and everyone else is in lane, you're going to fall behind really fast When I get back from CN in a week I'm willing to 1v1 people top | ||
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mordek
United States12704 Posts
On July 11 2012 14:48 101toss wrote: arb is correct when it comes to the double tiger proc (except for the half hp melting part, it should be full hp :D ), which is why I brought it up in the first place lol The way I cheese is with flat ad quints/reds as his q scaling is absurd (in addition to 1:1 scaling on autoattacks), armor yellows (or ad yellows for super cheese). Ms quints aren't really needed since you have flash and you will be getting boots. For even cheesier play, throw in a crit chance blue for that once in a lifetime crit. You open boots (dblade is risky since it's easier for them to escape, but if they think they can take you on...) and can go 21/9 for more killing power or 9/21 for chasing ability (ms mastery). You hide in the bush until they attempt to last hit a creep. When they do, you proceed to 100to0 them in about 5 seconds by tiger proccing once, punching them once or twice, then applying a 2nd tiger proc, with ignite for the ad/true damage bonus. Only counterplay I know is to avoid last hitting creeps or play heal/ignite dblade pantheon or something like that. I'm gold elo so I have a general understanding of this game (ie am not absolutely god awful) Also I'm pretty sure it's a bug but it's been there for a while Dear 101toss, Thank you for the first blood. -mordek | ||
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Fus
Sweden1112 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
Udyrs good against bascially everything. | ||
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Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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