EPTTLO's thoughts: The LotV ultralisk - Page 2
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SC2Towelie
United States561 Posts
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ilovegroov
357 Posts
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
On June 24 2015 09:08 ZergLingShepherd1 wrote: Its not BS, not all matches are like that. Ultralisk/Corrupters/Ling/Bling vs Liberator/Ghost/Marine/Medivac is a real thing, play more in the beta if you didnt got to see that or watch more tournaments. Also most openers are medivacs/tanks and zerg forced into 2 base muta, and some people are still going turtle mech and then change into mass cyclone/hellions/vikings cuz its very hard to deal with that in late game. holy shit, how can people feign knowledge to the degree this guy has in the past 2 days on TL? Like, don't u feel awkward sitting at your computer just typing random shit together pretending you know what you're talking about? wait.. a.. second... this isn't someone's second account trolling TL trying to be as idiotic as possible...? RIGHT? CHECK ALL THE IPS! GET BACK TO ME ASAP TEAM oh wait i thought this guy and dullblade were the same guy, holy shit that woulda been even more crazy LOL | ||
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Pontius Pirate
United States1557 Posts
On June 24 2015 09:00 Charoisaur wrote: That's not true. ultras often look bad in tvz because they are such a huge investment that most players who tech to them to early can't afford much support for them and alone they die to marauders. If a zerg manages to stabilize on hive and 3/3 with ultras and infestors + a big ling bane army it becomes extremely hard to win for terran. Buff ultras any more and zvt lategame will be a freewin. The reason why it becomes so difficult is because of the combined power of the splash and root effect of fungal growth, the huge economy powering the massive amount of Banelings which can be afforded to be tossed away far more liberally than in lower economy situations, and yes, the Ultralisks do serve a valuable role. It's not that Ultralisks are terrifying in as of themselves. But outside of the context of being able to lock bio in place with fungals, or threaten tech switches, the power of Ultralisks - outside of combined arms - in the lategame is pretty limited. Therefore, it seems that the main issue that should receive patching attention is making Ultralisks better outside of the context of having Infestors and a zillion Banelings available, yet not significantly better in said context. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
But I'm getting really bored of these "not rewarded for good play but punished for bad play" arguments. It's a 1v1 between 2 human players, those 2 things are one and the same. | ||
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Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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ETisME
12387 Posts
Ultras are beef and expensive and clumsy, smaller cheaper ultras just feel wrong. | ||
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Spect8rCraft
649 Posts
On June 24 2015 10:36 Barrin wrote: Maybe redo this analysis with proposed stats? 6/5 too good So what you're saying is that this is actually secretly a plea to buff nukes?  | ||
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On June 24 2015 10:24 ZenithM wrote:But I'm getting really bored of these "not rewarded for good play but punished for bad play" arguments. It's a 1v1 between 2 human players, those 2 things are one and the same. Sure, when you strip that sentence of all context like that, it sounds tautological. But that's why TLO explains, earlier in the very paragraph that sentence comes from, what he means by bad play: "There's not any smart decisions to be made, it's just getting a ghost in time or not. It's incredibly frustrating and anti-fun having to deal with an almost indestructible unit because you missed your window." It's up to us (well, Blizzard) to decide what is and is not a bad play in the context of SC2. Do you want "didn't get Ghosts in time" to be considered a bad play? Does that sound like an interesting enough challenge to pose to professional players, that is worth both the time they took to train their skills, and the time we took investing in the match leading up to a hard-counter bulldozing? Do you want a 20 minute long back-and-forth ZvT to be decided by a Zerg successfully hiding an Ultralisk Cavern in a corner of the map and winning because the Terran didn't get Ghosts and thus can do absolutely nothing, even if it's Maru playing against a Woodleague Zerg in the Ro128 qualifiers for Red Bull My Backyard? | ||
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BernabusStarcraft2
Scotland112 Posts
Mechanics always letting him down all these years though, shame. | ||
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The_Masked_Shrimp
425 Posts
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BeStFAN
483 Posts
