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On May 23 2015 07:51 hitpoint wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2015 07:01 pure.Wasted wrote:On May 23 2015 06:19 hitpoint wrote:Terran is already a complete race imo, there's nothing more to add. TvZ Bio still has absolutely nothing to tech into past tier 2 Medivacs, 5 years after the game's release. "Complete race." And it's the best/most entertaining matchup. I don't see the problem. In any case, if the definition of "complete" means having more things to tech to. I think that can be fixed by tweaking existing units that don't see use in TvZ, like Ghosts or BCs. Additional units like this feel cheap, like the only place they have in the game is to sell the expansion. Adding pointless units just so the expansion can have two new units per race is harmful to the game. The swarm host felt the same way, and the tempest definitely felt the same way. The latter unit is universally hated and generally accepted as a poorly designed unit, while the former almost killed SC2 and is at the very least responsible for a significant decline in viewership/players/interest.
Don't forget the Widow Mine. It isn't a well designed unit either.
And while TvZ is the flagship matchup for SC2, it certainly was better in WOL circa 2011, certainly better. Ling/Bling/Muta vs Marine/Tank/Medivac was infinitely more exciting than Ling/Bling/Muta versus 4M. And Ghosts used to be part of TvZ in 2011. And not just for EMP on Infestors.
I miss the old days.
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On May 23 2015 13:08 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2015 07:51 hitpoint wrote:On May 23 2015 07:01 pure.Wasted wrote:On May 23 2015 06:19 hitpoint wrote:Terran is already a complete race imo, there's nothing more to add. TvZ Bio still has absolutely nothing to tech into past tier 2 Medivacs, 5 years after the game's release. "Complete race." And it's the best/most entertaining matchup. I don't see the problem. In any case, if the definition of "complete" means having more things to tech to. I think that can be fixed by tweaking existing units that don't see use in TvZ, like Ghosts or BCs. Additional units like this feel cheap, like the only place they have in the game is to sell the expansion. Adding pointless units just so the expansion can have two new units per race is harmful to the game. The swarm host felt the same way, and the tempest definitely felt the same way. The latter unit is universally hated and generally accepted as a poorly designed unit, while the former almost killed SC2 and is at the very least responsible for a significant decline in viewership/players/interest. Don't forget the Widow Mine. It isn't a well designed unit either. And while TvZ is the flagship matchup for SC2, it certainly was better in WOL circa 2011, certainly better. Ling/Bling/Muta vs Marine/Tank/Medivac was infinitely more exciting than Ling/Bling/Muta versus 4M. And Ghosts used to be part of TvZ in 2011. And not just for EMP on Infestors. I miss the old days.
And terrans actually transitioned into viking/raven, while zergs transitioned to ultras/broodlords/infestor, the only problem was that broodlord/infestor was too powerful, but it was an amazing MU.
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On May 23 2015 13:06 Lexender wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2015 12:54 FaiFai wrote:On May 23 2015 12:48 Lexender wrote:On May 23 2015 12:34 FaiFai wrote:On May 23 2015 09:02 Lexender wrote:On May 23 2015 08:48 whetherbye wrote:
Is it just me, or do other's also get the feeling that Blizzard favors Terran? I'm not sure why I get that feeling, even though the turret and split upgrades is a nerf. Maybe the wide array of units? Although that just means more micro perhaps.
Also, these polls about changes are always mostly positive. I can't remember a time when the disapproval was greater than the approval for a change. Although this time, there was less approval than usual. All races have almost the same number of units, I thing is a "The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence" thing, everybody thinks the other races are favored and their own race is the disliked. Could be true, but even farther of the perception, there is a fact that in the last months was: -Buff hellbat/hellion transformation without upgrade. -Buff Widow mine. -Buff Thors. -Nerf swarm host. Well this proves my point, yes all these changes to terran well other races got nothing right? picking only the points that serve you, you are just seeing the these things and not all the changes "terran is so strong because of this,all the other changes don't matter" Exactly my point. Plus the fact that balance is good, maybe a bit fucked for zerg but thats both against terran and protoss. Then you can enum what other changes favor protoss and zerg in the last months, and can be considered buffs or nerfs, for their big impact on the gameplay. PD: Im not saying that zerg or protoss are unfavored and are a conspiration to make terrans invincible or somehitng like taht, i just show facts, nothing more nothing less. Viper buff, Raven nerf. Actually there haven't been many changes, I'm amazed by that, but there you go, blizz loves terran then, now you can play ladder and blame your loses on that, or not play because terran. You say you are not talking about that just after, you talk about that, I guess I just don't understand your point, so I clarify, what its your point? or you don't have one. I don't even know with this community, I just don't get it anymore.
