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On February 07 2012 04:28 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2012 02:47 zulu_nation8 wrote:On February 07 2012 02:22 Seuss wrote:Gangplank is a low-risk, high-reward jungler. His worst case scenario isn't all that bad because his skills bring so much to a team even without any items. In normal circumstances he's strong, and in his best case scenario he walks all over the enemy team. There aren't many who can still meaningfully contribute to a teamfight when underfarmed and underleveled. There are precious few who can do that and build into a carry if the game goes well. Kayle is really the only other jungler who can do both, but she doesn't fit universally into team compositions the way Gangplank does. As a good reference, here's a scrim TL B played recently. I was on Gangplank and got fairly schooled by the enemy team. Despite my complete non-presence early game and general inexperience as Gangplank I still contributed to teamfights and helped win the game. http://www.own3d.tv/video/431643 I've always view GP as high risk low reward since you don't have the sustain needed to stay in the jungle and you don't have the kit to clear camps fast. Ganks are super powerful but if you don't succeed you are almost certainly behind the other jungler. The point about sustain confuses me. On your first clear you should have blue buff, and so long as you spam W you'll be high health. Thereafter you'll be a higher level and should have either Vampiric Scepter or Philo, at which point sustain is no longer an issue. What kind of sustain issues are you seeing, and what's the build you're using?
Really? W is a 80 health heal on a 22 second CD, you're not outhealing jungle (let alone gank) incurred damage with that. With Blue that's still 17.6 second cooldown, a minuscule amount of healing compared to other jungle champions.
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On February 07 2012 04:52 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2012 04:28 Seuss wrote:On February 07 2012 02:47 zulu_nation8 wrote:On February 07 2012 02:22 Seuss wrote:Gangplank is a low-risk, high-reward jungler. His worst case scenario isn't all that bad because his skills bring so much to a team even without any items. In normal circumstances he's strong, and in his best case scenario he walks all over the enemy team. There aren't many who can still meaningfully contribute to a teamfight when underfarmed and underleveled. There are precious few who can do that and build into a carry if the game goes well. Kayle is really the only other jungler who can do both, but she doesn't fit universally into team compositions the way Gangplank does. As a good reference, here's a scrim TL B played recently. I was on Gangplank and got fairly schooled by the enemy team. Despite my complete non-presence early game and general inexperience as Gangplank I still contributed to teamfights and helped win the game. http://www.own3d.tv/video/431643 I've always view GP as high risk low reward since you don't have the sustain needed to stay in the jungle and you don't have the kit to clear camps fast. Ganks are super powerful but if you don't succeed you are almost certainly behind the other jungler. The point about sustain confuses me. On your first clear you should have blue buff, and so long as you spam W you'll be high health. Thereafter you'll be a higher level and should have either Vampiric Scepter or Philo, at which point sustain is no longer an issue. What kind of sustain issues are you seeing, and what's the build you're using? Really? W is a 80 health heal on a 22 second CD, you're not outhealing jungle (let alone gank) incurred damage with that. With Blue that's still 17.6 second cooldown, a minuscule amount of healing compared to other jungle champions.
Which is why you run vamp cepter and use the fact that you have more damage output than any other jungle to sustain yourself with lifesteal. Hell, I get lower on shyvana when clearing the jungle than I do when I jungle GP.
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On February 07 2012 05:00 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2012 04:52 Requizen wrote:On February 07 2012 04:28 Seuss wrote:On February 07 2012 02:47 zulu_nation8 wrote:On February 07 2012 02:22 Seuss wrote:Gangplank is a low-risk, high-reward jungler. His worst case scenario isn't all that bad because his skills bring so much to a team even without any items. In normal circumstances he's strong, and in his best case scenario he walks all over the enemy team. There aren't many who can still meaningfully contribute to a teamfight when underfarmed and underleveled. There are precious few who can do that and build into a carry if the game goes well. Kayle is really the only other jungler who can do both, but she doesn't fit universally into team compositions the way Gangplank does. As a good reference, here's a scrim TL B played recently. I was on Gangplank and got fairly schooled by the enemy team. Despite my complete non-presence early game and general inexperience as Gangplank I still contributed to teamfights and helped win the game. http://www.own3d.tv/video/431643 I've always view GP as high risk low reward since you don't have the sustain needed to stay in the jungle and you don't have the kit to clear camps fast. Ganks are super powerful but if you don't succeed you are almost certainly behind the other jungler. The point about sustain confuses me. On your first clear you should have blue buff, and so long as you spam W you'll be high health. Thereafter you'll be a higher level and should have either Vampiric Scepter or Philo, at which point sustain is no longer an issue. What kind of sustain issues are you seeing, and what's the build you're using? Really? W is a 80 health heal on a 22 second CD, you're not outhealing jungle (let alone gank) incurred damage with that. With Blue that's still 17.6 second cooldown, a minuscule amount of healing compared to other jungle champions. Which is why you run vamp cepter and use the fact that you have more damage output than any other jungle to sustain yourself with lifesteal. Hell, I get lower on shyvana when clearing the jungle than I do when I jungle GP.
