EPT[Champion] Jax, the Armsmaster (long guide) - Page 6
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BluzMan
Russian Federation4235 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
Has anyone read this Dyrus jax guide? It's quite a depressing read. | ||
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BluzMan
Russian Federation4235 Posts
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bloodisblue
United States36 Posts
Jax's Strengths - High Attack Speed once maxed stacks Magic Resist Ult Aoe Stun Jump Spammable creep killing skill Fun!!! Weaknesses - Focused easily and often Without stacks does low damage Other things that I forget Skill build I use : Q W W E W R W Q W Q R Q Q E E R E E Empower allows you to farm up quickly without needing to really risk being harassed like crazy. Start of game : Renewal Pendant - (HP regen thing) + 1 hp pot Giant's belt if you can stay in lane long enough, if not boots and health stone (I forget this things name) Get the other parts of the last step when possible. Buy Warmog's. You can easily get this by 20 minutes with a decent duo farm. Complete Ninja Tabi Get Atma's Impaler starting with the chain mail. After this step you should be sitting at 3k hp with pretty nice attack damage while everyone else is at 1300 hp. After Core : Rageblade - This helps increase your dps and health greatly after gaining the stacks. Also helps push lanes. Frozen Mallet - I tried this and didn't like it too much, it costs too much for its narrow benefit. Infinities Edge - I would only aim for this if the game goes on for ~70 minutes and you can sell you boots to get it. Banshee's Vail - Very nice stats and the spell block is amazing against caster teams. I typically go this before Rageblade if the other team is caster heavy. I haven't tested many other late game items, but I'm assuming most will work pretty well once you get to this point in the game. Once you finish the build you should be at about 5000 hp and 65% ish resistance in both armor and MR. Barely enough to get your stacks and make use of them  Please comment on this build and please not that I am NOT a troll, this build is pretty effective every game I use it and you can off tank fairly well.TL;DR - Rush Warmog's to Atma's and trollolol as nobody can kill you why you gain stacks from your ult. | ||
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Morphx2
147 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On March 15 2011 03:44 Shikyo wrote: http://solomid.net/guides.php?g=162 Has anyone read this Dyrus jax guide? It's quite a depressing read. It's only a month old by now, and yet it has some weird quirks... It lists Empower as costing 60 mana, where its cost was reduced from 35 to 20 mana all the way back in October 2010. In the same vein, when talking about Empower he claims you won't have mana to support it... but he can support a 65 mana Leap Strike? He doesn't mention the Active component of Jax's ult when describing the ability. The damage from Counter Strike is off, listing the pre-v1.0.0.103 values. Beyond that... levelling Counter Strike over Empower seems really odd. In the comments, he says: "It's player preference, it really doesn't matter what skills you level up. Although you're right empower really should be the 2nd you level up because of the reduced cooldown it gives you. I'm just really old fashioned with the counter hit." Other than those details that caught my attention...? Yeah, it's a pretty depressing read :/ | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
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bloodisblue
United States36 Posts
On April 10 2011 11:20 Morphx2 wrote: if an enemy runs, how do you keep them there? How do you output dps? You are not making AP, so his leapstrike and empower will be pretty junky Well technically I'd say that this is an AD/HP build. Basically after you get Warmogs, Atma's and Banshees you'll be sitting at around 170 AD, about the same as any other champion. The difference is that 5 seconds into a fight you Attack speed goes through the roof making you a serious threat who has to be focused / stunned while being tanky enough to easily survive the beating. One thing I'm considering testing with this is Force of Nature. Though I'm assuming that the lack of HP or damage takes away from the point of this. Also if the enemy runs I let them run if I don't think I can get them, it is much easier to get a bit more farm or take out a tower when an enemy is running back to heal then when they are actively harassing / attacking. On April 10 2011 11:59 Juicyfruit wrote: Heh, probably should just stack as many heart of gold as you can in the first 15 minutes and then farm really hard 20 minutes after that while your passive gp/5 from HoG's kicks in. THEN maybe with good support you can actually carry your team to victory. I tried this build a couple games and while in theory it works very well in practice it fails. My idea of rushing Warmogs works pretty well because Jax has a powerful early game but quickly falls off mid game where his items have to help keep him viable. The gp/5 takes 25 minutes to pay off your initial investment or 14 with selling the item. Though the main reason they don't work as well as I hoped they would is the fact that until you obtain Atma's they have almost 0 benefit besides a slight bit more hp and the gp/5. Well I'm going to keep trying out this build a bit more and add additional comments as I think of new things / fail due to trial and error. But in my opinion it looks pretty promising for Jax (meaning he might be playable instead of just failing) | ||
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Flakes
United States3125 Posts