I told enum changes that could be considered buff/nerfs for their big impact on the gameplay, not the case on what u told.
-Viper buff: Is almost the same situation, thats bcoz zergs still not finding a good solution against mech, and just crushing over and over a ridiculous amount of min and gas, lossing a lot of vipers in the process, and u can see it a lot in the zvmech at proscene.
-Raven nerf: Is almost the same situation to, bcoz the pdd duration is the duration of the engage, and doesnt affect much at terran engages, and any terran could be agree on that i guess.
And i didnt say in any of my posts something like "blizz loves terran then, now you can play ladder and blame your loses on that, or not play because terran.", lol, it looks like u r at so defensive position.
PD: I´m not defending protoss,zerg or terrans, i just played races per season from which i think is op in the time, now im playing terran, for me is the same if blizz buff more the terran, or nerf heavily and buff other races.
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On May 23 2015 13:16 FaiFai wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2015 13:06 Lexender wrote:On May 23 2015 12:54 FaiFai wrote:On May 23 2015 12:48 Lexender wrote:On May 23 2015 12:34 FaiFai wrote:On May 23 2015 09:02 Lexender wrote:On May 23 2015 08:48 whetherbye wrote:
Is it just me, or do other's also get the feeling that Blizzard favors Terran? I'm not sure why I get that feeling, even though the turret and split upgrades is a nerf. Maybe the wide array of units? Although that just means more micro perhaps.
Also, these polls about changes are always mostly positive. I can't remember a time when the disapproval was greater than the approval for a change. Although this time, there was less approval than usual. All races have almost the same number of units, I thing is a "The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence" thing, everybody thinks the other races are favored and their own race is the disliked. Could be true, but even farther of the perception, there is a fact that in the last months was: -Buff hellbat/hellion transformation without upgrade. -Buff Widow mine. -Buff Thors. -Nerf swarm host. Well this proves my point, yes all these changes to terran well other races got nothing right? picking only the points that serve you, you are just seeing the these things and not all the changes "terran is so strong because of this,all the other changes don't matter" Exactly my point. Plus the fact that balance is good, maybe a bit fucked for zerg but thats both against terran and protoss. Then you can enum what other changes favor protoss and zerg in the last months, and can be considered buffs or nerfs, for their big impact on the gameplay. PD: Im not saying that zerg or protoss are unfavored and are a conspiration to make terrans invincible or somehitng like taht, i just show facts, nothing more nothing less. Viper buff, Raven nerf. Actually there haven't been many changes, I'm amazed by that, but there you go, blizz loves terran then, now you can play ladder and blame your loses on that, or not play because terran. You say you are not talking about that just after, you talk about that, I guess I just don't understand your point, so I clarify, what its your point? or you don't have one. I don't even know with this community, I just don't get it anymore. I told enum changes that could be considered buff/nerfs for their big impact on the gameplay, not tha case on what u told. -Viper buff: Is almost the same situation, thats bcoz zergs still not finding a good solution against mech, and just crushing over and over a ridiculous amount of min and gas, lossing a lot of vipers in the process, and u can see it a lot in the zvmech at proscene. -Raven nerf: Is almost the same to, bcoz the pdd duration is the duration of the engage, and any terran could be agree on that i guess. And i didnt say in any of my posts something like "blizz loves terran then, now you can play ladder and blame your loses on that, or not play because terran.", lol, it looks like u r at so defensive position.
You are just being passive agressive, you are just giving the "u mad bro" argument.
Did I came as agressive? I'm sorry not my intention. Of course I'm not saying you said that. So I ask you again.
What IS your point? because you DO have one, you have an opinion because other wise you wouldn't pick changes as being of "big impact" and "no impact" if you didn't. So tell me your point so I can discuss it with you, not because I want to prove you wrong but because thats how meaningful solutions get made, I'm ready to accept my opinion is wrong if you are willing to discuss it with me, other wise just PM so we can stop derailing this post because this post is about discussing LotV balance, not what you, me or anybody else things is blizzard agenda.
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Newest patch just hit beta partially (the push isn't completed).
I'll post a pic of the Liberator in a second along with stats.
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United Kingdom20332 Posts
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On May 23 2015 13:40 dcemuser wrote:
Newest patch just hit beta partially (the push isn't completed).
