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Germany3367 Posts
After playing some games I still hate auto-inject.
My game-rhythm and flow are gone, I don't know what to do with my hands and I feel slower than normal, because injecting got my hand speed up in the early game. I practiced hard to get good at injecting and that has all been for nothing now... meh...
Also Queens are stopping to attack, because inject is their priority - could get quite annoying in tense situations.
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On August 21 2015 18:05 [PkF] Wire wrote:
I'll add that I'm very comfortable with removing injects because they added zero depth. In any circumstance, injecting is better than doing anything else. But the MULE/scan duality always felt interesting to me, and as a P player I know how chrono usage could be refined to the extreme. I wish they removed injects altogether (with boosted standard hatchery prod) but kept toned down versions of MULEs and chronos.
What about reducing the effect of injects while increasing the amount of larvae hatcherys spawn by themselves, so that inject is still in the game but there are situations where you actually have to make a decision and inject is not always the correct answer?
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On August 21 2015 18:05 [PkF] Wire wrote:
I'll add that I'm very comfortable with removing injects because they added zero depth. In any circumstance, injecting is better than doing anything else. But the MULE/scan duality always felt interesting to me, and as a P player I know how chrono usage could be refined to the extreme. I wish they removed injects altogether (with boosted standard hatchery prod) but kept toned down versions of MULEs and chronos.
Why isn't autoinject more interesting? It leaves the strategical depth around sniping queens and pulling queens for other tasks such as defense. It also is much easier to balance than just buffing hatcheries to a level where it competes with the 150mineral investment and build time (this is a huge component! Without the necessity to build queens you can rush a lair at and have mutas by 4mins!)
Additionally, nerfed inject means that it now has a bit of a a decision. I remember that back in 2011 and even in gasless ZvZ builds in 2013 I would sometimes use my first queen at the natural for a creep tumor. (something I eventually gave up on because 4drones is just better) With 2 larva injects (and mules/chrono gone) I can very well see such decisions making it a bit into the game.
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On August 21 2015 18:09 TheOneAboveU wrote:
After playing some games I still hate auto-inject.
My game-rhythm and flow are gone, I don't know what to do with my hands and I feel slower than normal, because injecting got my hand speed up in the early game. I practiced hard to get good at injecting and that has all been for nothing now... meh...
Also Queens are stopping to attack, because inject is their priority - could get quite annoying in tense situations.
Then turn off auto-inject.
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After playing some games on ladder with protoss I'm so sad that im about to cry, like srsly how the fuck can fuck the race so badly... this is insane... and the lower WG reserch is supposed to save us? or a 10 sec faster distruptor, that is even weaker now than before... I though i will have nice time playing with new distruptor and new changes but its unplayable thats how bad protoss is now... Playing protoss feels like playing football without legs i guees we have a nice looking ball....
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blizzard is trolling, not gonna play this game anymore
User was warned for this post
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On August 21 2015 18:06 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 17:58 Sapphire.lux wrote:On August 21 2015 17:44 Big J wrote:On August 21 2015 17:37 Sapphire.lux wrote:On August 21 2015 17:31 Big J wrote:On August 21 2015 17:26 Sapphire.lux wrote:On August 21 2015 17:18 Hag wrote:On August 21 2015 16:48 Ars0n_ wrote:
My problem with this patch is blizzards argument that macro mechanics are tedious and make the game unnessacarily harder than it has to be. But, from my experience mules and chrono boost makes the game easier with than without. With terran you could lose some scv from harrass and put down a mule and not fall so far behind now that is not the case. Protoss sees and attack coming and chronos the units they need. Now the only race that got easier is zerg who DID have to require alot of attention to inject. Removing all the macro mechanics and making zerg auto inject makes the other races even OR HARDER while making zerg ALOT easier. Now zerg can put 100% of their attention on an all in and micro every unit they want to while back at home they get a constant flow of injects. As mentioned several times, the problem with larva inject is that you can only use one per time on a base. so when a terran or protoss has to defend an all-in and returns to his macro, he can use several mules or chronos at once. A zerg can only do one inject, the rest of the queen energy is "wasted". I agree with this, as far as the macro mechs alone, Zerg had by far the most difficult time, but that was so because Terran and Protoss had a lot more base management to do on top of Chrono and Mules. Now Terran and Protoss still have base management, manage reactors, add extra production buildings of different types, etc, but Zerg has almost nothing to do, spread creep maybe. I don't know, playing Zerg feel extremely dumb now. Really? You think there was a reason behind this? Really? After all these years you still think that blizzard implemented injects exactly like they were with a specific reasoning? Really? 