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On May 23 2015 00:23 TheDwf wrote:When they bulldozed the interface without carefully thinking about it, I rejoiced or said nothing. It was just a bunch of buttons, there was nothing to save there. The fun and strategy came from elsewhere. When they bulldozed the complexity of macro, I rejoiced or said nothing. It was just a bunch of buttons, there was nothing to save there. The fun and strategy came from elsewhere. When they bulldozed the early game, I rejoiced or said nothing. It was just a bunch of buttons, there was nothing to save there. The fun and strategy came from elsewhere. When they bulldozed the technology tree, I rejoiced or said nothing. It was just a bunch of buttons, there was nothing to save there. The fun and strategy came from elsewhere. (…) Now I am left with chronic discontent and an arid game, I fail to see that history falters, I still don't want to listen to anything sensible and I prefer to blame my fellow gamers based on their race or style. Who am I? + Show Spoiler +In short, the SC2 crew was plagued with a common disease of the ill-named “modernity”: they thought backwards.
(…)
Plagued with the second common disease of “modernity,” short-sightedness, Mr. Viewer does not see that his short-term demands may spectacularly backfire in the future (see part I), fueling an “always more” drug-like logic, piling up artificial entertainment upon forced excitement in a rabid succession of blurry, shiny images. What will Mr. Viewer then do, once he's tired of the spectacle? He will say, “This game is shit” and sail away.
(…)
A third trait of “modernity” is that power in a given field tends to become increasingly intrusive because of hyper-rationalization.
(…)
Short-sighted users shall be jealous of “the shiny tools others get” and will ask Blizzard the same for “their camp,” failing to realize that they're completely falling into the oldest trap on Earth called “divide and rule”. People should instead unite and camp Blizzard's door so they have a playable RTS first. Otherwise, they will only get (1) an even worse game, (2) an even worse competitive scene, (3) an even worse balance. The “Liberator” sure has a prophetic name. How not to glimpse the very hand of fate in this saving unit? Hopefully it lives up to its name and frees us from the ignorance running rampant for years. Or no. Chains are better. Blaming Terran players and Zerg adepts and Protoss cheesers and X or Y is so much more fun. Clinging to irrelevant opinions for derisory gains is a brilliant strategy, the natural fruit of the superior minds forming the assembly of Starcraft experts. Sleeping is such a bliss.
I am not liking your recent poetry fad.
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On May 23 2015 00:23 TheDwf wrote:When they bulldozed the interface without carefully thinking about it, I rejoiced or said nothing. It was just a bunch of buttons, there was nothing to save there. The fun and strategy came from elsewhere. When they bulldozed the complexity of macro, I rejoiced or said nothing. It was just a bunch of buttons, there was nothing to save there. The fun and strategy came from elsewhere. When they bulldozed the early game, I rejoiced or said nothing. It was just a bunch of buttons, there was nothing to save there. The fun and strategy came from elsewhere. When they bulldozed the technology tree, I rejoiced or said nothing. It was just a bunch of buttons, there was nothing to save there. The fun and strategy came from elsewhere. (…) Now I am left with chronic discontent and an arid game, I fail to see that history falters, I still don't want to listen to anything sensible and I prefer to blame my fellow gamers based on their race or style. Who am I? + Show Spoiler +In short, the SC2 crew was plagued with a common disease of the ill-named “modernity”: they thought backwards.
(…)
Plagued with the second common disease of “modernity,” short-sightedness, Mr. Viewer does not see that his short-term demands may spectacularly backfire in the future (see part I), fueling an “always more” drug-like logic, piling up artificial entertainment upon forced excitement in a rabid succession of blurry, shiny images. What will Mr. Viewer then do, once he's tired of the spectacle? He will say, “This game is shit” and sail away.
(…)
A third trait of “modernity” is that power in a given field tends to become increasingly intrusive because of hyper-rationalization.
(…)
Short-sighted users shall be jealous of “the shiny tools others get” and will ask Blizzard the same for “their camp,” failing to realize that they're completely falling into the oldest trap on Earth called “divide and rule”. People should instead unite and camp Blizzard's door so they have a playable RTS first. Otherwise, they will only get (1) an even worse game, (2) an even worse competitive scene, (3) an even worse balance. The “Liberator” sure has a prophetic name. How not to glimpse the very hand of fate in this saving unit? Hopefully it lives up to its name and frees us from the ignorance running rampant for years. Or no. Chains are better. Blaming Terran players and Zerg adepts and Protoss cheesers and X or Y is so much more fun. Clinging to irrelevant opinions for derisory gains is a brilliant strategy, the natural fruit of the superior minds forming the assembly of Starcraft experts. Sleeping is such a bliss.