I guess, his clear speed just feels so slow and painful at the early levels. I mean, E's boost isn't that high until you level it up somewhat, and without the AoE that some champs have, he's not charging through the jungle at high speeds. Like, with Shy/Skar/Birdyr I feel like I avoid a bunch of damage just by killing shit super fast.
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On February 07 2012 05:10 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2012 05:00 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 07 2012 04:52 Requizen wrote:On February 07 2012 04:28 Seuss wrote:On February 07 2012 02:47 zulu_nation8 wrote:On February 07 2012 02:22 Seuss wrote:Gangplank is a low-risk, high-reward jungler. His worst case scenario isn't all that bad because his skills bring so much to a team even without any items. In normal circumstances he's strong, and in his best case scenario he walks all over the enemy team. There aren't many who can still meaningfully contribute to a teamfight when underfarmed and underleveled. There are precious few who can do that and build into a carry if the game goes well. Kayle is really the only other jungler who can do both, but she doesn't fit universally into team compositions the way Gangplank does. As a good reference, here's a scrim TL B played recently. I was on Gangplank and got fairly schooled by the enemy team. Despite my complete non-presence early game and general inexperience as Gangplank I still contributed to teamfights and helped win the game. http://www.own3d.tv/video/431643 I've always view GP as high risk low reward since you don't have the sustain needed to stay in the jungle and you don't have the kit to clear camps fast. Ganks are super powerful but if you don't succeed you are almost certainly behind the other jungler. The point about sustain confuses me. On your first clear you should have blue buff, and so long as you spam W you'll be high health. Thereafter you'll be a higher level and should have either Vampiric Scepter or Philo, at which point sustain is no longer an issue. What kind of sustain issues are you seeing, and what's the build you're using? Really? W is a 80 health heal on a 22 second CD, you're not outhealing jungle (let alone gank) incurred damage with that. With Blue that's still 17.6 second cooldown, a minuscule amount of healing compared to other jungle champions. Which is why you run vamp cepter and use the fact that you have more damage output than any other jungle to sustain yourself with lifesteal. Hell, I get lower on shyvana when clearing the jungle than I do when I jungle GP. I guess, his clear speed just feels so slow and painful at the early levels. I mean, E's boost isn't that high until you level it up somewhat, and without the AoE that some champs have, he's not charging through the jungle at high speeds. Like, with Shy/Skar/Birdyr I feel like I avoid a bunch of damage just by killing shit super fast.
Your goal on jungle GP is to get a wriggles as fast as you can then just keep farming, using your ult in the place of ganks almost. Then you just rely on the fact that no one in the game scales as hard as you do into late game.
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the point is with that set up he still gets behind if he doesnt get successful ganks, i run the standard set ups for every jungler with standard item order.
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On February 07 2012 06:15 zulu_nation8 wrote:
the point is with that set up he still gets behind if he doesnt get successful ganks, i run the standard set ups for every jungler with standard item order.
Except that you can gank bot while farming wolves. Or ult to defend a gank, putting their jungler behind or even you ahead. Or hold top and defend a push bot. You can get +150% gold from small camps, +20% for medium. Always farm, never back. He's not "way down at bot lane, failed gank now I gotta run to wolves just to keep jungling... may as well back" when he misses a gank, he just has his ult on cd. I mean jesus, you can gank two lanes at the same time!
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On February 07 2012 04:52 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2012 04:28 Seuss wrote:On February 07 2012 02:47 zulu_nation8 wrote:On February 07 2012 02:22 Seuss wrote:Gangplank is a low-risk, high-reward jungler. His worst case scenario isn't all that bad because his skills bring so much to a team even without any items. In normal circumstances he's strong, and in his best case scenario he walks all over the enemy team. There aren't many who can still meaningfully contribute to a teamfight when underfarmed and underleveled. There are precious few who can do that and build into a carry if the game goes well. Kayle is really the only other jungler who can do both, but she doesn't fit universally into team compositions the way Gangplank does. As a good reference, here's a scrim TL B played recently. I was on Gangplank and got fairly schooled by the enemy team. Despite my complete non-presence early game and general inexperience as Gangplank I still contributed to teamfights and helped win the game. http://www.own3d.tv/video/431643 I've always view GP as high risk low reward since you don't have the sustain needed to stay in the jungle and you don't have the kit to clear camps fast. Ganks are super powerful but if you don't succeed you are almost certainly behind the other jungler. The point about sustain confuses me. On your first clear you should have blue buff, and so long as you spam W you'll be high health. Thereafter you'll be a higher level and should have either Vampiric Scepter or Philo, at which point sustain is no longer an issue. What kind of sustain issues are you seeing, and what's the build you're using? Really? W is a 80 health heal on a 22 second CD, you're not outhealing jungle (let alone gank) incurred damage with that. With Blue that's still 17.6 second cooldown, a minuscule amount of healing compared to other jungle champions.