100% they just put in an ability and prevented it to be double-injected without any other considerations. Not sure what you're getting at as i'm still having my coffee, but yeah i think they introduced inject to bring some skill to Zerg macro, and now it's gone. I even remember Dustin or someone from Blizz saying they introduced macro mechs because multiple building selection made macro stupid easy. You responded to the specific characteristic of inject that you could not postpone them and double-use later with "but that was because". And I absolutly don't think that 2009-10 blizzard did that specifically for any purpose other than prevent two queens from injecting one hatchery. Given their reputation with implementing insane numbers (stim-marine dps, adept health, ultralisk armor) I'm 100% certain they had no clue that injects would make for 60% of zerg's production if done perfectly and around what monstrosity they would be balancing the game, i.e. what sort of gameplay this would induce. Also I don't think that injects were ever there to "balance out" anything as you put it. Otherwise the first thing they'd have removed in SC2 would have been Protoss self-constructing buildings, but that didn't happen either. Because blizzard never gave a shit about these kind of things, which is actually good because it doesn't matter. If the game is balanced it is equally hard. (unless of course it is balanced around randomness, then it's easier for the player who can just win by relying on randomness but also loses because of it) There is an interview with a Blizz person, probably Dustin, that said exactly what i wrote. The macro mech were put in place because multiple building selection made macro to easy. I think Inject was the real focus, and Mules and Chrono were added just to compensate; of course, also to speed up production and so the game. No that's not exactly what you wrote. What you gave as reasoning for the existance of inject was: Show nested quote +Zerg had by far the most difficult time, but that was so because Terran and Protoss had a lot more base management to do on top of Chrono and Mules. And no, it was not that blizzard put in inject to make zerg harder and then added the others to compensate. That's just your own bias. They added macro mechanics in general because of BW players whining that the macro in the game for all races would be too easy with MBS.
My own bias lol. Using Mules and Chrono is very easy even for nobs let alone pros. The only real mechanical difficulty was for Zerg, and that's because without it there is a very sharp discrepancy between P/T and Z macro.
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On August 21 2015 18:28 Sapphire.lux wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 18:06 Big J wrote:On August 21 2015 17:58 Sapphire.lux wrote:On August 21 2015 17:44 Big J wrote:On August 21 2015 17:37 Sapphire.lux wrote:On August 21 2015 17:31 Big J wrote:On August 21 2015 17:26 Sapphire.lux wrote:On August 21 2015 17:18 Hag wrote:On August 21 2015 16:48 Ars0n_ wrote:
My problem with this patch is blizzards argument that macro mechanics are tedious and make the game unnessacarily harder than it has to be. But, from my experience mules and chrono boost makes the game easier with than without. With terran you could lose some scv from harrass and put down a mule and not fall so far behind now that is not the case. Protoss sees and attack coming and chronos the units they need. Now the only race that got easier is zerg who DID have to require alot of attention to inject. Removing all the macro mechanics and making zerg auto inject makes the other races even OR HARDER while making zerg ALOT easier. Now zerg can put 100% of their attention on an all in and micro every unit they want to while back at home they get a constant flow of injects. As mentioned several times, the problem with larva inject is that you can only use one per time on a base. so when a terran or protoss has to defend an all-in and returns to his macro, he can use several mules or chronos at once. A zerg can only do one inject, the rest of the queen energy is "wasted". I agree with this, as far as the macro mechs alone, Zerg had by far the most difficult time, but that was so because Terran and Protoss had a lot more base management to do on top of Chrono and Mules. Now Terran and Protoss still have base management, manage reactors, add extra production buildings of different types, etc, but Zerg has almost nothing to do, spread creep maybe. I don't know, playing Zerg feel extremely dumb now. Really? You think there was a reason behind this? Really? After all these years you still think that blizzard implemented injects exactly like they were with a specific reasoning? Really? 