Very nice. I don't agree with the bolded part, Sleep isn't a bliss when you are constantly waking up because of the nightmares that you read on these forums. LOL
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On May 22 2015 23:09 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2015 21:12 Muxtar wrote:On May 22 2015 20:33 LSN wrote:
Thank you.
Probably inbefore getting banned for giving opposition (or maybe being executed by flak??). lol
User was temp banned for this post. ROFL. This man is prophet. It confirms TL being terran fan-site. Good job guys. Nah, it is just that he is martyring himself and that is bannable by TL rules and standards, he isn't banned because of his last post that I mostly agree with. Show nested quote +On May 22 2015 21:48 royalroadweed wrote:On May 22 2015 21:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 22 2015 21:12 Muxtar wrote:On May 22 2015 20:33 LSN wrote:
Thank you.
Probably inbefore getting banned for giving opposition (or maybe being executed by flak??). lol
User was temp banned for this post. ROFL. This man is prophet. It confirms TL being terran fan-site. Good job guys. No. Martyring yourself results in a ban, and that's what he did. It's in the TL Commandments. It has nothing to do with the validity of his claims. I"m surprised he not permabanned tbh. All of his posts are consistently balance whine or personal attacks. He isn't perma-banned because his posts make a lot of sense, unlike majority of Terran whine-posts here that are miserably failing to explain why splitting Mech ground and air upgrades is "bad" idea, and when you try to tell them why it should be that way they attack you with stupid design comparisons like "You don't need to make 8 factories as Zerg, lol, that's why we need less upgrades!" which is a complete nonsense and doesn't have anything to do with attack and armor upgrades of both races. Majority of Terran players here are not even getting the whole picture and why races need to function differently, and are just picking parts of their race and compare them to the parts of enemy race that suits them, or do some other nonsense like comparing SC2 Terran to the Brood War Terran, ignoring all of other differences and changes that happened between these two games and saying how it should work that way.
Theres a difference with saying "stupid oracles OP shit, blizzard dont want terran to ever win" wich is a balance whine and thus could be argued to saying "TL is full of terrans even mods are terran all terrans are whiners terrans ruin the game" thats just complaining about stuff outside the game, what can you argue about that reasonably?
Its like if I said "all people who play videogames are greasy nerds" theres no way to have a conversation with someone like that? If we count his premise as truth then no terran could ever have an opinion because it would just be "terran whine"
Wich is funny btw, while posters have always argued about how terran always whine no such is commonly said about other races, is almost like an argument people use when they don't have actual points, why try to make a valid.point about the design when you can just call everybody a terran whiner? That should work right?
People are so caught in this racial war, what is the fucking point? What do you gain? At some point the game WILL be balanced but will it be FUN to play? If every body keeps denying changes becase some stupid racial conflict then the game won't go nowhere.
Discuss changes to the game, thats what matters, what is good what is bad, the fact that people talk so much about these changes makes it look that they just care about balance and I'm afraid LotV will just become HotS 2.0
Or we could just talk about TL being a big terran conspiracy, now thats constructive
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^ Very good post here.The negativity and racial bias in the community is a real letdown. I think the gaming experience in general would much more benefit from more positive thinking.
Also I really wanna see the new Unit in action.Don´t have beta access yet. Guess I have to grind more ladder games so I get a chance for an Invite.
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So
Terran stole corsair
Mech/structure are just fixs.
About geyser, it's about time......
For Roach, i hope Tunneling Claws are T1 too. Otherwise its again a half done deal.....
And for last, Missile turret back to normal byt not yet at 75 minerals......
I dont know yet about swarm host but apart from fixing old issues it's just a terran buff....
So LOTV= 2 races game?
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Protoss must be the best designed race, It is the only conclusion I can get from the lack of changes in the race since the beginning of LotV beta.
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LotV: The Glorified Balance Patch
Even though Blizzard said that this beta will last far longer than a normal beta, these sort of changes are just simple patches as if the fundamentals of the game are already set in stone. None of the big, necessary design changes like we hoped for. Or, at least, any leeway with what was initially done. Design first; balance later.
Nevertheless, I hope ranked play and a revamp of the menu are coming soon. I hate to agree with many others, but it really does not seem like Blizzard put/is putting much effort into LotV, considering the changes they have made (technically and balance-wise) do not take that much.
Blizzard's actions are so contradictory. They claim a long beta to test things, but they do not really test things to the level of the final expansion.
Please make SC2 a great game with this expansion. Don't have the content attitude that gives us the current "good/decent enough" one.
