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9871 Posts
Regarding the earlier argument that wriggles + bloodrazors jax is simply worse shaco: that's not an argument against the build really, it's one in favor of shaco or against jax, whichever way you prefer to parse it.
On December 21 2010 15:08 ZeeMan wrote:
Even dyrus only has a 43% win ratio with jax. Jax is fun, but despite all this searching for item builds that will make him good, I don't think theres any way to build him that will make him viable until he is patched.
I agree, jax is simply worse than, say, xin.
I think we all know this, though, when we're discussing item builds we're talking about the best build on a strictly fun character, even though we're trying seriously to optimize him.
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Quote dyrus himself, don't just blindly quote stats from troll games. If you had seen his games yesterday you would realize that they were simply trolling and doing pimp stuff that most of the times would end badly.
Jax is viable, dyrus' official stance on him is that he needs to play him more since riot will continue pushing the metagame in favor of melees.
Comparing jax, the highest dps melee who has to harass and jump/bait to be successful to xin, a burst-only melee dps is retarded. At least compare him to Yi or something.
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If Riot keeps nerfing taunts and tank stuns, ranged carries will be much harder to protect and play. This will make melee carries (like Jax) more viable (and even preferable in some circumstances) in games.
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Quick question: vandal jax or angler jax?
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On December 22 2010 18:35 r33k wrote:
Quick question: vandal jax or angler jax?
angler 100%
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9871 Posts
Alright, say he's worse than good ones, or OP ones, whatever, he's clearly not really ever the best pick
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casters are still teh gay if you're jax. -.-
Doing a few normals this morning I am almost convinced that it's probably better to get rageblade as your 1st item and playing passive while farming real hard instead of boing rylai+redpot and trying to stay relevant.
Exhaust is the gayest thing ever. Since normals are actually used by hospitals as a rehabilitation system to lobotomy patients you will run into 3+ copies of it every game. It got me raging so hard....
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Tabi-->Malady/Rageblade-->cutlas-->Malady/Rageblade u herd it here first son
Although they're gonna patch jax they said? Makes sense. Pantheon has a jump, which stuns, does damage, AND blocks the next attack. Jax has.. a jump. (It does slightly more damage than a normal hit but resets the hit timer swing thingy)
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base dmg on aegis is insanely low. the dmg part of that skill is largely negligible, its the other 2 parts that make his jump good. hell, even with a 1:1 ratio and building ap, aegis still feels like it does nothing. dunno why
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I love laning against jax, he's like xin zaos little brother that never got any love 
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The real problem with jax's jump is that it sucks dix. Range is too low, it is almost useless defensively and you can jump 15% of the walls that say kat or gragas can go through. GRAGAS FFS! A FOOKING LARDASS CAN MAGICALLY SIFT THROUGH WALLS AND THE ONE CHARACTER WITH AN ATHLETIC BACKGROUND AND A REALISTIC JUMP ANIMATION FAILS TO LEAP THROUGH ANYTHING.
No but srsly, an effect like the WoW warriors' intervene would be nice. At least jax would be able to do anything in a duo lane.
edited for android keyboard being a mess-.-
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ooh intervene would be baller
I've only been able to survive long enough to counter-strike in fights if I get both banshees and quicksilver after my guinsoo's. Tabi and dodge runes have physical damage covered, but the rise in people getting SotD is making meh sad.
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I've played a bit of Jax in solo queue pubstomps this week, and I've always religiously gone rageblade and survivability. Although it's probably not a huge deal, I'm becoming less and less sold on rageblade. In most fights I leap in and ult and hope I don't die in the next few seconds. If I actually manage to accumulate charges on rageblade, chances are I've already won, with or without it.
The majority of fights, it's like leap in on the carry -> take burst, oh shit I'm almost dead, leap out -> squishy-chasing duty around the edges of the fight.
Either that or blow ghost, leap in, get cced, try to chase squishies who are running around in a panic.
Neither of these give me a chance to get stacks because I'm too busy chasing or being chased.
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I recently have bought Jax and have been having some fun with him. (Along with a couple major problems)
Skill Order
W, Q or E (Q if you think it can net a kill E otherwise), other spell from Q/E, W, W, R then R > W > Q > E
Item build I like to use :
Cloth Armor + 5 health pots (For double laning, should last quite a while)
Tabi
Rageblade (normally the staff first because it is cheaper and 40 AP helps more then 25 damage)
Stark's Fever (life steal component first before recurve bow)
By this point it should be late mid game and you are able to kill just about any hero you may encounter, especially if they attempt to gank you while you have just killed a minion wave.
Items afterwards :
Last Whisper - I haven't tried this one yet, however I suspect that the bonus 40% armor pen is well worth the 2k cost. Especially if they slightly stack armor.
Infinity Edge - Not as good as I expected it to be, although it does allow you to hit semi constant 500s which is a nice boost.
(Mana drain item, I forgot the name) - I found this to be just about a waste of money. Jax hits hard and fast but most casters have enough spare mana that the mana drain means literally nothing against them.
Phantom Dancer - Personally I really like this though the more I'm looking at it the less helpful it appears. It doesn't help his passive at all. The 15% MS is really nice along with the 30% crit and the 55% AS speeds up collection of charges. The only part I'm not sure about is if it boosts his AS way over the cap which would defeat a major component of this item.