I'll post a pic of the Liberator in a second along with stats.
Where did you see this? I want to see it too
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On May 23 2015 13:38 Lexender wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2015 13:16 FaiFai wrote:On May 23 2015 13:06 Lexender wrote:On May 23 2015 12:54 FaiFai wrote:On May 23 2015 12:48 Lexender wrote:On May 23 2015 12:34 FaiFai wrote:On May 23 2015 09:02 Lexender wrote:On May 23 2015 08:48 whetherbye wrote:
Is it just me, or do other's also get the feeling that Blizzard favors Terran? I'm not sure why I get that feeling, even though the turret and split upgrades is a nerf. Maybe the wide array of units? Although that just means more micro perhaps.
Also, these polls about changes are always mostly positive. I can't remember a time when the disapproval was greater than the approval for a change. Although this time, there was less approval than usual. All races have almost the same number of units, I thing is a "The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence" thing, everybody thinks the other races are favored and their own race is the disliked. Could be true, but even farther of the perception, there is a fact that in the last months was: -Buff hellbat/hellion transformation without upgrade. -Buff Widow mine. -Buff Thors. -Nerf swarm host. Well this proves my point, yes all these changes to terran well other races got nothing right? picking only the points that serve you, you are just seeing the these things and not all the changes "terran is so strong because of this,all the other changes don't matter" Exactly my point. Plus the fact that balance is good, maybe a bit fucked for zerg but thats both against terran and protoss. Then you can enum what other changes favor protoss and zerg in the last months, and can be considered buffs or nerfs, for their big impact on the gameplay. PD: Im not saying that zerg or protoss are unfavored and are a conspiration to make terrans invincible or somehitng like taht, i just show facts, nothing more nothing less. Viper buff, Raven nerf. Actually there haven't been many changes, I'm amazed by that, but there you go, blizz loves terran then, now you can play ladder and blame your loses on that, or not play because terran. You say you are not talking about that just after, you talk about that, I guess I just don't understand your point, so I clarify, what its your point? or you don't have one. I don't even know with this community, I just don't get it anymore. I told enum changes that could be considered buff/nerfs for their big impact on the gameplay, not tha case on what u told. -Viper buff: Is almost the same situation, thats bcoz zergs still not finding a good solution against mech, and just crushing over and over a ridiculous amount of min and gas, lossing a lot of vipers in the process, and u can see it a lot in the zvmech at proscene. -Raven nerf: Is almost the same to, bcoz the pdd duration is the duration of the engage, and any terran could be agree on that i guess. And i didnt say in any of my posts something like "blizz loves terran then, now you can play ladder and blame your loses on that, or not play because terran.", lol, it looks like u r at so defensive position. You are just being passive agressive, you are just giving the "u mad bro" argument. Did I came as agressive? I'm sorry not my intention. Of course I'm not saying you said that. So I ask you again. What IS your point? because you DO have one, you have an opinion because other wise you wouldn't pick changes as being of "big impact" and "no impact" if you didn't. So tell me your point so I can discuss it with you, not because I want to prove you wrong but because thats how meaningful solutions get made, I'm ready to accept my opinion is wrong if you are willing to discuss it with me, other wise just PM so we can stop derailing this post because this post is about discussing LotV balance, not what you, me or anybody else things is blizzard agenda.
Saddly u cant discuss with me bcoz I´m not defending protoss,zerg or terran, i just played races per season from which i think is op in the time, now im playing terran, for me is the same if blizz buff more the terran, or nerf heavily and buff other races, like u saw in the post where i just said cold comments. And about LotV my opinion is that their development is so cautious, doing minor changes and adds, just for no hurt sensitiviness of certain people, and not my intention to offense but, of people like you. My hope is that the game dramatically change.
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<CEffectDamage id="LiberatorMissileDamage" parent="DU_WEAP_MISSILE"> <EditorCategories value="Race:Terran"/> <LaunchLocation Value="SourceUnitOrPoint"/> <Visibility value="Visible"/> <Amount value="7"/> <Death value="Fire"/> <AreaArray Radius="1.5" Fraction="1"/> <ExcludeArray Value="Target"/> <SearchFilters value="Air;Player,Ally,Missile,Stasis,Dead,Hidden,Invulnerable"/> </CEffectDamage> <CEffectDamage id="LiberatorAGDamage" parent="DU_WEAP"> <EditorCategories value="Race:Terran"/> <ImpactLocation Value="TargetUnit"/> <Kind value="Ranged"/> <Amount value="85"/> <Death value="Fire"/> <!--AttributeBonus index="Light" value="15"/--> </CEffectDamage>
Raw data for Liberator weapon damage.