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On May 23 2015 00:06 kiLen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2015 21:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 22 2015 21:12 Muxtar wrote:On May 22 2015 20:33 LSN wrote:
Thank you.
Probably inbefore getting banned for giving opposition (or maybe being executed by flak??). lol
User was temp banned for this post. ROFL. This man is prophet. It confirms TL being terran fan-site. Good job guys. No. Martyring yourself results in a ban, and that's what he did. It's in the TL Commandments. It has nothing to do with the validity of his claims. It does say a bit about the validity of his claims. Saying that he was martyring himself is a big overstatement and does in fact prove that the ban hammer is easily swung when you have posted posts like the one he had. Martyring yourself is not equal to joking about getting banned or executed. A fair treatment would probably have been a warning if it is such a fragile subject to joke about getting banned. On the other hand people posting " YEA FUCK TERRAN BIO ULTRAS SHOULD BE A FREE WIN " does not even give a warning? Even though this posts contains explicit language and contributes nothing to the discussion?
LSN was just temp banned for 2 days by KadaverBB.
That account was created on 2010-12-10 21:55:13 and had 350 posts.
Reason: We automatically ban for martyring, posting "inb4 ban" will get you banned 99% of the time
No, it was actually just because of martyring.
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On May 23 2015 00:22 SC2John wrote:
Can't imagine them doing a better job than their cheaper and immune-to-irradiate cousin, the cyclone. Tbh, I'm not sure how the Liberator fits into Terran design at all.
Replaces Thors with bio and is imo blizzard's intended solution for bio to deal with lurkers because they don't attack ground units, they attack ground. That means you can kill lurkers in known locations without detection.
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On May 23 2015 01:33 purakushi wrote:
LotV: The Glorified Balance Patch
Even though Blizzard said that this beta will last far longer than a normal beta, these sort of changes are just simple patches as if the fundamentals of the game are already set in stone. None of the big, necessary design changes like we hoped for. Or, at least, any leeway with what was initially done.
Nevertheless, I hope ranked play and a revamp of the menu are coming soon. I hate to agree with many others, but it really does not seem like Blizzard put/is putting much effort into LotV, considering the changes they have made (technically and balance-wise) do not take that much.
Blizzard's actions are so contradictory. They claim a long beta to test things, but they do not really test things to the level of the final expansion.
Please surprise me.
That's the feeling I get. My feeling is that they're working on Overwatch, HOTS, and Casualstone now so they don't have the internal resources to fix Starcraft's extensive flaws. But I guess I just don't have much faith in Blizzard anymore, the last game they made that I actually respect is Warcraft 3. If Starcraft wasn't such an awesome game I would have forgotten about it and Blizzard years ago.
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On May 23 2015 01:04 Lexender wrote:
Or we could just talk about TL being a big terran conspiracy, now thats constructive
To be honest, I always thought the majority of the TL staff played protoss. I'd be a liar if I said I didn't think Terrans were marginally more whiny than the other races but it's not new or offensive. I don't know where this TL.net Terran bias theory came from.
In regards to the patch,
I opened stargate in PvT and tried some two and three base carrier to see if I could bait out some liberators, no such luck. They are actually in the game now, yeah?
One Terran built BC's in the late game, and playing against the wormhole thing was pretty fun but the 50 energy recall seems to mean I can take laps around the map at my leisure cleaning up stranded BC's and all the teleporting got fucking ridiculous after a while.
I don't think those two mechanics gel very well, as an initial impression.
Edit: ok duh, patch isn't live. Thank you 
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Italy12247 Posts
So much for a beta with lots of drastic changes...
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On May 23 2015 02:46 robopork wrote:
I opened stargate in PvT and tried some two and three base carrier to see if I could bait out some liberators, no such luck. They are actually in the game now, yeah?
One Terran built BC's in the late game, and playing against the wormhole thing was pretty fun but the 50 energy recall seems to mean I can take laps around the map at my leisure cleaning up stranded BC's and all the teleporting got fucking ridiculous after a while.
I don't think those two mechanics gel very well, as an initial impression.
No patch is not live yet, so no Liberator.
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On May 23 2015 03:01 Teoita wrote:
So much for a beta with lots of drastic changes...
Where did Blizzard even promise that? I know that hope springs eternal, but it's safer to assume that the beta is longer because the development team is smaller and Blizzard doesn't want the beta to interfere with development of HOTS and other games. And because they want to make sure that the economy change won't wreck the game.
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On May 23 2015 03:01 Teoita wrote:
So much for a beta with lots of drastic changes...