100% they just put in an ability and prevented it to be double-injected without any other considerations. Not sure what you're getting at as i'm still having my coffee, but yeah i think they introduced inject to bring some skill to Zerg macro, and now it's gone. I even remember Dustin or someone from Blizz saying they introduced macro mechs because multiple building selection made macro stupid easy. You responded to the specific characteristic of inject that you could not postpone them and double-use later with "but that was because". And I absolutly don't think that 2009-10 blizzard did that specifically for any purpose other than prevent two queens from injecting one hatchery. Given their reputation with implementing insane numbers (stim-marine dps, adept health, ultralisk armor) I'm 100% certain they had no clue that injects would make for 60% of zerg's production if done perfectly and around what monstrosity they would be balancing the game, i.e. what sort of gameplay this would induce. Also I don't think that injects were ever there to "balance out" anything as you put it. Otherwise the first thing they'd have removed in SC2 would have been Protoss self-constructing buildings, but that didn't happen either. Because blizzard never gave a shit about these kind of things, which is actually good because it doesn't matter. If the game is balanced it is equally hard. (unless of course it is balanced around randomness, then it's easier for the player who can just win by relying on randomness but also loses because of it) There is an interview with a Blizz person, probably Dustin, that said exactly what i wrote. The macro mech were put in place because multiple building selection made macro to easy. I think Inject was the real focus, and Mules and Chrono were added just to compensate; of course, also to speed up production and so the game. No that's not exactly what you wrote. What you gave as reasoning for the existance of inject was: Zerg had by far the most difficult time, but that was so because Terran and Protoss had a lot more base management to do on top of Chrono and Mules. And no, it was not that blizzard put in inject to make zerg harder and then added the others to compensate. That's just your own bias. They added macro mechanics in general because of BW players whining that the macro in the game for all races would be too easy with MBS. My own bias lol. Using Mules and Chrono is very easy even for nobs let alone pros. The only real mechanical difficulty was for Zerg, and that's because without it there is a very sharp discrepancy between P/T and Z macro.
That's what I mean with "your own bias".
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Zerg feels stupid easy now, I am borderline ashamed of playing that race. lol this cant go through, can it?
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On August 21 2015 18:29 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 18:28 Sapphire.lux wrote:On August 21 2015 18:06 Big J wrote:On August 21 2015 17:58 Sapphire.lux wrote:On August 21 2015 17:44 Big J wrote:On August 21 2015 17:37 Sapphire.lux wrote:On August 21 2015 17:31 Big J wrote:On August 21 2015 17:26 Sapphire.lux wrote:On August 21 2015 17:18 Hag wrote:On August 21 2015 16:48 Ars0n_ wrote:
My problem with this patch is blizzards argument that macro mechanics are tedious and make the game unnessacarily harder than it has to be. But, from my experience mules and chrono boost makes the game easier with than without. With terran you could lose some scv from harrass and put down a mule and not fall so far behind now that is not the case. Protoss sees and attack coming and chronos the units they need. Now the only race that got easier is zerg who DID have to require alot of attention to inject. Removing all the macro mechanics and making zerg auto inject makes the other races even OR HARDER while making zerg ALOT easier. Now zerg can put 100% of their attention on an all in and micro every unit they want to while back at home they get a constant flow of injects. As mentioned several times, the problem with larva inject is that you can only use one per time on a base. so when a terran or protoss has to defend an all-in and returns to his macro, he can use several mules or chronos at once. A zerg can only do one inject, the rest of the queen energy is "wasted". I agree with this, as far as the macro mechs alone, Zerg had by far the most difficult time, but that was so because Terran and Protoss had a lot more base management to do on top of Chrono and Mules. Now Terran and Protoss still have base management, manage reactors, add extra production buildings of different types, etc, but Zerg has almost nothing to do, spread creep maybe. I don't know, playing Zerg feel extremely dumb now. Really? You think there was a reason behind this? Really? After all these years you still think that blizzard implemented injects exactly like they were with a specific reasoning? Really? 