EPTObserve a Friends game in progress - Page 2
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Liquid`Ret
Netherlands4514 Posts
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CCow
Germany335 Posts
But I think the aproaches are quite different. If you are restricted to the vision of the friend you are observing, it's great for tutoring. So the observed player would be the focus. If you are not restricted in that way, but have a few minutes of delay, it's great for the observers entertainment. So the observing player is the focus. I'm not 100% sure which one I prefer, probably the one restricting the vision, though. Since it would make teaching somebody how to play SC2 just so much easier. Atm you are pretty much forced to be right next to the person or bound to custom maps that allow for observers... | ||
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NekronautSC
1 Post
- If you want to coach you join the game as a coach from the beginning and the loading screen displays who is coaching. Vision is reduced to whatever the team you are coaching sees, no delay - If you only want to watch a game you join and can see everything. But there is a deleay - im not sure about it anymore but you can rewind and fast forward the game too (up to the point the game is played already) - tournaments can be viewed through the client - you can choose camera mode : free roam, obs, directed by the client itself etc. - several caster clients : community Caster(s), beginner channel and finally the official casters. Some Tournaments are free to watch through the client, and some need to be paid through steam so theres still some extra money to be earned. This is in addition to Twitch.tv. I think its quite crazy that the Dota 2 Client is so much more advanced even though the games are "only" 3 years apart. I would love if the Dota 2 features were in SC II and all of those features should be regarded as standard by the industry from now on. | ||
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Odowan Paleolithic
United States232 Posts
On June 12 2015 16:09 Excalibur_Z wrote: Drop-in spectating requires a new network model than the one that is currently in SC2. I've still suggested it, but we're talking a major fundamental overhaul. It's still worth it to do. People tend to forget how much more server load needed to run sc2 when everything now is p2p. There might be added benefit of map hack prevention if it doesn't require us to pay a subscription. More edit: If you desync in Dota or Hero or CSGO no problem the game keeps going you just saw the player avatar "blink". In SC2 you get a dialog "waiting for player", which is actually nicer compare to war3 where the game simply could crash. That's how most drop hacks made. Heck you can even drop hack by queuing up infinite, Human farms before it was fixed. The way it currently works is by tracking and sending game states to parties involved. Players send all inputs to each other and verify every cycle. Say each player has 2 units and make moves every second, each unit cost 1 network packet so you get 2 up 2 down. Now comes observer whose going to need the intel from both and it becomes 4 up 2 down. Each additional observer is going to cost the player additional upstream. Only the inputs get send which itself is small (replays are small as well). Of course you can make the first observer relay the intel but if that one is gone the game has to pause. Now sc2 is not like CSGO you just run 10 ray traces and 10 location verification. Or dota with 11 more interaction from spells, items and attacks from each hero, some more creep and towers. Starcraft has from 6 - 400 individual player units not counting the buildings and minerals. All those requires processing power and bandwidth. I doubt we will have a server just for ladder games in a client server sense. The local hardware is going to get cheaper. The network will take a while to update. | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3463 Posts
If there was a published bracket inside the client and you can just click on the game you want to watch and go observe. If it cannot be done, we do already have Archon Mode. So I think a feature where you simply join-in as a party and just observe the game, as if it was an Archon Mode, but you have no control, would be very possible. | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
Would be a really nice feature to add if they can implement it. | ||
AgamemnonSC2
Canada254 Posts
On June 12 2015 15:55 Rukis wrote: There is a big issue with this. Will you be observing the game in game? or in a different lobby? If it is in the same lobby issues arise, such as lag, connection errors. thus loss match someone. I think I had in mind being able to watch the game outside of the lobby. I don't think observers connection issues should be allowed to impact the game being played in any way. But, I'm no coder. | ||
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AgamemnonSC2
Canada254 Posts
On June 12 2015 19:55 ejozl wrote: Would be so good, especially combined with the automated tournament system. If there was a published bracket inside the client and you can just click on the game you want to watch and go observe. I wholeheartedly agree. I think your idea would solve the horrible wait times between your own scheduled matches. As much as I am looking forward to the Automated Tourneys, I was not looking forward to the downtime, or the people who would get bored of waiting and just leave. Being able to spectate would help to solve this. IMO | ||