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On May 23 2015 13:56 FaiFai wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2015 13:38 Lexender wrote:On May 23 2015 13:16 FaiFai wrote:On May 23 2015 13:06 Lexender wrote:On May 23 2015 12:54 FaiFai wrote:On May 23 2015 12:48 Lexender wrote:On May 23 2015 12:34 FaiFai wrote:On May 23 2015 09:02 Lexender wrote:On May 23 2015 08:48 whetherbye wrote:
Is it just me, or do other's also get the feeling that Blizzard favors Terran? I'm not sure why I get that feeling, even though the turret and split upgrades is a nerf. Maybe the wide array of units? Although that just means more micro perhaps.
Also, these polls about changes are always mostly positive. I can't remember a time when the disapproval was greater than the approval for a change. Although this time, there was less approval than usual. All races have almost the same number of units, I thing is a "The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence" thing, everybody thinks the other races are favored and their own race is the disliked. Could be true, but even farther of the perception, there is a fact that in the last months was: -Buff hellbat/hellion transformation without upgrade. -Buff Widow mine. -Buff Thors. -Nerf swarm host. Well this proves my point, yes all these changes to terran well other races got nothing right? picking only the points that serve you, you are just seeing the these things and not all the changes "terran is so strong because of this,all the other changes don't matter" Exactly my point. Plus the fact that balance is good, maybe a bit fucked for zerg but thats both against terran and protoss. Then you can enum what other changes favor protoss and zerg in the last months, and can be considered buffs or nerfs, for their big impact on the gameplay. PD: Im not saying that zerg or protoss are unfavored and are a conspiration to make terrans invincible or somehitng like taht, i just show facts, nothing more nothing less. Viper buff, Raven nerf. Actually there haven't been many changes, I'm amazed by that, but there you go, blizz loves terran then, now you can play ladder and blame your loses on that, or not play because terran. You say you are not talking about that just after, you talk about that, I guess I just don't understand your point, so I clarify, what its your point? or you don't have one. I don't even know with this community, I just don't get it anymore. I told enum changes that could be considered buff/nerfs for their big impact on the gameplay, not tha case on what u told. -Viper buff: Is almost the same situation, thats bcoz zergs still not finding a good solution against mech, and just crushing over and over a ridiculous amount of min and gas, lossing a lot of vipers in the process, and u can see it a lot in the zvmech at proscene. -Raven nerf: Is almost the same to, bcoz the pdd duration is the duration of the engage, and any terran could be agree on that i guess. And i didnt say in any of my posts something like "blizz loves terran then, now you can play ladder and blame your loses on that, or not play because terran.", lol, it looks like u r at so defensive position. You are just being passive agressive, you are just giving the "u mad bro" argument. Did I came as agressive? I'm sorry not my intention. Of course I'm not saying you said that. So I ask you again. What IS your point? because you DO have one, you have an opinion because other wise you wouldn't pick changes as being of "big impact" and "no impact" if you didn't. So tell me your point so I can discuss it with you, not because I want to prove you wrong but because thats how meaningful solutions get made, I'm ready to accept my opinion is wrong if you are willing to discuss it with me, other wise just PM so we can stop derailing this post because this post is about discussing LotV balance, not what you, me or anybody else things is blizzard agenda. Saddly u cant discuss with me bcoz I´m not defending protoss,zerg or terrans, i just played races per season from which i think is op in the time, now im playing terran, for me is the same if blizz buff more the terran, or nerf heavily and buff other races, like u saw in the post where i just said cold comments. And about LotV my opinion is that their development is so cautious, doing minor changes and adds, just for no hurt sensitiviness of people, and no my intention to offense but, of people like you. My hope is that the game dramatically change.
So thats your opinion of my, I wanted to discuss because thats how big changes get made, a lot of people are so caught in this "blizz loves terran and hates the other races" so they are against changes because of that. And I DO want big changes.
But I won't try to change my image of you we derailed this post enough PM if you want to keep talking.
Also saying no ofense before an offensive sentence doesn't work, I didn't get offended tho I just wanted to keep it clear.