100% they just put in an ability and prevented it to be double-injected without any other considerations. Not sure what you're getting at as i'm still having my coffee, but yeah i think they introduced inject to bring some skill to Zerg macro, and now it's gone. I even remember Dustin or someone from Blizz saying they introduced macro mechs because multiple building selection made macro stupid easy. You responded to the specific characteristic of inject that you could not postpone them and double-use later with "but that was because". And I absolutly don't think that 2009-10 blizzard did that specifically for any purpose other than prevent two queens from injecting one hatchery. Given their reputation with implementing insane numbers (stim-marine dps, adept health, ultralisk armor) I'm 100% certain they had no clue that injects would make for 60% of zerg's production if done perfectly and around what monstrosity they would be balancing the game, i.e. what sort of gameplay this would induce. Also I don't think that injects were ever there to "balance out" anything as you put it. Otherwise the first thing they'd have removed in SC2 would have been Protoss self-constructing buildings, but that didn't happen either. Because blizzard never gave a shit about these kind of things, which is actually good because it doesn't matter. If the game is balanced it is equally hard. (unless of course it is balanced around randomness, then it's easier for the player who can just win by relying on randomness but also loses because of it) There is an interview with a Blizz person, probably Dustin, that said exactly what i wrote. The macro mech were put in place because multiple building selection made macro to easy. I think Inject was the real focus, and Mules and Chrono were added just to compensate; of course, also to speed up production and so the game. No that's not exactly what you wrote. What you gave as reasoning for the existance of inject was: Zerg had by far the most difficult time, but that was so because Terran and Protoss had a lot more base management to do on top of Chrono and Mules. And no, it was not that blizzard put in inject to make zerg harder and then added the others to compensate. That's just your own bias. They added macro mechanics in general because of BW players whining that the macro in the game for all races would be too easy with MBS. My own bias lol. Using Mules and Chrono is very easy even for nobs let alone pros. The only real mechanical difficulty was for Zerg, and that's because without it there is a very sharp discrepancy between P/T and Z macro. That's what I mean with "your own bias".
I don't know about why they added inject in the first place, but without it it is true that production of units/drones are extremely easy for zerg and without inject Zerg feels stupidly easy macro-wise.
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On August 21 2015 18:29 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 18:28 Sapphire.lux wrote:On August 21 2015 18:06 Big J wrote:On August 21 2015 17:58 Sapphire.lux wrote:On August 21 2015 17:44 Big J wrote:On August 21 2015 17:37 Sapphire.lux wrote:On August 21 2015 17:31 Big J wrote:On August 21 2015 17:26 Sapphire.lux wrote:On August 21 2015 17:18 Hag wrote:On August 21 2015 16:48 Ars0n_ wrote:
My problem with this patch is blizzards argument that macro mechanics are tedious and make the game unnessacarily harder than it has to be. But, from my experience mules and chrono boost makes the game easier with than without. With terran you could lose some scv from harrass and put down a mule and not fall so far behind now that is not the case. Protoss sees and attack coming and chronos the units they need. Now the only race that got easier is zerg who DID have to require alot of attention to inject. Removing all the macro mechanics and making zerg auto inject makes the other races even OR HARDER while making zerg ALOT easier. Now zerg can put 100% of their attention on an all in and micro every unit they want to while back at home they get a constant flow of injects. As mentioned several times, the problem with larva inject is that you can only use one per time on a base. so when a terran or protoss has to defend an all-in and returns to his macro, he can use several mules or chronos at once. A zerg can only do one inject, the rest of the queen energy is "wasted". I agree with this, as far as the macro mechs alone, Zerg had by far the most difficult time, but that was so because Terran and Protoss had a lot more base management to do on top of Chrono and Mules. Now Terran and Protoss still have base management, manage reactors, add extra production buildings of different types, etc, but Zerg has almost nothing to do, spread creep maybe. I don't know, playing Zerg feel extremely dumb now. Really? You think there was a reason behind this? Really? After all these years you still think that blizzard implemented injects exactly like they were with a specific reasoning? Really? 