On April 10 2011 04:42 bloodisblue wrote: TL;DR - Rush Warmog's to Atma's and trollolol as nobody can kill you why you gain stacks from your ult. So I got in some Jax games on my smurf before servers went down, and since I'm willing to try anything once when it comes to Jax, tried out your build. The first thing you notice when you finish Warmog's (after ninja tabi, and I start cloth 5pots) is that suddenly burst-casters are not scary in the slightest. Leblanc, Kat, Akali... being able to live through any burst meant that I was usually able to deal comparable sustained damage in return, or at the very least live to keep farming. Empower is 20 mana, and in a close-quarters lane definitely worth maxing first (if you expect to leap a lot of course max leap strike first). The real problem, revealed in a bot game, was sustained magic damage, as in the ryze and nunu who took out large chunks of my health on short cooldowns. Even a negatron cloak after the Warmog's was not enough (though it was against human players), and I usually ended up making a FoN for the greater overall MR (FoN and Warmogs synergize nicely). I never did end up making atma's either game because the ever present threats were magic damage, and trying to deal enough damage yourself. I am definitely willing to try the full atmog's again on my main with MR blues and 0/21/9 (could try regen masteries with this build) to stay alive. Jax does a surprising amount of sustained damage with empower and leapstrike (and ideally the empower + ult proc combo), and with rushing warmog's first makes him feel like another tanky dps, only with less reliable CC. This, of course, is a huge improvement. Haven't tried substituting Frozen Mallet/Rylai's for Warmog's, both are more expensive and would delay the MR/atma's even further, and don't synergize as well with FoN/atma's due to providing much less flat hp. I was just focusing on staying alive and farming, but I can appreciate the utility of reliable slows. tl:dr there might be something to this tanky midgame into dps items, it just goes against the traditional "get lots of dps and then a survivability item." | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
But revolver and gunblade aren't really comparable to mogs for survivability. Gunblade costs 600 more than mogs and gives 330 HP, revolver gives 80 HP. The bonus HP is nice but hardly comparable even to an uncharged mogs, and the lifesteal/spell vamp can only make you live longer if you do 2950 damage over the course of the fight ((920 HP - 330 HP)/~0.2).. so no, you're not going to live longer. It's a different build with a different style and different goals. I don't know if it works but building survivability generally makes you live longer than building DPS no matter what your passive is. | ||
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Flakes
United States3125 Posts
In retrospect, I'm pretty sure going Warmog's blows unless you get the Atma's too  ...otherwise there's no point in having all of your HP in one item slot, you could just go 3x doran's + Rylai's and get more bang for your buck. | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
On April 12 2011 22:00 phyvo wrote: Every assist/kill also charges your mogs by 10%. As long as you're participating in fights and farming when you can mogs seems like a ok option. It could work. But revolver and gunblade aren't really comparable to mogs for survivability. Gunblade costs 600 more than mogs and gives 330 HP, revolver gives 80 HP. The bonus HP is nice but hardly comparable even to an uncharged mogs, and the lifesteal/spell vamp can only make you live longer if you do 2950 damage over the course of the fight ((920 HP - 330 HP)/~0.2).. so no, you're not going to live longer. It's a different build with a different style and different goals. I don't know if it works but building survivability generally makes you live longer than building DPS no matter what your passive is. Actually doing 2950 damage in a fight will be expected if Jax is to be worth his slot on the team. It's the amount of HP of approximately 1.5 champ so if he's the carry and not doing that much then you have a problem, lol. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23404 Posts
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
All I am saying is that as an hard carry, if you die before you deal 3000 damage probably means bad things for your team. Jax doens't have much of anything else besides dealing a lot of damage. So I'd say yes, in terms of EHP, gunblade gives a comparable amounts of damage to warmogs as long as you're not intending to be the first to faceplant yourself into battle. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
If Jax can live through the initial CC/burst, he can deal lots of damage. More than 3k. But he cannot deal those 3k while getting CC'd/bursted. Therefore Lifesteal/Spellvamp cannot simply replace HP/Armor/MRes. Oh and a competent team will not waste all their CC/burst in a 4v5 while a Jax is waiting to clean up. | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
Do you build warmogs on Nidalee? Herpderp warmog nid so I can faceplant as cougar into battle and not die to burst es best. Please don't start talking about competent teams on either side :S. Competent teams don't run jax without support targetted at him, and they certainly wouldn't run warmog jax over warmog mundo. Edit: When you play Jax in a teamfight, you should be avoiding jumping into battle until you have your ulti charged up. Hang back, avoid the cc and then wail on their tank from the farthest angle to get R + rageblade stacks and THEN you jump on their squishies. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23404 Posts
On April 13 2011 00:32 Juicyfruit wrote: If you go in with that presumption then you are a worthless champ through and through. You have to play with the intention of avoiding the damage spikes. All I am saying is that as an hard carry, if you die before you deal 3000 damage probably means bad things for your team. Jax doens't have much of anything else besides dealing a lot of damage. So I'd say yes, in terms of EHP, gunblade gives a comparable amounts of damage to warmogs as long as you're not intending to be the first to faceplant yourself into battle. No he's not. You guys just try way too hard to build him like a melee DPS. Scip on EU LP always builds jax AP or Tank+malady and it makes him not terrible. Viewing him as some kind of hard carry or something doesn't work, there is no such thing in LoL. You just burst em down. Toolkit of jax involves high base damage and a passive that gives hp if you build AP or AD. Just building pure damage on any melee doesn't work and never well. AP with rylais first and some tank stuff works pretty well. Tank/malady I've seen do ok but its harder to see the effectiveness of a tank with sustained damage than a burst caster with a lot of hp. (Sion like) | ||
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
Your case would be easier to swallow if you avoided comparisons that Jax of course can't win (again it's about what is best for his kit not how other champions are better) and didn't write your posts as if you were lecturing a naive kindergartner who just had to bury their hamster. Or something like that, I dunno what the most apt way to put it is... | ||
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