I can't help but to quote myself from the April 27 balance patch thread. Funny how people said I was talking out of my arse.
On April 29 2015 19:38 dust7 wrote:
Blizzard is playing this too safe. They said the Beta would be long and a time of massive changes and experimentation, but all I see is minor tweaks. They have already entered the stage of trying to find the "correct place" for now predetermined units, their abilities, the economy and other major game aspects (like warpgate).
For example, there is zero chance for units that are in the beta right now being removed again. With the exception of the terran unit to come, they decided on the set of units before the beta (when they actually removed the herc).
SH, Tempest, Thor, etc. will stay.
There is also zero chance for community inspired changes to units and abilities at this point because those are not playing it safe enough. In years of reading TL I saw nobody suggesting another high range unit from the starport or more armor for the ultralisk. Community participation in the design of the new terran unit is an illusion.
There is zero chance for a redesign of warpgates and zero chance for any economic model that is much different from the current one.
It hurts so much to witness the last Starcraft there will ever be to become a pretty good game when it could have become a timeless classic.
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On May 22 2015 18:11 alexanderzero wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2015 17:44 Muxtar wrote:On May 22 2015 16:39 Herecomestrouble wrote:
You're clueless, Zergs don't need to build 8 barracks + addons to go bio nor 8 factories + addons to go mech, these buildings cost money and gas JUST TO GET THEM! and they can be killed ocationally Zerg does need to build bases (at least one more than terran + macro) and queens, and not forget to make injections every ~40 sec in order to keep production. Terran just can spam E button if he forgot to call mules in time and be done with it, but this won't work for Zerg. And Zerg does need to spread creep between those bases (at least) in order to keep his whole army in one place (which is necessary vs. mech). And those bases can easily be harrassed or destroyed (hellions, hellbats, banshees) - and don't you dare to speak about spines/spores - it is just laughable vs ~5 cloaked banshees with +1 attack (at least) or blue-flames hellions/hellbats, who just annihilate all drones in 5 sec if Zerg does not react ASAP. Mech terran in the late game can sacrifice nearly all his SCVs and go full ~190/200 army supply with mules behind, which Zerg can not allow to do. So your whine has no solid ground beneath it. I think that you are missing his point. The investment required for a tech switch is so high for Terran that it is almost never feasible to do so. The difference between bio and mech is a base full of barracks or factories, as well as the relevant upgrades. The difference between ultras and brood lords is having an ultralisk cavern or a greater spire, because zerg produces all their units from the same structure. Protoss has a similar advantage due to warp gate, though not to as large of a degree. EDIT: and while the discussion of macro mechanics is more or less irrelevant to this point, I would like to mention the downside of Terran macro. Zerg has the ability to pool larva over time, giving them the ability to rapidly spend the money that has banked up during that time. Protoss is also somewhat more forgiving when players miss production rounds, since they can immediately warp in reinforcements to a battle, which somewhat lessens the pain because enemy reinforcements may not have arrived yet (but this is nullified in PvP). Terran, on the other hand, can never recover the lost opportunity cost of a missed production round. When Terran players miss a round of production, they cannot catch up with a player who is macroing correctly until a battle happens. I don't think Blizzard should balance around those kinds of failures to begin with, though. Still, play Terran and you'll see that it's not as easy as "drop mules, huge army."
Every race have their strong points, if a terran want the pros points of play protoss or zerg, then play protoss or zerg, the same for zerg or protoss about terran strong points, if u can enum the pros and cons of playing every race, then gona see that every race have their disanvantages to, personally i think terran is the race that after u get good mechanics, you can beat almost anyone.
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I don't know what to think anymore. This game needs major changes and I feel like Blizzard is doing some fine tuning. They are doing evolutionary steps, when they need a revolution.
The game is in fucking beta. I don't know why they are so afraid of breaking something. Just change stuff and see how it works. If it doesn't work, who cares ? It's beta. Just try ideas. The most uneventful and sad beta in the history...
It's almost like they gave up.
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I think the new unit sounds stupid. Terran is already a complete race imo, there's nothing more to add. They definitely don't need any more counters to mutas though. Ling/muta is the only style left in this game that is entertaining.
The turret change is fine. If anything spores should require an evo also.
These small changes are disappointing and don't really fix the problems with the game.
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On May 23 2015 06:19 hitpoint wrote:Terran is already a complete race imo, there's nothing more to add.
TvZ Bio still has absolutely nothing to tech into past tier 2 Medivacs, 5 years after the game's release.
"Complete race."
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any in-game preview of the liberator somewhere?
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EPT