100% they just put in an ability and prevented it to be double-injected without any other considerations. Not sure what you're getting at as i'm still having my coffee, but yeah i think they introduced inject to bring some skill to Zerg macro, and now it's gone. I even remember Dustin or someone from Blizz saying they introduced macro mechs because multiple building selection made macro stupid easy. You responded to the specific characteristic of inject that you could not postpone them and double-use later with "but that was because". And I absolutly don't think that 2009-10 blizzard did that specifically for any purpose other than prevent two queens from injecting one hatchery. Given their reputation with implementing insane numbers (stim-marine dps, adept health, ultralisk armor) I'm 100% certain they had no clue that injects would make for 60% of zerg's production if done perfectly and around what monstrosity they would be balancing the game, i.e. what sort of gameplay this would induce. Also I don't think that injects were ever there to "balance out" anything as you put it. Otherwise the first thing they'd have removed in SC2 would have been Protoss self-constructing buildings, but that didn't happen either. Because blizzard never gave a shit about these kind of things, which is actually good because it doesn't matter. If the game is balanced it is equally hard. (unless of course it is balanced around randomness, then it's easier for the player who can just win by relying on randomness but also loses because of it) There is an interview with a Blizz person, probably Dustin, that said exactly what i wrote. The macro mech were put in place because multiple building selection made macro to easy. I think Inject was the real focus, and Mules and Chrono were added just to compensate; of course, also to speed up production and so the game. No that's not exactly what you wrote. What you gave as reasoning for the existance of inject was: Zerg had by far the most difficult time, but that was so because Terran and Protoss had a lot more base management to do on top of Chrono and Mules. And no, it was not that blizzard put in inject to make zerg harder and then added the others to compensate. That's just your own bias. They added macro mechanics in general because of BW players whining that the macro in the game for all races would be too easy with MBS. My own bias lol. Using Mules and Chrono is very easy even for nobs let alone pros. The only real mechanical difficulty was for Zerg, and that's because without it there is a very sharp discrepancy between P/T and Z macro. That's what I mean with "your own bias".
Funny how you highlight that but not the part where i said "Using Mules and Chrono is very easy even for nobs let alone pros." Bias much? lol
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Zerg macro definitely should feel easier but the main macro mechanics for zerg is creep spread, production with creep spread is just as easy as other race macro
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producing units at zerg is as afk as T and P now. Exactly this is supposed to be. I really hated to inject DURING a fight, otherwise P and T outmacroing Z easily at Lategame.
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On August 21 2015 18:35 Vanadiel wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 18:29 Big J wrote:On August 21 2015 18:28 Sapphire.lux wrote:On August 21 2015 18:06 Big J wrote:On August 21 2015 17:58 Sapphire.lux wrote:On August 21 2015 17:44 Big J wrote:On August 21 2015 17:37 Sapphire.lux wrote:On August 21 2015 17:31 Big J wrote:On August 21 2015 17:26 Sapphire.lux wrote:On August 21 2015 17:18 Hag wrote:
[quote]
As mentioned several times, the problem with larva inject is that you can only use one per time on a base. so when a terran or protoss has to defend an all-in and returns to his macro, he can use several mules or chronos at once. A zerg can only do one inject, the rest of the queen energy is "wasted". I agree with this, as far as the macro mechs alone, Zerg had by far the most difficult time, but that was so because Terran and Protoss had a lot more base management to do on top of Chrono and Mules. Now Terran and Protoss still have base management, manage reactors, add extra production buildings of different types, etc, but Zerg has almost nothing to do, spread creep maybe. I don't know, playing Zerg feel extremely dumb now. Really? You think there was a reason behind this? Really? After all these years you still think that blizzard implemented injects exactly like they were with a specific reasoning? Really? 100% they just put in an ability and prevented it to be double-injected without any other considerations. Not sure what you're getting at as i'm still having my coffee, but yeah i think they introduced inject to bring some skill to Zerg macro, and now it's gone. I even remember Dustin or someone from Blizz saying they introduced macro mechs because multiple building selection made macro stupid easy. You responded to the specific characteristic of inject that you could not postpone them and double-use later with "but that was because". And I absolutly don't think that 2009-10 blizzard did that specifically for any purpose other than prevent two queens from injecting one hatchery. Given their reputation with implementing insane numbers (stim-marine dps, adept health, ultralisk armor) I'm 100% certain they had no clue that injects would make for 60% of zerg's production if done perfectly and around what monstrosity they would be balancing the game, i.e. what sort of gameplay this would induce. Also I