Whether or not other champions can heal for more is largely irrelevant when the matter at hand is GP's ability to sustain himself while jungling. My experience is that he can to the point where even without a leash on blue he can do a full clear and still have health left over to gank. W contributes to that, even if it's "miniscule" compared to another champion's sustain abilities.
On February 07 2012 06:15 zulu_nation8 wrote:
the point is with that set up he still gets behind if he doesnt get successful ganks, i run the standard set ups for every jungler with standard item order.
The point I was trying to make is that Gangplank being behind isn't a big deal. He's not Shaco or Xin Zhao, junglers who depend upon being fed to be remotely effective later. That is why he's low-risk, his worst case scenario is that he still contributes a lot to teamfights. He's high-reward because his best case scenario is that he gets fed and carries hard, and because his ganks are strong it's not an unlikely scenario.
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On February 07 2012 06:31 seppolevne wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2012 06:15 zulu_nation8 wrote:
the point is with that set up he still gets behind if he doesnt get successful ganks, i run the standard set ups for every jungler with standard item order. Except that you can gank bot while farming wolves. Or ult to defend a gank, putting their jungler behind or even you ahead. Or hold top and defend a push bot. You can get +150% gold from small camps, +20% for medium. Always farm, never back. He's not "way down at bot lane, failed gank now I gotta run to wolves just to keep jungling... may as well back" when he misses a gank, he just has his ult on cd. I mean jesus, you can gank two lanes at the same time!
That's kind of an absurd post. So you do nothing but farm until 6, then do nothing but farm unless your ult is up? It's a strong skill, but its not 100% to guarantee a kill or even anything close to it. If anything passive+E is stronger from a jungling perspective.
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On February 07 2012 06:46 Requizen wrote:
That's kind of an absurd post. So you do nothing but farm until 6, then do nothing but farm unless your ult is up? It's a strong skill, but its not 100% to guarantee a kill or even anything close to it. If anything passive+E is stronger from a jungling perspective.
I'm not necessarily saying you should do this, but what's wrong with farming constantly unless his ult is up? The thing's on like a 1 minute cooldown and frankly if you're ganking more often that you're just wasting time that you could be farming.
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On February 07 2012 06:55 arnath wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2012 06:46 Requizen wrote:
That's kind of an absurd post. So you do nothing but farm until 6, then do nothing but farm unless your ult is up? It's a strong skill, but its not 100% to guarantee a kill or even anything close to it. If anything passive+E is stronger from a jungling perspective. I'm not necessarily saying you should do this, but what's wrong with farming constantly unless his ult is up? The thing's on like a 1 minute cooldown and frankly if you're ganking more often that you're just wasting time that you could be farming.
Don't get me wrong, I use it and abuse it, but on a ~2 minute CD (120/115/110), if you're doing nothing but running through the jungle until it's up, that's a large amount of time that you're not doing much for your team.
I'm all for farming and scaling into the late game, but I just feel that junglers need a decent presence in the early/mid game or else their team falls behind, especially if the enemy jungler is abusing the fact that you never leave the jungle and go gank your allies.
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On February 07 2012 07:00 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2012 06:55 arnath wrote:On February 07 2012 06:46 Requizen wrote:
That's kind of an absurd post. So you do nothing but farm until 6, then do nothing but farm unless your ult is up? It's a strong skill, but its not 100% to guarantee a kill or even anything close to it. If anything passive+E is stronger from a jungling perspective. I'm not necessarily saying you should do this, but what's wrong with farming constantly unless his ult is up? The thing's on like a 1 minute cooldown and frankly if you're ganking more often that you're just wasting time that you could be farming. Don't get me wrong, I use it and abuse it, but on a ~2 minute CD (120/115/110), if you're doing nothing but running through the jungle until it's up, that's a large amount of time that you're not doing much for your team. I'm all for farming and scaling into the late game, but I just feel that junglers need a decent presence in the early/mid game or else their team falls behind, especially if the enemy jungler is abusing the fact that you never leave the jungle and go gank your allies.