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CursOr
United States6335 Posts
Even making a "watch random game" feature would be awesome, it would give people hope that someone is watching them play, thinking they are good. Rather than the alternative of 1) no one will ever know I played awesome, 2) the only person who will probably ever know about this game is my opponent who is calling me a faggot or 3) having to shove the replay down my friends throat who probably doesn't care at all. I think this actually has the potential to do a lot for the game, given even the possibility that someone could be watching your game could be another incentive to actually ladder. I imagine an interface feature too, that allows you to opt out of either friends, or random people, obsing your game. Great discussion. | ||
Fecalfeast
Canada11355 Posts
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Garemie
United States248 Posts
even if there was a list of random ranked games you could spectate. | ||
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paralleluniverse
4065 Posts
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Wildmoon
Thailand4189 Posts
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xtorn
4060 Posts
On June 12 2015 18:03 Liquid`Ret wrote: this would be an amazing feature >_> would be absolutely fantastic. i would watch skilled players ladder and learn from them. this would revolutionize coaching, would bring more players in the game, this is a feature request with SO MANY hidden benefits. lag problems? who cares, a multi billion dollar company can definitely find a solution. | ||
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AgamemnonSC2
Canada254 Posts
"The engine doesn't allow it. Which is why there's no spectator function in Heroes of the Storm aswell. Wether or not this is happening will depend a lot on wether or not they want to add it for Heroes of the Storm, I think. It'd help making Starcraft a lot more social experience, yeah. It'd be amazing. But I'm afraid this will never really happen. As far as I understand, the engine basicly works in a way that transfers user input to all clients. Which is why the game will lag for you, when it lags for the opponent. So when you want to join a game, that's already going on, you'd have to watch it from the start (because the input from all prior commands would be missing). At the same time, it'd cause the game to lag or get out of sync, once you have slight connection problems as a spectator. In order for that to work, there would have to be an additional server that tracks all user input for all players. But the problem here would also be: "If the spectator server lags, your game will too". When connecting to this server as a spectator, it has to send you the exact state of the game in the moment you join the game.. Causing a lot of traffic (when a lot of people watch you), making it very likely for your game (as a player) to lag. You can see the problem of recreating a gamestate, when looking at recreating a game from replay." Now I'm worried we will never have this feature  | ||
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ElMeanYo
United States1032 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On June 15 2015 03:54 ElMeanYo wrote: ^ I guess the technology isn't there yet. Yeah, it is just almost 20 years old idea... | ||
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
On June 15 2015 04:19 deacon.frost wrote: Yeah, it is just almost 20 years old idea... I think it should be pretty doable. A damn 5v5 game with minions without much problems allows it and not SC2? How the fuck did they code their client? I think that a solution would be quite easy, since the replay file is being created while the game is on. So, theoretically, I think you could spectate the replay file with a 2 minute delay instead of the game going on, without much trouble. Instead of joining the match, join the broadcast. The game engine loops and sends info several times per second, how the hell isn't it going to be able to transmit a replay file? It could work with some infrastructure behind it, for sure. | ||
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Odowan Paleolithic
United States232 Posts
On June 15 2015 04:51 JCoto wrote: I think it should be pretty doable. A damn 5v5 game with minions without much problems allows it and not SC2? How the fuck did they code their client? I think that a solution would be quite easy, since the replay file is being created while the game is on. So, theoretically, I think you could spectate the replay file with a 2 minute delay instead of the game going on, without much trouble. Instead of joining the match, join the broadcast. The game engine loops and sends info several times per second, how the hell isn't it going to be able to transmit a replay file? It could work with some infrastructure behind it, for sure. Because there is only 10 heros + minions, and the server give 0 fuck when someone lags. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/117158-some-notes-regarding-sc2-networking | ||
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