don't think that injects were ever there to "balance out" anything as you put it. Otherwise the first thing they'd have removed in SC2 would have been Protoss self-constructing buildings, but that didn't happen either. Because blizzard never gave a shit about these kind of things, which is actually good because it doesn't matter. If the game is balanced it is equally hard. (unless of course it is balanced around randomness, then it's easier for the player who can just win by relying on randomness but also loses because of it) There is an interview with a Blizz person, probably Dustin, that said exactly what i wrote. The macro mech were put in place because multiple building selection made macro to easy. I think Inject was the real focus, and Mules and Chrono were added just to compensate; of course, also to speed up production and so the game. No that's not exactly what you wrote. What you gave as reasoning for the existance of inject was: Zerg had by far the most difficult time, but that was so because Terran and Protoss had a lot more base management to do on top of Chrono and Mules. And no, it was not that blizzard put in inject to make zerg harder and then added the others to compensate. That's just your own bias. They added macro mechanics in general because of BW players whining that the macro in the game for all races would be too easy with MBS. My own bias lol. Using Mules and Chrono is very easy even for nobs let alone pros. The only real mechanical difficulty was for Zerg, and that's because without it there is a very sharp discrepancy between P/T and Z macro. That's what I mean with "your own bias". I don't know about why they added inject in the first place, but without it it is true that production of units/drones are extremely easy for zerg and without inject Zerg feels stupidly easy macro-wise.
And that's the whole point of the change. Let me be clear, I've played a lot of Terran in the past 3years and my main motive has always been because the race allowed me to focus much harder on controlling my units. (Protoss allows that too, but with Protoss being on the map has always been strategically iffy)
If blizzard brings this to zerg with this patch I couldn't be happier. Whose macro is easier or harder in the end I don't care, what I care about is HOW the macro part plays out. And I definitely think that being able to postpone your barracks explosion and mule dropping for nothing but an opportunity cost to focus a little longer on unit control is much more pleasant than "DO IT NOW OR LOSE OUT ON UNITS FOREVER"-injects.
On August 21 2015 18:39 Sapphire.lux wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 18:29 Big J wrote:On August 21 2015 18:28 Sapphire.lux wrote:On August 21 2015 18:06 Big J wrote:On August 21 2015 17:58 Sapphire.lux wrote:On August 21 2015 17:44 Big J wrote:On August 21 2015 17:37 Sapphire.lux wrote:On August 21 2015 17:31 Big J wrote:On August 21 2015 17:26 Sapphire.lux wrote:On August 21 2015 17:18 Hag wrote:
[quote]
As mentioned several times, the problem with larva inject is that you can only use one per time on a base. so when a terran or protoss has to defend an all-in and returns to his macro, he can use several mules or chronos at once. A zerg can only do one inject, the rest of the queen energy is "wasted". I agree with this, as far as the macro mechs alone, Zerg had by far the most difficult time, but that was so because Terran and Protoss had a lot more base management to do on top of Chrono and Mules. Now Terran and Protoss still have base management, manage reactors, add extra production buildings of different types, etc, but Zerg has almost nothing to do, spread creep maybe. I don't know, playing Zerg feel extremely dumb now. Really? You think there was a reason behind this? Really? After all these years you still think that blizzard implemented injects exactly like they were with a specific reasoning? Really? 100% they just put in an ability and prevented it to be double-injected without any other considerations. Not sure what you're getting at as i'm still having my coffee, but yeah i think they introduced inject to bring some skill to Zerg macro, and now it's gone. I even remember Dustin or someone from Blizz saying they introduced macro mechs because multiple building selection made macro stupid easy. You responded to the specific characteristic of inject that you could not postpone them and double-use later with "but that was because". And I absolutly don't think that 2009-10 blizzard did that specifically for any purpose other than prevent two queens from injecting one hatchery. Given their reputation with implementing insane numbers (stim-marine dps, adept health, ultralisk armor) I'm 100% certain they had no clue that injects would make for 60% of zerg's production if done perfectly and around what monstrosity they would be balancing the game, i.e. what sort of gameplay this would induce. Also I don't think that injects were ever there to "balance out" anything as you put it. Otherwise the first thing they'd have removed in SC2 would have been Protoss self-constructing buildings, but that didn't happen either. Because blizzard never gave a shit about these kind of things, which is actually good because it