The big thing is you cant try to force ganks. Playing GP and ganking constantly would be like picking ww and ganking constantly before you hit level 6. GP has a very strong gank, but you need to know WHEN to use it.
As much flack as I get for constantly differentiating between TOO and SV- this is where it is HUGE. You cant play GP the way TOO likes to play, constantly supporting lanes. You need to be farming your ass off and only ganking when you are assured a kill or near kill.
GP is a jungle which requires serious skill to play out. You NEED to be able to constantly and correctly assess where you can help and where you cannot, and farm the rest of the time.
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i think there is no such a thing like stable item build.Every build is distinctive related to game but Gangplank is so powerful hero and everybuild can be choosen for him
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What do the GP gods think of Phage and then Wiggles for an opening? Starting with boots 3 of course
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United States37500 Posts
On February 16 2012 06:18 Shelke14 wrote:
What do the GP gods think of Phage and then Wiggles for an opening? Starting with boots 3 of course
Top lane, this is a fairly standard opening vs another AD brusier. Boots or Cloth opening, Wriggles, Phage. If you're ahead, straight to Trinity. Enemy has a lot of burst and CC, stay Phage and go Atmog's.
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No point in going phage before wriggles though. Cloth 5 into lantern is just so strong at top in almost every matchup that it's dumb not to do it.
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I'm looking for some advice on GP top against Swain...I feel I played the match up wrong, but does Swain counter GP after a few levels?
I took TP/Flash, boots/3 and traded somewhat higher. I went back for dblade and then I started getting just completely zoned out and unable to farm. I dropped a death and basically only had 2/3s his farm by the end of the lane. In that situation should I have just rushed Philo stone so that I'd have the mana to Q more often? The Swain froze his lane pretty perfectly in mid and there was nothing I could do (neither of us received jungle pressure).
Edit: Also, general question, for going against Top APs like Rumble/Swain/Vlad, is it even worth getting a delayed wriggles anymore, or should I stick to keeping a couple dblades and moving on to phage etc.
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On February 28 2012 04:08 PartyBiscuit wrote:
I'm looking for some advice on GP top against Swain...I feel I played the match up wrong, but does Swain counter GP after a few levels?
I took TP/Flash, boots/3 and traded somewhat higher. I went back for dblade and then I started getting just completely zoned out and unable to farm. I dropped a death and basically only had 2/3s his farm by the end of the lane. In that situation should I have just rushed Philo stone so that I'd have the mana to Q more often? The Swain froze his lane pretty perfectly in mid and there was nothing I could do (neither of us received jungle pressure).
Edit: Also, general question, for going against Top APs like Rumble/Swain/Vlad, is it even worth getting a delayed wriggles anymore, or should I stick to keeping a couple dblades and moving on to phage etc.
swain in particular is a real beast top lane, and crushes a lot of melee. GP can mitigate a bit of it with oranges, but he's still gonna have serious problems, almost regardless of what you do. No comment on the other 2. Honestly, I think you shoulda gotten chalice in that particular case. If you're already losing, philo is a bad buy, as your immediate power level drops significantly given the gold cost. Typically you buy gp5 items when it looks like it's gonna be a farm-fest lane. It also doesn't help that you didn't have an offensive summoner, which you kinda need vs swain, tp won't really cut it.
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double dblade -> phage is good vs. AP top laners imo. you can get wriggle's if you desperately need the armor and sustain boost, but sitting on 2 dblades is fine. GP would get ruined by swain, but as with all swain top matchups, you should just call for early jungle help as swain can be snowballed against with early jungle ganks, as his first 3 levels are complete ass and in the long top lane, he can just get fucked really easily by ganks.
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So how do you lane against Warwick? I am stronger early game but after a few levels he just gets too much sustain from his q and I can parrrley him anymore, its pretty much wasted mana. Do I need to go in offense mastery to deal more damage? Or rush some magic resist to counter his q and passive damage?
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On March 02 2012 19:34 Xedat wrote:
So how do you lane against Warwick? I am stronger early game but after a few levels he just gets too much sustain from his q and I can parrrley him anymore, its pretty much wasted mana. Do I need to go in offense mastery to deal more damage? Or rush some magic resist to counter his q and passive damage?
I never really run anything but 21 in offense on GP. It's just too good not to do it, at least imo.
Against WW, you could try executioner's calling, but basically, if you don't ruin him really early on, he wins the lane once he gets his Wriggle's/Glacial. I'd call for an early gank and then basically threaten a kill every time he returns to the lane.
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EPT