Survivability items - I haven't really tried to get these yet because my core build lacks later game damage. Though I tend to be focused and die frequently.
Though a big problem I've found so far is the game play. I really enjoy pushing lanes as Jax and keeping my Rageblade charges by using Empower at the last second. This makes it very easy to clear creep waves and towers. However this often leaves him open to multi member ganks which he has no way out of. This often leads to my death and hence slight feeding of the enemy team.
In a regular team fight I tend to wait around for the tank to initiate empower then jump in and hope for the best, frequently dieing, is there any better / other way to do this without dieing as often? Because I often can have the most kills and deaths on my team no matter whether we win or lose.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Also anybody know whether to run Ghost or Flash? Because right now I'm trying Flash and it works well for duking / positioning. However is ghost more useful in general on him? I can't decide about this seeing how I always like to run exhaust to limit 1 AD carry for about 3 seconds and aid in chasing / early game kills.
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Just farm as hard as you can and try not to stray from farming too much. He's that much stronger than almost any other champ after triple potting, so use that to your advantage when your team is ready to force a teamfight.
Rageblade
Gunblade
Guardian Angel
Max elixirs
Resistance crap or penetration
Sounds like a reasonable build to me. Rageblade + gunblade gives you the core damage you need. The lifesteal / spell vamp on gunblade lets you survive longer than you normally would.
Guardian angel because you'll definitely be the first one focused in teamfights, and yet you're quite a bitch to take down and you'll most likely have done a number on their team before you die. Guardian angel lets you come back in time to cleanup. Spellvamp + lifesteal lets you go on after you revive, assuming your team isn't wiped out or running away while you're reviving.
He gets really tanky from his dodge + magic resistance bonus + passive + innate resistances.
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Stark has a fever? BETTER GIVE HIM SOME TYLENOL
Yeah I can't emphasize farming any more.
A Jax with tons of items is a lot scarier than many champions with similar farm.
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My recent opinion is that he is just bad because basically:
1: Ranged carries barely get away with 1 or none defensive items by staying away from almost everyone
2: Melee DPS HAVE to be in range to DPS.
3: Because you'll always be a higher priority than the tank, you will always be a good focus target.
4: That means you have to build tanky enough to survive burst AND have decent burst yourself, so you can run away without actually having done nothing.
Jax is basically reliant on staying in melee range for a long time, after which he can beast mode. He is so good with a lot of farm simply because he has enough hp/resistances/dodge to survive while his lifesteal keeps him alive. I can't see him being good as a pure dps than many people build him.
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
On February 21 2011 00:50 Slayer91 wrote:
My recent opinion is that he is just bad because basically:
1: Ranged carries barely get away with 1 or none defensive items by staying away from almost everyone
2: Melee DPS HAVE to be in range to DPS.
3: Because you'll always be a higher priority than the tank, you will always be a good focus target.
4: That means you have to build tanky enough to survive burst AND have decent burst yourself, so you can run away without actually having done nothing.
Jax is basically reliant on staying in melee range for a long time, after which he can beast mode. He is so good with a lot of farm simply because he has enough hp/resistances/dodge to survive while his lifesteal keeps him alive. I can't see him being good as a pure dps than many people build him.
That is true for any melee DPS. What is even worse with Jax is that he is like super vulnerable to CC and doesn't have any reliable CC on his own. Jax, unless he gets great AS from items, doesn't even proc his R once during a standard 2-second stun/snare from an ally, that's the snowballing nature in combat. At the same time, even a weakest-ass CC with puny 1 second duration is enough to remove all your ult stacks, making you start to hit with your retarded base AS all over again. Other melee DPS are vulnerable to CC just because they are not doing damage in that time, but Jax is like completely screwed because ult stacks are hard to come by.
This is why I grossly dislike rageblade first on him. Yes, he gets an AS boost eventually, but he enters combat without any and you just have to hope that someone is retarded enough to tank like 5 hits from you at retardedly bad AS before you actually start doing some damage. All the while you keep eating burst damage from casters that doesn't even trigger your E. In a more realistic scenario they just run away from you laughing because you don't move a tad faster and have no way to stick to a target. You can get most of that from items, but:
- Damage/AP to, whoa, do damage.
- Mitigation to survive a veigar burst.
- Some kind of slow.
- Some kind of lifesteal.
- Attack speed.
Makes a rather expensive core, no?
Idk, something needs to be done about Jax, I'm certain about that. He's fun, but not nearly powerful because of how many things fuck him up. Maybe a 0.2 second stun on each R proc would do fine because he can at least consistenly interrupt with that and will have some chasing power.
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9871 Posts
I just build malady into tank items on him now.
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Recent sucess on EU server by scipeaus (who I kept telling to go AP or tank because burst melee or sustained tanky melee u can't have sustained squishy melee) is going solo lane (because your QW combo is really powerful) into fast rylai's with possibly hextech and then into like deathcap///gunblade//abyssal and you basically have super high hp and you just harass with your QW and teamfight isn't that bad when your third ulti hit does a lot of damage.
All my early theorycrafting in this thread is just bad because you shouldn't try to build sustained melee dps it just can't work. Ranged carries have trouble surviving as it is.AP also is more cost effective for HP from the passive.
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EPT