doesn't matter. If the game is balanced it is equally hard. (unless of course it is balanced around randomness, then it's easier for the player who can just win by relying on randomness but also loses because of it) There is an interview with a Blizz person, probably Dustin, that said exactly what i wrote. The macro mech were put in place because multiple building selection made macro to easy. I think Inject was the real focus, and Mules and Chrono were added just to compensate; of course, also to speed up production and so the game. No that's not exactly what you wrote. What you gave as reasoning for the existance of inject was: Zerg had by far the most difficult time, but that was so because Terran and Protoss had a lot more base management to do on top of Chrono and Mules. And no, it was not that blizzard put in inject to make zerg harder and then added the others to compensate. That's just your own bias. They added macro mechanics in general because of BW players whining that the macro in the game for all races would be too easy with MBS. My own bias lol. Using Mules and Chrono is very easy even for nobs let alone pros. The only real mechanical difficulty was for Zerg, and that's because without it there is a very sharp discrepancy between P/T and Z macro. That's what I mean with "your own bias". Funny how you highlight that but not the part where i said "Using Mules and Chrono is very easy even for nobs let alone pros." Bias much? lol
So your overall standpoint is that it's equally hard? Otherwise I don't see why you would even bring this up. If I missread I'm sorry, but to me it sounded like you wanted to say that zerg is now too easy.
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On August 21 2015 18:11 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 18:05 [PkF] Wire wrote:
I'll add that I'm very comfortable with removing injects because they added zero depth. In any circumstance, injecting is better than doing anything else. But the MULE/scan duality always felt interesting to me, and as a P player I know how chrono usage could be refined to the extreme. I wish they removed injects altogether (with boosted standard hatchery prod) but kept toned down versions of MULEs and chronos. Why isn't autoinject more interesting? It leaves the strategical depth around sniping queens and pulling queens for other tasks such as defense. It also is much easier to balance than just buffing hatcheries to a level where it competes with the 150mineral investment and build time (this is a huge component! Without the necessity to build queens you can rush a lair at and have mutas by 4mins!) Additionally, nerfed inject means that it now has a bit of a a decision. I remember that back in 2011 and even in gasless ZvZ builds in 2013 I would sometimes use my first queen at the natural for a creep tumor. (something I eventually gave up on because 4drones is just better) With 2 larva injects (and mules/chrono gone) I can very well see such decisions making it a bit into the game.
Because it's an automated task and it opens all sorts of doors I wanna leave closed. And with how Proleague still forbids automated worker rally at start of the game, do you really think they'll be comfortable with autoinjects ? This is a very dangerous idea.
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While people talk about macro changes the biggest change was Disruptor that is now OP as hell. 0% chance it stays like this.
From what I seen, Disruptors make Mech pointless
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On August 21 2015 18:47 -Archangel- wrote:
While people talk about macro changes the biggest change was Disruptor that is now OP as hell. 0% chance it stays like this.
From what I seen, Disruptors make Mech pointless
Far too early to tell. Disruptors still don't hit air, allowing you to pick siege tanks up. And you can focus it, hence killing the energy ball. I think it should be fine, modulo balance tweaks. Design is far better than the invulnerable bullshit.
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To be clear, i'm not saying inject was fun, not even slightly. But there needs to be some new macro mechanic added to Zerg to bring some sort of skill to this aspect of the race. Maybe make creep spread more difficult or add something new; not as tedious and punishing as inject. Or maybe it will be fine, but that's just my reaction now.
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On August 21 2015 18:47 -Archangel- wrote:
While people talk about macro changes the biggest change was Disruptor that is now OP as hell. 0% chance it stays like this.
From what I seen, Disruptors make Mech pointless
So distruptor was imposible to kill before now you can kill it and you tell me that it's op now? seems right!
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Hahahaha I played one game as Zerg, I'm not really good at Zerg but it's ridiculously easy now to have literally perfect creep spread and macro. If it stays like this we will all be either playing ZvZ or Zerg units would be nerfed into the ground to keep it balanced. Either way the skill cap is lowered to the ground. Happy now low level players?
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EPT