On June 24 2015 09:57 -Kyo- wrote: holy shit, how can people feign knowledge to the degree this guy has in the past 2 days on TL? Like, don't u feel awkward sitting at your computer just typing random shit together pretending you know what you're talking about? wait.. a.. second... this isn't someone's second account trolling TL trying to be as idiotic as possible...? RIGHT? CHECK ALL THE IPS! GET BACK TO ME ASAP TEAM oh wait i thought this guy and dullblade were the same guy, holy shit that woulda been even more crazy LOL tlo post is honest assessment; this user and other zerg player who post about zerg will only offer their perception and complete resistance to anything that is not favor zerg. | ||
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BeStFAN
483 Posts
then there are user who only wish for their own benefit to their ego/experience. | ||
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XiaoJoyce-
China2908 Posts
SInce it is free, we get to see more nuke?  | ||
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paxconsciente
Belgium91 Posts
Zerg needs a unit against Terran that truly rewarded them getting past the hectic and Terran favored mid game, and the Ultralisk changes have potential to do that. But they also have potential to be too strong, and through standard Blizzard practices, be nerfed until it once again makes far more Zergs cry than Terrans. Looking forward to changes that are about to take place in this excellent game of ours. It can only get better | ||
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paxconsciente
Belgium91 Posts
On June 24 2015 11:34 BernabusStarcraft2 wrote: Always valued TLO's thoughts, hes a super smart player everyone knows it. Mechanics always letting him down all these years though, shame. True, mechanically he was just ever so slightly behind the very best, but let's not forget he spent at least one year playing random and terran before switching to full time zerg. One year or so of solid, daily practice was essentially missed out on, and he still managed to stay at the very very top. A shame he never won any real majors, at least not yet. | ||
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RenSC2
United States1057 Posts
Starcraft has used binary wins since the beginning: 1) Cloak vs no detection 2) Flying (+ shooting down) vs no anti-air. SC2 is particularly punishing for it where a proxy oracle, banshee, or DTs can be game ending or close to it at a very early stage. Admittedly, those losses tend to be rage inducing and anti-fun and not something I'd like to see more of in SC2. However, I don't put LotV Ultralisks in that same category for two reasons. 1) Yes, they are brutal to deal with in a pure MMM army. However, they can be dealt with through very good micro and proper usage of positioning. They're still probably going to be cost efficient, but they aren't impossible to deal with unlike flying or cloak against the wrong army. LotV ultralisks aren't a hard counter, nor a soft counter, they're somewhere in between. I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing in part due to my next point. 2) Rushing ultralisks is not exactly easy. You can't really rush out pool -> lair -> infestation pit -> hive -> ultralisk cavern unless your opponent is completely blind and passive. It's not the same as a banshee/oracle/DT that can hit reasonably early. In many cases, those are even proxied and if you don't have perfect vision everywhere, it can easily catch you off guard. Even if you can hide the cavern somewhere, you can't really hide the Hive. So your opponent should have a good idea that ultralisks could be coming soon when they see the hive and prepare accordingly. It's not the same as those early game proxy attacks. If you're a terran that's still on MMM and the zerg is pumping out ultralisks, that is a strategic deficit you have put yourself in. Should you be able to win every game purely with MMM just because you micro well? Shouldn't the strategy part of Real-Time Strategy mean something? I think you should be forced to add something into your composition to help. The logical addition would be ghosts, whose required building can be built immediately assuming you have a barracks. So, even if you get completely blindsided, you can micro with your MMM and get ghosts out ASAP and still salvage the situation. The Ghost Solution I like that the ghost is the solution to the ultralisk, but I'm not a huge fan of the drone solution. It's such a small niche ability and I'd rather see more multi-purpose abilities. It's also one more active ability to hit and I'd rather see something passive on the ghost. My suggestion, ditch that ability. Instead, give them armor breaking rounds. Each regular shot from a ghost gives the target a stacking -1 armor debuff that lasts for 15 seconds (armor can't go below 0). This way, the ghost is something you'd want to sprinkle into your army against almost any composition, especially with marine support. They may need to increase the reload time on the ghost for balance, but it'd be a useful unit in all matchups while being particularly powerful against the ultralisk. | ||
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Wildmoon
Thailand4189 Posts
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