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Liberator is:
Armored
Mechanical
180 Life
Sight 10
Speed 3.375
150 minerals/150 gas
2 Supply
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On May 23 2015 13:59 dcemuser wrote:Show nested quote + <CEffectDamage id="LiberatorMissileDamage" parent="DU_WEAP_MISSILE"> <EditorCategories value="Race:Terran"/> <LaunchLocation Value="SourceUnitOrPoint"/> <Visibility value="Visible"/> <Amount value="7"/> <Death value="Fire"/> <AreaArray Radius="1.5" Fraction="1"/> <ExcludeArray Value="Target"/> <SearchFilters value="Air;Player,Ally,Missile,Stasis,Dead,Hidden,Invulnerable"/> </CEffectDamage> <CEffectDamage id="LiberatorAGDamage" parent="DU_WEAP"> <EditorCategories value="Race:Terran"/> <ImpactLocation Value="TargetUnit"/> <Kind value="Ranged"/> <Amount value="85"/> <Death value="Fire"/> <!--AttributeBonus index="Light" value="15"/--> </CEffectDamage> Raw data for Liberator weapon damage.
hmm..so I take it the first block is the AA attack with a 1.5 radius, 7 damage and...I think 1 cooldown (I'm assuming that's what "Fraction = 1" means). So 7 dps area attack...seems reasonable.
Second block is the single target ground attack. Which apparently deals 85 + 15 to light?
Seems a tad beefy and fast for only 2 supply though. 3.375 is stim bio/warp prism speed >_>
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United Kingdom20332 Posts
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On May 23 2015 14:09 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2015 13:59 dcemuser wrote: <CEffectDamage id="LiberatorMissileDamage" parent="DU_WEAP_MISSILE"> <EditorCategories value="Race:Terran"/> <LaunchLocation Value="SourceUnitOrPoint"/> <Visibility value="Visible"/> <Amount value="7"/> <Death value="Fire"/> <AreaArray Radius="1.5" Fraction="1"/> <ExcludeArray Value="Target"/> <SearchFilters value="Air;Player,Ally,Missile,Stasis,Dead,Hidden,Invulnerable"/> </CEffectDamage> <CEffectDamage id="LiberatorAGDamage" parent="DU_WEAP"> <EditorCategories value="Race:Terran"/> <ImpactLocation Value="TargetUnit"/> <Kind value="Ranged"/> <Amount value="85"/> <Death value="Fire"/> <!--AttributeBonus index="Light" value="15"/--> </CEffectDamage> Raw data for Liberator weapon damage. hmm..so I take it the first block is the AA attack with a 1.5 radius, 7 damage and...I think 1 cooldown (I'm assuming that's what "Fraction = 1" means). So 7 dps area attack...seems reasonable. Second block is the single target ground attack. Which apparently deals 85 + 15 to light?
15 to light line is commented out ('!--'), so it is probably something they're considering but isn't implemented.
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On May 23 2015 14:09 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
hmm..so I take it the first block is the AA attack with a 1.5 radius, 7 damage and...I think 1 cooldown (I'm assuming that's what "Fraction = 1" means). So 7 dps area attack...seems reasonable.
<AreaArray Radius="1.5" Fraction="1"/>
Fraction isn`t attack speed, it`s part of damage that going to area. For example <AreaArray Radius="1.5" Fraction="0,5"/> means that main target get 7 damage and units in 1,5 area get 3,5 damage.
Attack speed is located in "weapon" data section. We are now talking about effect.
Also we need to take into account that it can has several missiles launched at once. That data also located in "weapon" section.
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United Kingdom20332 Posts
On May 23 2015 14:21 Dmitry1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2015 14:09 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
hmm..so I take it the first block is the AA attack with a 1.5 radius, 7 damage and...I think 1 cooldown (I'm assuming that's what "Fraction = 1" means). So 7 dps area attack...seems reasonable.
<AreaArray Radius="1.5" Fraction="1"/> Fraction isn`t attack speed, it`s part of damage that going to area. For example <AreaArray Radius="1.5" Fraction="0,5"/> means that main target get 7 damage and units in 1,5 area get 3,5 damage. Attack speed is located in "weapon" data section. We are now talking about effect. Also we need to take into account that it can has several missiles launched at once. That data also located in "weapon" section.
Multi-shots with AOE is a sure way to bring huge performance hits 
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On May 23 2015 14:49 dcemuser wrote:Yeah, it fires 2 sets of those missiles. In-game pic: http://i.imgur.com/nQBM2qk.jpgI'll post an album in a second.
Ouch. Seems it needs research to shoot ground... bored =(
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EPT
